LeeG

"Front entry switch wiring looks normal; red, white and black wires. Garage configuration has two black wires and one white." The Red, Black, White wires in the entry box are all connected to a standard 3-way switch? Are these three wires in the same cable? Does the 3 wire cable run to the garage box or the light fixture? Are you comfortable measuring voltage on the various wires? If you have an ID on the Smarthome forum Stu of Stusviews was an practicing electrician in a past life. He is very good at guiding folks having trouble converting 3-way wiring to Insteon. Conceptually the Insteon switch at the garage box and the Insteon switch at the entry box must have unswitched 120v power. That means the normal 3-way wiring to the entry switch has to be retasked to provide unswitched 120v power. Depending on whether the Red/Black/White at the entry switch is in the same cable and depending on whether that cable runs to the garage box or the light fixture dictates how this is done.

Another option is to trigger with the 'action' instead of the 'reaction' If Control ‘KPL 3’ is switched Off Or Control ‘KPL 4’ is switched Off Then Set KPL Button 1 Off. Else

"if I do this program, does this mean that if the garage lighting is off, and motion is detected, it will do everything in the then catagory?" Only if the 'Office: Garage #3' remains Off. If the Scene affects the Status of this device the statement(s) after the Wait will be bypassed. A change in 'Office: Garage #3' Status causes the Program to be triggered again which cancels the current Wait and evaluates the If again. Should the If be False the Else clause runs. "what happens the second time (say within a few minutes) I walk around the garage? Does it mean when it detects motion the second time, because garage#3 light is turned on, that all the then things will be ignored?" If 'Office: Garage #3' was turned On by the Scene it caused the Else to run effectively terminating the Program. The next motion triggers the Program again but since the 'Office: Garage #3' is now On the Else is run because the If is False.

Repeat goes before the statement(s) to repeat. All the statements to the next Repeat or the end of the clause are repeated. Repeat 1 times Set Scene 'Outside' On Repeat 0 times Wait 25 minutes Repeat 1 times Set Scene 'Outside' Off It would be just as easy to code Set Scene 'Outside' On Wait 1 second Set Scene 'Outside' On Wait 25 minutes Set Scene 'Outside' Off Wait 1 second Set Scene 'Outside' Off There is approx 1 second wait for each Repeat iteration. I added a Wait above on the theory that if there is noise from an appliance starting up it will be of short duration

From November 20 through December 31, 2012, according the the UD web site

Insteon has no concept of Scene Status so each switch of interest has to be checked individually. If Status 'switchA' is Off and Status 'switchB' is Off and Status 'switchC' is Off and so on. Then Set Scene 'kpl button' Off Else Set Scene 'kpl button' On Note that Secondary KPL buttons cannot be controlled with a Direct command. Assign the Secondary KPL button as a Responder in a Scene and turn the Scene On or Off

Secondary KeypadLinc buttons have to be controlled with an ISY Scene. Define a Scene, adding the KPL button as a Responder. Turn the Scene On/Off from the Program. The Insteon Direct command does not have a placeholder for a button number making it impossible to control a Secondary button directly.

I doubt the ISY is too busy. However, it is true that the first example is triggered when the Status of 'Utility Room / Util Hall Load 12.6A.EE.1' changes and 'Climate' Light changes. Since these values are important only if motion is sensed putting them in a second Program that is Disabled will stop the Program from triggering on these changes.

ELA/someguy That will work. The Simplehomenet Utility Suite (free download from SHN web site) has the capability to read specific link records by number. Number 1 would be the first link record, Number 2 would be the second link record, etc. All zeros in slot 1 and 2 would suggest a PLM that has been factory reset. Actual data in some of the locations would need evaluation to see if it looks like the remains of a valid link record that has been corrupted. The ISY does not directly address any link record in the PLM. It gives the PLM a link record and directs the PLM to update the existing record or add a new one if not found. Besides other users not seeing this, the fact that the ISY updates existing link records is another reason it is hard to see how the ISY would be the cause. Even deleting a PLM link record is a logical request to the PLM through the Serial interface. The ISY has no direct contact with the link records themselves in a PLM. All physical link record access is done by PLM firmware/hardware.

In the early days of the Venstar thermostat Smarthome declared the ISY responsible for a series of issues related to the Insteon interface. They were just as sure, just as positive then as the individual at Smarthome talking to you now. Of course they were wrong. Because many people use the ISY of course the symptoms appeared with the ISY first. Eventually the same symptoms appeared with users who did not use an ISY. Hard to continue to blame the ISY when the users did not have one. Eventually SmartLabs built free replacement units with several fixes and RMAed the defective ones. Of course that does not help with what you are encountering. Only that just because they say ISY is responsible does not mean it is. They do not have a good track record.

I tried various REST calls without success. The PLM is not in the nodes list but I tried using the PLM address anyway. The REST call fails. I was thinking there might be another application involved that interacted with the powerline that could reach the PLM that way. There are few other REST calls I want to try that are not node specific. I have a very old 2412SH PLM that came with one of the first HouseLinc Desktop releases many years ago. It routinely loses its link database so I know it does happen but this thing is ancient. It still functions as a good powerline interface so I keep it around for test purposes. I’ll continue to look for some way to explain the behavior but at this point I don’t have any good theories. Seems odd that two PLMs would have the same issue. Just as odd that the ISY would be responsible as this would affect anyone running an ISY. That’s why I was looking outside the normal environment.

