LeeG

It depends on the firmware in the KPL. Are non-toggle mode KPL buttons in the Scene the only buttons that are not responding as you want them to and if so what results are you seeing. Example: On sent to non-toggle Off button but does not turn On or perhaps Off sent to non-toggle On button and it does not turn Off. Generally KPL buttons in non-toggle ON mode are On to indicate they are in non-toggle On mode and non-toggle Off buttons are Off to indicate they are in non-toggle Off mode. Not at all sure what the KPL firmware is going to do at all firmware levels if you try to override what non-toggle mode LEDs are normally displaying. I can run some tests but it is likely going to vary by KPL firmware level. Older KPLs used the actual LED state (On or Off) to control whether a non-toggle mode button would issue an On command or an Off command. They moved the non-toggle mode On/Off command control into KPL memory at some KPL firmware level. I have some old KPLs where LED On/Off state affects the commands issued. Later KPLs do not seem to be affected by the KPL LED state but I’ve not tried to track what happens if you try an override the normal KPL LED operation.

Let me set up a theoretical configuration ... KPL A button C KPL B button D KPL C button Main (8 button KPL) KPL D button ON/OFF (6 button KPL) SwitchLinc E SwitchLinc F SwitchLinc G When all of these have been added as Controllers of Scene X and the Scene information has been successfully written to all the device involved, pressing any button of the above KPL buttons will toggle all other button LEDs On and Off (assuming the buttons are all in Toggle mode) as well as changing all SwitchLinc status On or Off consistent with the KPL button that was pressed. Pressing any of the SwitchLinc paddles will do the same thing. Is your configuration like the above (number of KPL buttons and SwitchLincs not withstanding) and if not what is the difference. Did you code any ISY Programs that may be affecting any of the KPL or SwitchLinc LEDs. Programs are not necessary for the configuration I documented above. If you have Programs, please disable them so they are not having any effect on what should be basic Insteon device to device control. Thanks Lee

PGME Perhaps providing a detail explanation of the setup, KPL x button y for each KPL, SwitchLinc z, etc. and what type of device (dimmer versus relay) and what type of load (incandescent , CFL, low voltage LED, etc). In that context, what do you press and what result do you see that is not what you expect/want. It sounds like you are describing a situation where a SwitchLinc will not completely turn Off the physical load it is controlling? What is the main Off switch if not the paddle (air gap/Set button ?)? Lee

Teken I am assuming you are talking about an additional PLM, beyond the ISY PLM connected to Port A. The ISY does not support additional PLMs. Lee

PGME All KPL buttons and/or SwitchLinc paddles involved in the Scene should be added to the ISY Scene as Controllers. The ISY assumes all Controllers are responders and will cross-link the devices so all KPL button LEDs and SwitchLinc LEDs will stay in sync. Lee

timdenike Easy part first. Define an ISY Scene. Add the KPL button(s) and SwitchLinc(s) as Controllers. That is all that is required. The ISY assumes Controllers are also Responders taking care of all the cross linking between devices. When a device is responding to a button/paddle press because of a left over link the problem is normally in the responder device, not the device where the paddle/button is being pressed. Deleting the link from the Controller does not stop the Responder from reacting unless you also delete the link from the Responder. I posted a response to your question on the Smarthome forum regarding what I thought the best approach would be for starting the ISY configuration. I still think the best approach is resetting the devices and adding them from scratch with meaningful names. You now have a list of all the device address. I would have expected to see multiple Scene xxxx entries listed below the devices in the My Lighting tree after adding devices keeping found link records. Lee

polexian The switch interaction that turns the OutputLinc On (monitors On) and then immediately turns it Off is hard on monitor electronics. A KeypadLinc installed where you now have the SwitchLinc would allow positive control over the light and allow use one of the KPL Secondary buttons for positive control of the OutletLinc. Another approach to avoid cycling the monitors needlessly would be to use different commands from the SwitchLinc. A single tap On or Off turns the lights On or Off. A double tap (which generates a Fast On or Fast Off) is detected by an ISY Program which turns the OutletLinc On or Off. The double tap will also turn the lights On or Off. With this arrangement the OutletLinc (monitors) turn On only when a specific double tap SwitchLinc action occurs. Starting from a SwitchLinc Off and OutletLinc Off state, a double tap would turn the OutletLinc On as desired but it would also turn the lights On. This would require a single SwitchLinc Off tap to turn the lights Off if only monitors were desired but something is going to have to cycle trying to use one paddle for multiple functions anyway. At least with this approach the OutletLinc (monitors) would turn On only when a double tap is issued. I think the KeypadLinc is a better approach because it insures positive control over each load. If a solution is needed within the existing hardware installed the double tap to control the OutletLinc would avoid undesirable power cycling of the monitors. Lee

