what is the effect of a failed device restore?

[sloop]

i talked with a guy in that group - seems there is only one person in the group that has made the insteon mistake - and he said they 'almost have him converted over' - might be the 12 step program i need to go cold turkey

[Guest]

yep - automated outlet - maybe i will attend one of the north texas user group meetings the guy told me about - i am sure any purchases i make in a moment of weakness will be from them - especially now that so many people that have purchased from smarthome have had strange charges to their credit card accounts - and smarthome won't release any statement about it

 

i have read good things about the way they handle problems - i bought some of my relays from home depot and evidently, they will have no warranty

 

i have most of my devices restored now - only 4 keypads left - the plm is on that circuit - and i am getting failures - i placed the signallinc on the circuit and they seem to be working now

 

i agreee that the setup process does lots of writing on the powerline - and the operation of scenes sends fewer commands - but like all insteon devices, its unreasonable to expect too much from them (like mack daddy scenes) - lol

 

So the same circuit that the PLM is on you got comm failures yet to other circuits you do not?

[sloop]

the plm is on the same circuit as the last 4 keypads - last night i started getting errors so i gave up - i tried again today and was getting the errors again (sometimes waiting until the next day helps - i guess) - so i plugged in a signallinc in the room (same circuit) and got one keypad done - the second one got an error twice - so i removed the signallinc and trying it again

 

i wonder if there can be noise from another house causing problems in my house - i don't have tons of electronics in the house - my pc equipment is on a filterlinc - my tv equipment is too - the verizon box is new since i had x10 but i have it on a filterlinc too - a/c and heat are off - all ceiling fans are off - i only have 2 fluorescent lights in my house but both are off and never caused x10 a problem

[Guest]

the plm is on the same circuit as the last 4 keypads - last night i started getting errors so i gave up - i tried again today and was getting the errors again (sometimes waiting until the next day helps - i guess) - so i plugged in a signallinc in the room (same circuit) and got one keypad done - the second one got an error twice - so i removed the signallinc and trying it again

 

i wonder if there can be noise from another house causing problems in my house - i don't have tons of electronics in the house - my pc equipment is on a filterlinc - my tv equipment is too - the verizon box is new since i had x10 but i have it on a filterlinc too - a/c and heat are off - all ceiling fans are off - i only have 2 fluorescent lights in my house but both are off and never caused x10 a problem

 

It is very easy to say noise is the problem for anything unexplainable. Some people supposedly have put a scope on the line and do not see noise but I personally have not done that since last summer. I should hook up scope permanently near the PLM and see what I see.

 

There may be more to this and there may not be......... I think time will tell.

[sloop]

you know on a mainframe i can run a trace and break out the meaning of every bit - even if i (ugh) have to work with routed networks, i can place a thunderbird on a circuit or a sniffer on a lan segment - i absolutely hate this mysterious guessing game with powerline communications

 

it seems to go - having problems? buy more craplincs - still having problems? buy buy buy and lower your expectations

 

now try filterlincs - now rewire your house so you can place x10 on an isolated circuit - now plug in $200 worth of ugly boosterlincs - now throw away houselinc and plc and boosterlincs and all the $5000 of x10 you have - now time device use among your family better to avoid collisions - now throw away your electronics and buy more - now burn down your neighbor's house and move yours over 3 inches - now lower your expectations

 

now buy a membership in our $200 secret club where we can ignore you - now rma, rma and rma - now stop insisting on answers to questions about the problems with our products - now buy the new firmware - now send in your old crap with more money and we will send back a 'refurbished' product that might do the task the original was supposed to do - now reset those keypads that went dark - now lower your expectations

 

now get your journeyman's license and the tools necessary to be an electrician - now get an electrical engineering degree and a phd in physics - now get a lobotomy - now lower your expectations

 

now pay your child support because your wife left you for inflicting insteon on her and her medical bills for the broken leg your kid got tripping over the fedex rma box because her high hopes combined with insteon were not enough to get the light on - now compose a 5 page e/mail that we can ignore and hope you forget about - now pee yourself because we fulfill our legal obligation to swap out one of our failed devices for another that will hopefully hang in there long enough for the warranty to expire even though you are the only one that has ever had the problem - now lower your expectations

 

now call your lawyer because you might have leaked some proprietary tidbit while trying to help some other insteon foo - now shut up and be happy that we are ignoring you diyers that bought our products while we focus on the 'really big accounts' - now replace all your devices with new ones that support the full protocol suite that you assumed you were getting when you bought the ones you have - now lower your expectations

 

now stop questioning all the charges from limassol to your credit cards - now stop asking where the updates are to houselinc - now take a system restore point on your pc because if you start our software it might update and screw up your pc - now stop insisting that we update our software for the devices we release - now lower your expectations

 

now stop insisting our support staff know the current state of our product line - now focus on hope instead of results - now watch the swinging pocketwatch while you are getting sleepier and sleepier - now get excited about our pretty catalog with its clay coated pages - now pee yourself again because we posted an announcement on our own forum about a new how-to video and some long overdue craplinc while we ignore the flurry of questions about the device - now lower your expectations

 

now stop expecting a warranty if you go outside the smart* family to buy our products - now give me your credit card number so you can send back one of our failed devices and look at the empty switchbox while waiting for a replacement and hope that your credit card info is secure - now lower your expectations

 

now go to outside vendors for help salvaging the investment you made in our products - and all your expectations will be exceeded

 

ima pen a poem - twas the life before insteon

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello sloop (or should I say pen poem?),

 

You forgot to mention:

Now, you have to get a plane ticket for someone from UDI to come over and fix all the problems!

 

Are the communications problems isolated to a finite number of devices or are they random and different devices?

