LeeG

Illusion I picked up the Load Controller a few months ago when Smarthome had a 15 or 20% sale. Established a set of replacement switches for the house in case of failures. Picked up the Load Controller on a whim. It might be an older firmware (v3A) than yours. Clearly something is not stable in the demand load sensing independent of whether it works when the load control relay is energized or deenergized. Do you remember what the firmware level is on the one you are returning? Lee

I have some objective information and some positive results using a Load Controller NC. Each type of Responder, what I’ll call a normal Responder, a Scene 1 Responder and a Scene 2 Responder are assigned different Groups. Normal Responder – Group 1 – turns On/Off as Load Controller turns On/Off Scene 1 Responder – Group 2 - turns On/Off as load demand turns On/Off Scene 2 Responder – Group 3 – was not able to generate any condition that caused a Group 3 command This means that if/when the ISY supports Scene x Responders two additional nodes will be required. One that reacts to Group 2 and one that reacts to Group 3. Like a tstat adaptor with 3 Controller only nodes (heat/cool/fan) in addition to the primary node, except the Load Controller would have two Controller only nodes in addition to the primary node, Scene 1 and Scene 2. My Load Active LED follows the load demand On/Off and as the load demand turns On/Off a Group 2 On/Off command is sent to the Scene 2 Responders. However, this only works when the Load Controller is not supplying main power to the load. Since this is a NC Load Controller, the state of the load control relay is opposite to the NO Load Controller which may explain why load demand sensing works only when the load control relay is not supplying main power. This point is surely going to generate various opinions. I’m not suggesting this current approach is the correct approach. Only that it is the way it is working today. There are times when the load demand sensing stops responding. Both the Load Active LED stops changing and the Group 2 commands stop flowing. This seems like a bug in the firmware or maybe the demand sensing circuit. To restore load demand operation I have to turn the load control relay on and off a few times with the load asking for current. Turning the load control relay Off so the load turns Off and then turning the manual switch on the load Off so there is no more demand the Load Active LED turns Off and Group 2 command flow Is reestablished. Things associated with demand load work for several minutes, as long as 15 minutes a few times, following the manual load switch state on the actual load. Eventually the Load Active LED and Group 2 commands stop requiring the procedure I just described to restore demand load sensing operation. The paper tag on the Load Controller shows v1.0. The firmware level of the Load Controller is v3A lawr1000 From all my testing so far the Load Controller reliably turns the load On and Off in response to commands from the ISY. It should be fine for controlling the actual water heater.

robandcathy Taking one at a time the 2456S3 at the top of the post answered the Query correctly. The Fast On and Fast Off received a NAK. Did you try Michel's suggestion and plug a load into the 2456S3. Michel indicated some of the devices respond with a NAK if there is no load connected. This does not look like a general powerline communication problem. Lee

The I/O Linc Sensor can be wired to either be On when the door is closed or On when the door is open. The SmartLinc garage door kit comes with a magnetic switch that has both NC and NO switches built in. Depending on which switch you chose to use depends on the state of the I/O Linc Sensor when the door is closed. If you have a magnetic switch that is only NO or only NC and the I/O Linc Sensor is operating opposite to what you want, there is an I/O Linc option the ISY can set called Trigger Reverse which reverses the On/Off command relationship to the Sensor On/Off state. Normally when the Sensor turns On it sends an On command, and when it turns Off it sends an Off command. The Trigger Reverse option reverses that. When the Sensor turns On it sends an Off command and when the Sensor turns Off it sends an On command. You can get whatever commands you need. The problem with trying to use a single KPL button is that the button LED represents whether the KPL button is On or Off and whether the door is open or closed. You can do what you want but I was never comfortable knowing whether the KPL button LED was telling me if the door was open or closed or that the KPL button was On or Off. With ISY Programs you can do it and others have.

I have not completed my Load Controller test bed as yet. Got distracted with another problem and also found I did not have a 240V On/Off switch in my scrap pile. Have everything in hand now and will have that set up today. I see your point about the difference between the Load Controller controlling a normal Responder versus controlling Scene 1 and Scene 2 Responders based on the state of the load On/Off. I will link up responders for all three conditions and see what the Load Controller is using to differentiate a “normal†Responder from a Scene 1 and/or Scene 2 Responder. Yesterday I was pretty sure there was no support for Scene 2 Responders. Now I’m pretty sure there is no support for either Scene x Responders. Much more objective results later today.

robandcathy First, immediately unstack the units. They cannot dissipate heat buildup when that many units are back to back. You will cook the one in the middle. Okay to stack two total although that is not recommended by Smarthome. Plug in the PLM, then piggyback one unit into the PLM, Run Event Viewer with Change level 3 - Device Communications Events. Run a Query and then an On/Off sequence and post results. Lee