Correct. There is a Run at Startup option that can trigger the Program when the ISY boots but a Program with an empty If clause has to be 'Run' from another Program

The SmartLinc does not have a separate PLM, it is all contained in the single shell. The SmartLinc cannot be used as a substitute for a 2412S or 2413S Serial PLM

Need to know if the devices in the First Floor All Scene are defined as Responders or Controllers. If they are Responders they are controlled by some other device, Scene or themselves. Adding the KPL button as a Controller will have no affect on the KPL button LED as the other devices are Responders. If there are other Controllers in the Scene any time those Controllers turn On or Off they are controlling the First Floor All Scene which will affect the KPL button LED. Without knowing all the details of the First Floor All Scene I think it will require ISY Programming to accomplish what you want. You could assign the KPL as a Controller of the First Floor All Scene and set the KPL button to non-toggle Off mode. Any time the KPL button is pressed it turns First Floor All Scene Off without concern for the current state of any of the Scene Responders. This gets the Scene devices Off but does not have the KPL button LED as an indicator that any were on to begin with. That requires ISY Programming.

Thanks for that additional information. That sure makes it look like the PLM lost the link database. Difficult to see how that is happening on multiple PLMs. The ISY would have to issue a Serial command to reset the PLM. Conceptually possible but that would be so obvious to anyone using an ISY as all Scenes would stop working and all device driven Programs would no longer function. Is there any other application involved that could communicate with the PLM over the powerline? It would have to be over the powerline as nothing else has access to the Serial interface unless the PLM is shared with another application.

The single Program approach turns the Scene Off any time the garage light sends a Fast Off. The original requirement was to turn the Scene Off if Morning Trail is active AND there is a Fast Off. The single Program approach does not consider Morning Trail when reacting to the Fast Off. If the Morning Trail condition does not matter the single Program approach is best. If Morning Trail being active is important the single Program does not satisfy the requirement.

Add it to the Scene as a Controller. The ISY assumes the device is also a Responder if the device has Responder capability.

The 02 69 command is a request for the first link record in the PLM. The 15 response either means there are no link records or the PLM does not like the 02 69 command. Since the 02 69 is the correct command it looks like the PLM has no link records. It could also mean the PLM is hung up with the last command and will not accept a new command. It will be interesting to see if the PLM works correctly after a power cycle without actually doing a Restore. The RC stands for Release Candidate. If the image is stable (no major bugs) it will become the next Official release.

Use a second Program to turn the Scene Off. Using one Program requires the If Condition to be False to drive the Else Clause. It is difficult to generate a positive control multi condition If that drives the Else clause. Too many If condition combinations result in a False evaluation If Status 'Master Bedroom / Master Bedroom-B' is On And Control 'garage light' is switched Fast Off Then Set Scene 'Morning Trail' Off Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

Moving the Motion Sensor to the PLM location has solved the comm problem where the motion sensor did not respond to the query insteon engine. Now the ISY does not like the cat/subcat the device is reporting. Run Tools | Diagnostics | Event Viewer at LEVEL 3. Run another New INSTEON Device and post the event trace so we can see what cat/subcat the old v1 motion sensors are reporting.

Next thing would be to move the Motion Sensor closer to the PLM (assuming 2413 Dual Band) so that RF range is not in question. Also that the Red LED is blinking confirming the Motion Sensor has been put into linking mode prior to clicking Ok on New INSTEON Device. That error message indicate the motion sensor did not respond to the engine query command which is the first command attempted (RF range or not in linking mode).

Thanks for additional information. Lots of us are running v.99 PLM firmware. I doubt many stayed at 3.3.3, 3.3.7 (RC4) was just announced. If I might suggest the next time running Tools | Diagnostics | Event Viewer at LEVEL 3, then invoke the Show PLM Links Table. Cannot tell for sure if the PLM link database is empty or just failed to respond to the PLM Get Next request. If the PLM did not respond to the Get Next response it may only need a power cycle rather than a full restore. The Event Trace should show how the PLM reacted.

Turning On/Off an individual device with Insteon Direct commands has no affect on other devices that may be in a Scene with that device. Normal Insteon response. Only that specific device is affected. To control all the devices in a Scene turn the Scene On/Off. "Media_popcorn_sl has no load it is controller of scene Media_popcorn_sc, Media_Popcorn Media_popcorn_sl is responder to the Media_popcorn_sc, and Media_Popcorn" The SwitchLinc only needs to be in the Scene as a Controller. The ISY assumes the SwitchLinc is also a Responder and does all the necessary cross-links. EDIT: what may not be obvious regarding Insteon devices, when a button/paddle is pressed a Scene is being controlled, assuming the device is in a Scene. Except for HA applications using a PLM, Insteon devices are incapable of issuing Insteon Direct commands for control of another device.

We all are baffled. Are there other products being used that communicate with the ISY? That Program counting paddle presses does not in and of itself serve much of a purpose. There has to be some other factor, some other product, something that is involved here that has not been identified.

Unfortunately SmartLabs has not developed a product that makes analyzing this type of symptom easy to find. It is usually a process of elimination. Start by disconnecting all the pluggable loads. Does the Scene Test run any better? Are there CFLs on the same circuit which can be temporarily unscrewed/removed, things like that. Since the Scene Test is intermittent it makes a good test tool to see if things improve after making some changes.