The latest 2.8.7 RC3 is best (unless there is a later 2.8.x when you start using the SHN device). You will need one of the 2.8.x releases. These are the only images which correctly identify the size of the (internal or external) PLM memory. This information is needed to insure link records are read/written at the correct location.

jdbaker I prefer to get my SHN devices directly from SimpleHomeNet. The latest firmware is always sent and they handle the warrantee. The EZIO6I will work. You will need a 5V power supply to use Inputs 5&6 in digital On/Off mode. The EZIO6I provides 12V DC which you can use as input to a 5V well regulated power supply. Inputs 1-4 are opto-isolated which can be used either with dry contact switches/relays or a DC voltage source up to 30V DC. The EZIO8SA will also work. Support for the EZIOxx family of devices (EZIO6I, EZIO8SA, etc) was added at ISY 2.8.1. The EZIO8SA has the same 1-4 opto-isolated inputs as the EZIO6I. Inputs 5&6 require the same 5V as the EZIO6I ( except the EZIO8SA provides the 5V DC rather having to build a power supply - THIS IS WRONG INFORMATION - THE EZIO8SA PROVIDES 12V - IT IS THE EZIO2X4 THAT PROVIDES 5V DC). Also the EZIO8SA has 7 Inputs that can be used in digital mode. As far as using an EZIOxx Input with the IR, an ISY Program can test the Status of an EZIOxx Input which will have some On or Off Status to represent the 12V from the audio equipment. If the expected Input Status does not represent the existence of 12V you would repeat whatever sends the IR command again. Lee

oberkc That is good information. Several of my KPLs are vintage where the LED state On or Off determines whether the non-toggle mode button sends On commands or Off commands. In the beginning some folks took advantage of that and changed the non-toggle mode on the fly by changing the LED On/Off state. When the KPL firmware was changed to move the non-toggle mode On/Off to internal memory some were disappointed and frustrated. That is what happens when an unpublished characteristic is exploited. The technique you used with the Program If also works if multiple responders were being controlled. All the Responder Status not Off conditions could be ORed together so if any responder is On button A would be On. Only when all responders are Off would button C be On. Hardly a day goes by where I don't learn something new about how use to the ISY. Thanks again. Lee

Tom That is a more complex problem to handle. It will take some ISY Programs to accomplish that LED behavior. Some older KPLs use the LED On/Off state to determine non-toggle On versus non-toggle Off. Newer KPLs no longer have that specific dependency but I'm not sure if changing the LED On/Off pattern would have other effects. Essentially the Programs would be looking for specific commands from each KPL button, On, Fade Up, Fade Stop from KPL button A and Off, Fade Down, Fade Stop from KPL button C to determine the state of button A and C LEDs. The Fade Down Fade Stop is also a challenge as the final responder Status will have to determine if the Fade Down actually turned the responder off versus just dimming the level. There is no such thing as a Scene Status. If the KPL button LED pattern can be achieved it will represent only one responder. A Fade Down could turn Off some responders and only dim others. Just depends on the Bright level of each responder when the Fade Down is started. Will be an interesting set of Programs. Lee EDIT: I started out with the assumption that multiple responders would be controlled by KPL buttons A and C. oberkc Program is really a very simple answer that should work just fine if changing the KPL button LEDs has no adverse effect. Thanks oberkc!

jdbaker Welcome to ISY. How are you interfacing the 6 input IO module to Insteon/ISY? A Motion Sensor Program might look like this ... If Control Motion Sensor is On Then Set Flood Light On Wait 3 (minutes) Set Flood Light Off Else nothing If a new Motion Sensor On command is received during the 3 minute wait the program is restarted from the beginning, skipping the Set Flood Light Off and establishing a new 3 minute wait. Same question about the 12V detection. How are you planning on interfacing the 12V signal to Insteon/ISY. You might want to look at something like a SimpleHomeNet EZIO8SA for interfacing the 12V signal and maybe the Motion Sensors depending on what the Motion Sensor is using to signal motion. A Smarthome I/O Linc can be used for an individual condition. This may require a 12V relay between the 12V source and the I/O Linc Sensor. The I/O Linc has one Sensor input. The EZIO8SA has 7 Inputs. The EZIO8SA is more expensive than an I/O Linc but supports 7 inputs compared to the one input for an I/O Linc. Lee