Sorry I was not able to resolve the problem. I think the problems start when the popup with instructions and the Finish button do not display. The ISY and the PLM are in linking mode which is interfering with other functions you are trying to exercise, ie PLM Info, which cannot be done while the ISY and the PLM are trying to detect Insteon devices that have their Set button pressed while in linking mode. It looks like various things are not working when I think it is limited to the fact that Linking mode is active with no visible sign (beyond PLM LED blinking) the Start Linking function was selected. If you want to pick this up in the future I would start with a different browser, perhaps IE, and see if the popup comes up when selecting Start Linking. EDIT: Now that we know it is Vista, is this a 64 bit system. I think I saw a post where both 32 and 64 bit Java has to be installed on a 64 bit machine. I thought it was in the context of Windows 7 64 bit but it may also apply to Vista

ingeborgdot Define an ISY Scene. Add the KeypadLinc button and the RemoteLinc button as Controllers of the Scene. The ISY assumes a device is also a Responder if the device has responder capability. Once the Scene is created either the KeypadLinc button or the RemoteLinc button should control the KPL load. If that was not the desired effect please add some additional information. Thanks. Lee

Okay, great. Once the PLM is put into the mode where it is listening for a device to identify itself (Start Linking) it may not be able to handle other functions. Lets look at what is happening if we stay within the scope of Start Linking. The PLM LED should be blinking and a popup is displayed with instructions to press the Set button on an Insteon device, then click Finish. What happens when you do that. I personally prefer to go the other way. Select New INSTEON Device, enter the device address, name and use Auto Discovery. Might try that approach as well.

Sorry you are having such difficulties. My ISY has been rock solid. UDI has a great warrantee if it turns out something is defective. Was it purchased from UDI or some other source. If you bring up the ISY and do a PLM Info without trying the Start Linking function does the popup display showing Connected or Not Connected. Is the ISY PLM more than a few feet away from the PLM? What operating system are you using?

The other Insteon devices that have/had a Sense line to turn on the device do not have a separate node in the ISY device list. The Sense line is just another way of turning the device On and Off. I am setting up a test bed for my 240V Load Controller NC. There is only the basic node defined in the ISY. The Load Sense capability is just another way for the device to be turned On or Off. The base node can be used as a Controller or a Responder in an ISY Scene, just as a SwitchLinc or InLine Linc w/sense. The Responders linked to the Load Controller node using an ISY Scene would be considered Scene 1 Responders. I don't think the ISY has support for Scene 2 but that is not verified as yet. I linked a device to Scene 2 and can see that the Controller link record in the Load Controller generated by the Set button process is a little different but not sure I did the Scene 2 link correctly. The LED showed the expected color change at each step but the Quick Start guide called for a double blink which I did not get. Not sure if the device I linked as a Responder for Scene 2 was really set up for Scene 2 or just another Scene 1 Responder. I will post again when I have better information.

I unplugged my 2412 PLM, removed the Port A cable, plugged in an external power supply and brought the ISY back up without a PLM. The Power LED and RX LED are On solid which is the expected result when there is a PLM problem. The Tools | Diagnostics | PLM Info popup shows PLM not connected. Since you do not have the RX LED On and I think you said the PLM Info popup is not displaying I am thinking more along the lines of a Java issue (either Java level or cache not cleared) or Admin Console not at the ISY image level. What platform are you on and did the Java cache clear without problems. Nothing using Java can be active or the cache will not be cleared. How are you invoking the Admin Console. If you just enter the IP address of the ISY into a browser window do you get the basic ISY panel. If so try invoking the Admin Console from that initial ISY panel. The select PLM Info.

You are using an external power supply with the ISY? What LEDs are illuminated on the ISY? The PLM Info does not show Connected? There is no setup to the PLM. Simply plug it in. The ISY Port A to the PLM, the ISY Network port to the router, and an external power supply to the ISY power jack since it is a 2413 PLM. Nothing will work correctly until the PLM shows Connected.

Make sure the cables between the PLM and the ISY device are in the correct connectors. The PLM cable is installed in Port A and be sure fully clicked into place on both ends. Might try clearing Java cache as well. Not sure that can be related to PLM connection but it is a common directive. What type PLM are you using? EDIT: did the PLM LED start blinking when Start Linking was selected?