 

How many SignaLincs do you have and how many AccessPoints?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Sub-Routine]

Hello sloop (or should I say pen poem?),

 

You forgot to mention:

Now, you have to get a plane ticket for someone from UDI to come over and fix all the problems!

 

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

You have to record that meeting!

[sloop]

that is what puzzles me - its not any particular area or devices that seem to fail - i just got my last device restored and will do some testing tonight - sometimes the signallincs cause errors but other times they help - sometimes they help for a time then start causing errors

 

i don't have any accesspoints - i have 4 signallincs - i have tried subroutinelinc's piggyback thing - but was never clear if the plm goes in the outlet and the signallinc plugs into the plm - or the plm is plugged into the signallinc - i have tried both ways - and without the signallinc paired with the plm

 

my guess was that i would use one signallinc with the plm, one in the kitchen or utility room, one in the dining or living room and one upstairs - i did the blink blink thing setting them up but i can't tell if its better with or without them - i do know that sometimes removing one (or more) improves the communication - i suspect heavy use of them causes them to have problems

 

i think of them as room accessories because they are usually sitting on the floor near an outlet - this post inspired me to find one that went awol - when i have a guest i usually kick them under some furniture or put them in the garage - maybe some gold leaf and a glaze applied.....naw - the bling would probably void the warranty

 

i wish there was a phase copuler like the x10 dryer plug phase coupler - but that would mean insteon would have to remove the (somewhat deceptive) 'mesh' topologony marketing hype

 

anyway - i got all the restores done - right now i have one signallinc in the kitchen and one plugged into the plm - these are on the two different phases

[Michel Kohanim]

sloop,

 

We have to solve the puzzle! May I humbly suggest 4 AccessPoints? You can trade your SignaLincs for AccessPoints and thus we can remove yet another variable in your environment.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

that is what puzzles me - its not any particular area or devices that seem to fail - i just got my last device restored and will do some testing tonight - sometimes the signallincs cause errors but other times they help - sometimes they help for a time then start causing errors

 

i don't have any accesspoints - i have 4 signallincs - i have tried subroutinelinc's piggyback thing - but was never clear if the plm goes in the outlet and the signallinc plugs into the plm - or the plm is plugged into the signallinc - i have tried both ways - and without the signallinc paired with the plm

 

my guess was that i would use one signallinc with the plm, one in the kitchen or utility room, one in the dining or living room and one upstairs - i did the blink blink thing setting them up but i can't tell if its better with or without them - i do know that sometimes removing one (or more) improves the communication - i suspect heavy use of them causes them to have problems

 

i think of them as room accessories because they are usually sitting on the floor near an outlet - this post inspired me to find one that went awol - when i have a guest i usually kick them under some furniture or put them in the garage - maybe some gold leaf and a glaze applied.....naw - the bling would probably void the warranty

 

i wish there was a phase copuler like the x10 dryer plug phase coupler - but that would mean insteon would have to remove the (somewhat deceptive) 'mesh' topologony marketing hype

 

anyway - i got all the restores done - right now i have one signallinc in the kitchen and one plugged into the plm - these are on the two different phases

[IndyMike]

Hey Sloop,

 

It occurs to me that you are making things overly hard for yourself by including too many controllers in your scenes.

 

Let's start with your Guest Bath scene:

 

Guest Bath:

LP Guest Bath: Controller

GBathS Guest Bath Lamp: Responder

GBathS Guest Bath: Controller

GBedP Guest Bath: Controller

Guest Bath Sink: Responder

GBedO Guest Bath: Controller

OO Guest Bath: Controller

SO Guest Bath: Controller

LO Guest Bath: Controller

 

7 controllers in a guest bath??? No I know things are "bigger" in Texas, but this thing must be huge. Even so, I'd wager you couldn't swing a dead #$% (small 4 legged furry creature) without hitting many of them. Can you make do with fewer?

 

The reason I ask is due to the time that it takes to program the links in multiple controllers. The following is a comparison of "scene programming times" for a 9 device responder scene vs a scene similar to yours above. The times shown were measured on my system with no communication errors.

 

 

The above shows a "scene programming time" of 100 seconds for 9 responders. By comparison, your guest bathroom scene took me 10X as long to program (1035 seconds) with no communication errors.

 

I take a bit different approach to scenes:

• 1) None of my scenes has more than one controller. My 3-way installations (2-controllers) are divided into two separate scenes with one controller each

• 2) Large scenes (I have one with 58 devices) have no controllers. I use programs to trigger the scene instead.

The above results in much quicker programming and changes (ramp rates/levles) for my scenes. It also allows me to specify any device as a trigger without messing with link tables.

 

In my experience, I've had more trouble with dumping link tables in KPL's than I've ever had with the PLM/ISY.

 

Now for your "Mack Daddy Scene" - 120 Devices, with 107 responders and 13 controllers.

• 1) Using time of 15 seconds per link, I estimated that it would take roughly 7 hours to program this scene. If you have any communication problems that will stretch.

• 2) If all 120 devices were responders, the same "scene" would take roughly 30 minutes to program (again assuming no errors). Activating this scene would then require PLM/ISY trigger control.

I understand your desire to get all of your Insteon devices linked so that your scenes can operate without PLM/ISY Intervention. In a perfect world everything should work as you've set it up. It isn't, and it just seems like you're really beating yourself up trying to get there.

 

Open to a change?

 

IM

 

Footnote - Dude, you have more patience than anyone I've ever known.

[Illusion]

IndyMike,

 

I think that in the second chart you mean 7 controllers not 4?

[IndyMike]

Illusion,

You'd be thinking correctly. Darn higher math tripped me up again.

 

Thanks for the correction,

IM

 

IndyMike,

 

I think that in the second chart you mean 7 controllers not 4?