ingeborgdot For the East Counter SwitchLinc, RemoteLinc button 1, KPL Downstairs button A and KPL Kitchen button A to all control and all show On/Off status in sync, define Scene A. Add East Counter SwitchLinc, RemoteLinc button 1, KPL Downstairs button A and Kitchen button A as Controllers of Scene A. Do not define any explicit Responders for Scene A. The ISY assumes a Controller is also a Responder. If any of these paddles/buttons is pressed all devices will respond in sync. The RemoteLinc button number and the KPL button letters are arbitrary. They can be any button number or letter you chose. If the ISY will not allow any one of the above buttons/paddles as a Controller of Scene A it is due to the fact that a given button/paddle can be a Controller of only one Scene. A given button/paddle can be a Responder in many Scenes but can control only one Scene. This is Insteon, not ISY. For West Counter SwitchLinc, RemoteLinc button 2 and KPL xxxx button B, define Scene B. Add West Counter SwitchLinc, RemoteLinc button 2, KPL xxxx button B as Controllers of Scene B. Again, no Responders explicitly defined for Scene B. All devices are assumed by ISY to also be Responders, if capable (RemoteLinc for example cannot be a Responder which the ISY takes care of automatically). Pressing any of these paddles/buttons will control all the devices in Scene B in sync. I made some assumptions. If this is not the desired configuration please give specific details on switch names, button letters/numbers, etc. so we can work up another scenario. Lee

tdmarra Another approach, besides the one Michel described, is to set KPL button A to non-toggle On mode and KPL button C to non-toggle Off mode. When button A is pressed it always sends an On command to the responder linked to the button. Pressing button A will turn On the responder. Pressing and holding button A will cause the responder to ramp up. Button C will always send an Off command. Pressing button C will turn Off the responder. Pressing and hold button C will cause the responder to ramp down. That will give to desired responder result. May not give you the KPL button LED response you want. If you describe what you want the KPL button LEDS to do perhaps that can be worked into the scenario. Lee

ingeborgdot Sounds like you defined a Scene where the KPL button is a Controller and the SwitchLinc is a Responder. The light (load) is connected to the SwitchLinc so when the SwitchLinc paddle is pressed On and Off the light turns On and Off. With the KPL button as a Controller of the SwitchLinc as a Responder when the KPL button is pressed On and Off the SwitchLinc responds by turning On and Off. This arrangement so far does not have the SwitchLinc as a Controller with the KPL button as a Responder. This is required to have the KPL button LED turn On and Off as the SwitchLinc paddle is pressed On and Off. Insteon devices must be linked in both directions, known as cross-linking, for each device to stay in sync with the others actions. This cross-linking is very easy to establish with the ISY. Define one Scene, add both the SwitchLinc and the KPL button as Controllers of the Scene. The ISY assumes a Controller of a Scene is also a Responder if the device has responder capability. After the Scene information has been written into the KPL and the SwitchLinc, turning On/Off the Scene from either device will cause the other device to follow. Lee

lazarow When you say nothing happens, you mean the Event Viewer popup does not display (in which case a delete of the Java cache is a good place to start) or the Event Viewer does not trace Insteon traffic (in which case Brians question is important)? Lee

What KPL button is involved and is the button turning On another Insteon device? That is, when you say you turn on the light controlled by the KPL button are you turning On a different Insteon device. If this is the case the KPL button does not come on automatically when the other device is turned On. You have to define a Scene where the other device and the KPL button are responders. Turn the Scene On and both the device physically controlling the light and the KPL button will light together. Of course if the button is the KPL load button (Main in 8 button mode or ON in 6 button mode) then the problem is something else.

kaplansa Thanks for all the data. I just love it when I get such great information. All six commands issued to 13.E1.AC are failing to get any response from the TriggerLinc. Any chance that is not the Insteon address of the TriggerLinc or linking mode expired. Whatever the cause either the device is not receiving any command or the device is not responding with an answer or that answer is not making it back to the powerline. I think the v92 PLM is a Dual Band PLM plus you indicate there is an Access Point close by. No way to tell from the Event trace where the command flow disconnect is occurring. If you trigger one of the Motion Sensors do you see Insteon commands from the Motion Sensor in the Event Viewer trace with Device Communications Events selected. If they do appear in the Event trace then we know that RF is working in general and it is specific to the TriggerLinc (bad address, device failure to respond even though in linking mode, etc). If neither the Motion Sensor nor the TriggerLinc generate Insteon message traffic then a general RF failure has occurred somewhere. Lee

The 200000 error message does not explain why that message is issued. Being an RF device perhaps there is now some RF issue or the battery is weak in the TriggerLinc. Works for simple On/Off messages but not strong enough to handle linking mode which puts more drain on a weak battery. Try a new battery and if that does not help, bring up the Event Viewer and select Device Communications Events, Then do the device add. The trace may show something if it is an Insteon command that is failing. Since there are problems with Motion Sensors and TriggerLincs there may be a common RF problem with one of the Access Points or other Dual Band device. I have Motion Sensors and TriggerLincs defined and have had no errors after updating to 2.8.7. I have not tried to add a new TriggerLinc however.