jzgersten Very sorry that did not resolve the problem. As you pointed out in the first trace two of the switches are not showing Insteon traffic and that continues to be the case in the second trace. That either means, as oberkc indicates, there are powerline communication problems that prevent family-rear and family-main switches from communicating with the ISY PLM or somehow the link records were not restored properly. Oberkc has provided good suggestions for identifying a powerline communication issue. There are two things I would like to verify if you are willing. Using Tools | Diagnostics | Show Device Links Table display the family-main switch you did a Restore Device for and confirm there is a link record pointing to the ISY PLM. It will look like E2 01 0F.9D.D1 FF 1F 01 This is a Controller link for a paddle press with the PLM address 0F.9D.D1 which should be your PLM address. The FF 1F 01 are information only and not actually used by Insteon. Then do a Tools | Diagnostics | Show PLM Links Table and look for the following …. A2 01 14.A2.4E xx yy zz The is a Responder link where xx yy is the New INSTEON Device, Device Type pulldown [xx.yy] value for the family-main switch, and zz is the family-main switch firmware level. The xx yy zz fields are information only. Insteon does not look at that information to generate a message to the PLM. The 14.A2.4E should be family-main switch Insteon address. If both of these link records exist then there is a powerline communication problem. If either of these link records is missing something has gotten lost in what ISY knows about family-main switch. Lee

jzgersten Great set of information. Thanks. So many times an Event trace is posted and we don't know the addresses of the devices we are looking for. As you concluded the two switches that are not triggering the Program are not showing activity in the Event Viewer. That explains why the Program is not triggering with those two switches. The first step is a right click on one of the switches under My Lighting, selecting Restore Device. The ISY will rebuild the link database in the specific switch. Now see if the Program is triggered by that switch or run the Event Viewer and see if the switch now generates Insteon traffic when the paddle is pressed. If that does not fix the switch, do a File | ISY Backup to get a take a current backup and then File | Restore Modem (PLM) to have ISY restore the PLM link database. Now repeat the switch test again. If the Restore Device resolves the problem the device lost its link records for some reason. If Restore Modem fixes it the PLM lost some link records. Did you replace your PLM recently? Lee

The 02 52 FF 80 (02 52) is the PLM primitive indicating an X10 message segment received from the powerline. There is no way to know the source of the X10 segment from the 02 52 PLM message. The FF byte looks like noise is a possibility. Shutting off breakers or unplugging devices is as good as any technique.

jzgersten If the symptom is still the two ICON Dimmers are not triggering the Program, run the Event Viewer with Change Level 3 - Device Communications Events. Press the paddle of either ICON Dimmer and see if there is Insteon message traffic from the ICON Dimmer. If not, likely a link record problem in the ICON Dimmer or the PLM. Both link records are required for the ISY PLM to be notified of a paddle press. Lee

Illusion An item just came up on the Powerhome forum with a similar situation. A light is turning On with no physical switch interaction. The trace shows the Group Cleanup was sent by the device (at least the PLM message would indicate that) but the initial Group Broadcast message is missing. Did you get any Event Viewer traces of your situation that showed actual device message traffic? I've asked what type of device and firmware level. Lee

Is the NTP server option enabled. Perhaps it is getting the time from NTP and the location is not yet been set to reflect your actual location.

Yes. The primary tstat node plus 3 more for receiving tstat notifications for heat/cool/fan events. That may not be the correct order of the event types to nodes

Paul Great news. Thanks Illusion. Be sure to go back to Automatic mode. That is the exact device I am using on 2.8.6 so you can expect things to work better if/when you upgrade. Lee

The level 3 trace shows the ISY did not actually issue a command to make the change. I guess at 2.7.15 the Event Viewer trace does not show all the activity but if that trace reflects actual events, nothing was actually written to the KeypadLinc. You can try what lllusion did, switch the link management mode and do the toggle mode change again, being sure to change the link management back to automatic regardless of the success or failure of the next button mode test. Another option would be to move to 2.8.6. Exactly what type of Keypadlinc and 6/8 button mode are you using. Another variable could be something different is done with a relay KPL versus the dimmer I am testing with. I don't think 6/8 button mode would matter but I will try that option if that is what you have.

The Midland WR300 is <$50 from several internet sites. I've been using it for 6 months with good reception and reliable alerts. Some times to reliable alerts. My geography is such that 4 counties ( 2 in state, and 2 out of state ) have to be covered with the SAME codes. The Midland radio has an internal alarm for alerts which is loud enough to wake out of a sound sleep. I think the external alert jack is supplying 12V DC during an alert which would directly trigger any of the EZIOxx devices opto-isolated inputs. If using an I/O Linc a relay would be required between the radio and the I/O Linc. I have not found it necessary to turn on lights but I like that idea.

I don't have the weather module so no experience with how real time or local the values are. The problem I see with that approach is lead time. By the time conditions have reached a point of concern it may be too late. Weather radios alert ahead of storms reaching an area. With SAME codes the alerts can be localized. My Midland radio has a jack for an external connection which triggers when an alert is issued. Connecting the radio to something like an I/O Linc or SHN device could provide the Insteon message with more time to react.