The error list does not say anything useful about a 200000. Did you put the TriggerLinc into linking mode before removing from a Scene. The TriggerLinc will normally be asleep.

The flashing Red LED in the Motion Sensor indicates a Responder device that is linked to the Motion Sensor is not responding to the motion message. If the motion sensor is linked only to the ISY and a Program is turning a Scene On/Off in response to motion then the links in the PLM are suspect. If the motion sensor is directly linked to a SwitchLinc with an ISY Scene it could be the links in the SwitchLinc or the links in the ISY PLM. You can do a Show Device Links Table or Show PLM Links Table and look for a Responder motion sensor link. It will start with an A2 (first byte), have a Group number of 01 (second byte) and have the Insteon address of the Motion Sensor. A Restore Device or Restore Modem (PLM) can be used to restore any missing links.

Illusion I picked up the Load Controller a few months ago when Smarthome had a 15 or 20% sale. Established a set of replacement switches for the house in case of failures. Picked up the Load Controller on a whim. It might be an older firmware (v3A) than yours. Clearly something is not stable in the demand load sensing independent of whether it works when the load control relay is energized or deenergized. Do you remember what the firmware level is on the one you are returning? Lee

I have some objective information and some positive results using a Load Controller NC. Each type of Responder, what I’ll call a normal Responder, a Scene 1 Responder and a Scene 2 Responder are assigned different Groups. Normal Responder – Group 1 – turns On/Off as Load Controller turns On/Off Scene 1 Responder – Group 2 - turns On/Off as load demand turns On/Off Scene 2 Responder – Group 3 – was not able to generate any condition that caused a Group 3 command This means that if/when the ISY supports Scene x Responders two additional nodes will be required. One that reacts to Group 2 and one that reacts to Group 3. Like a tstat adaptor with 3 Controller only nodes (heat/cool/fan) in addition to the primary node, except the Load Controller would have two Controller only nodes in addition to the primary node, Scene 1 and Scene 2. My Load Active LED follows the load demand On/Off and as the load demand turns On/Off a Group 2 On/Off command is sent to the Scene 2 Responders. However, this only works when the Load Controller is not supplying main power to the load. Since this is a NC Load Controller, the state of the load control relay is opposite to the NO Load Controller which may explain why load demand sensing works only when the load control relay is not supplying main power. This point is surely going to generate various opinions. I’m not suggesting this current approach is the correct approach. Only that it is the way it is working today. There are times when the load demand sensing stops responding. Both the Load Active LED stops changing and the Group 2 commands stop flowing. This seems like a bug in the firmware or maybe the demand sensing circuit. To restore load demand operation I have to turn the load control relay on and off a few times with the load asking for current. Turning the load control relay Off so the load turns Off and then turning the manual switch on the load Off so there is no more demand the Load Active LED turns Off and Group 2 command flow Is reestablished. Things associated with demand load work for several minutes, as long as 15 minutes a few times, following the manual load switch state on the actual load. Eventually the Load Active LED and Group 2 commands stop requiring the procedure I just described to restore demand load sensing operation. The paper tag on the Load Controller shows v1.0. The firmware level of the Load Controller is v3A lawr1000 From all my testing so far the Load Controller reliably turns the load On and Off in response to commands from the ISY. It should be fine for controlling the actual water heater.

robandcathy Taking one at a time the 2456S3 at the top of the post answered the Query correctly. The Fast On and Fast Off received a NAK. Did you try Michel's suggestion and plug a load into the 2456S3. Michel indicated some of the devices respond with a NAK if there is no load connected. This does not look like a general powerline communication problem. Lee

The I/O Linc Sensor can be wired to either be On when the door is closed or On when the door is open. The SmartLinc garage door kit comes with a magnetic switch that has both NC and NO switches built in. Depending on which switch you chose to use depends on the state of the I/O Linc Sensor when the door is closed. If you have a magnetic switch that is only NO or only NC and the I/O Linc Sensor is operating opposite to what you want, there is an I/O Linc option the ISY can set called Trigger Reverse which reverses the On/Off command relationship to the Sensor On/Off state. Normally when the Sensor turns On it sends an On command, and when it turns Off it sends an Off command. The Trigger Reverse option reverses that. When the Sensor turns On it sends an Off command and when the Sensor turns Off it sends an On command. You can get whatever commands you need. The problem with trying to use a single KPL button is that the button LED represents whether the KPL button is On or Off and whether the door is open or closed. You can do what you want but I was never comfortable knowing whether the KPL button LED was telling me if the door was open or closed or that the KPL button was On or Off. With ISY Programs you can do it and others have.