Thermostat recommendations

[mountainman3520]

Hello mountainman3520,

 

Thanks so very much for the details. Quite enlightening!

 

On Venstar thermostats (depending on the firmware) ISY can set the time and there's a command for it in the programs. On 2441TH, unfortunately, such facility does not exist. I am so very sorry.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

Hi Michael.

Thanks for the reply, and for the support of the 2441TH. So far you've included all the main, most important functions, even if a few are missing. It's allowing my system and programs to work great. Maybe put others like the time on your upgrade list?

 

A few related questions, I guess more general programming questions:

- How does the isy resolve slightly overlapping conflicting programs? Example: if time is between x and y, variable=1 and if time is between y and z, variable=0. What happens at time y? Which program wins? Will programs like this run reliably or is it better to make sure no conflicts exist by shifting the times off by a minute?

- When using times, you have a choice of "same day" or "next day" etc. I have programs that are set to run until 12AM. Technically this is the next day but I have the same day option checked and it seems to be working as the same day, ie the program isn't running for an extra 24 hours. What is the isys definition of same day vs 12am? I realize I can avoid creating this uncertainty by ending my programs at 11:59pm and then it's clearly same day.

- I have programs that use the date and run annually based on date. It looks like your date functions always require day month year, ie I couldn't figure out how to specify Oct 31 every year. Instead I had to make a long chain of oct 31 2013 or oct 31 2014 or .... am I missing something? If there isn't a way to specify the 4th of every month (month and year are don't cares) or every Oct 31 (year is a don't care), then please add this to your upgrade list.

All the date and time triggers should allow fields to be set as don't cares in some nice consisted way.

Thanks

-Dan

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi mountainman3520,

 

My pleasure. I will have to defer the answer to these questions to higher authorities!

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Chris Jahn]

Hi Dan,

 

- How does the isy resolve slightly overlapping conflicting programs? Example: if time is between x and y, variable=1 and if time is between y and z, variable=0. What happens at time y? Which program wins? Will programs like this run reliably or is it better to make sure no conflicts exist by shifting the times off by a minute?

A single event can cause many programs to start running, and when this happens you cannot determine the order in which the programs run.

In your case:

- At time y / variable = 1, your 1st program will run 'Else', 2nd will run 'Else'

- At time y / variable = 0, your 1st program will run 'Else', 2nd will run 'Then'

 

- When using times, you have a choice of "same day" or "next day" etc. I have programs that are set to run until 12AM. Technically this is the next day but I have the same day option checked and it seems to be working as the same day, ie the program isn't running for an extra 24 hours. What is the isys definition of same day vs 12am? I realize I can avoid creating this uncertainty by ending my programs at 11:59pm and then it's clearly same day.

We generally treat 12AM as morning (i.e. a day is 12:00:00AM to 11:59:59PM), but I think its better to use 11:59PM or 12:01AM to avoid any confusion.

 

- I have programs that use the date and run annually based on date. It looks like your date functions always require day month year, ie I couldn't figure out how to specify Oct 31 every year. Instead I had to make a long chain of oct 31 2013 or oct 31 2014 or .... am I missing something? If there isn't a way to specify the 4th of every month (month and year are don't cares) or every Oct 31 (year is a don't care), then please add this to your upgrade list.

All the date and time triggers should allow fields to be set as don't cares in some nice consisted way.

Unfortunately, you aren't missing anything; this feature has been requested for awhile and just needs to be prioritized above all the high priority items

[mountainman3520]

One question I do have is that the clocks on the 2441s drift a lot. Note that I don't use these clocks for anything since the isy controls the thermostat set points, and I'd turn the clocks off if I could, but I can't so it bugs me when they don't display the accurate time. I'd like to write an isy program to periodically set them to isy time, which is in sync with a time server. Anyone know how to view and change these other features of the 2441 from the isy?

 

Wow! I have to correct my comment above. Actually, the ISY DOES include a function to synchronize the 2441's internal clock with the ISY clock!! Its very cleverly named "synchronize clocks". I'm not sure how I missed it before. Maybe it was added in a recent software upgrade.

 

Anyway, I'm very pleased. I've now added a program that syncs the clocks of all my thermostats every day at 3am. Good work ISY hackers!

[johnnyt]

One question I do have is that the clocks on the 2441s drift a lot. Note that I don't use these clocks for anything since the isy controls the thermostat set points, and I'd turn the clocks off if I could, but I can't so it bugs me when they don't display the accurate time. I'd like to write an isy program to periodically set them to isy time, which is in sync with a time server. Anyone know how to view and change these other features of the 2441 from the isy?

 

Wow! I have to correct my comment above. Actually, the ISY DOES include a function to synchronize the 2441's internal clock with the ISY clock!! Its very cleverly named "synchronize clocks". I'm not sure how I missed it before. Maybe it was added in a recent software upgrade.

Does it actually work? In an earlier post Michel said that there was no facility to update time in the 2441TH. I ask because I was thinking of getting one but would want the clock to be updatable if it drifts quite a bit as I do plan to leave the stat in charge of doing the temp set backs most of the time, plus it's in a place where I do look at it for the time.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[LeeG]

It works on my 2441TH with v.0A firmware.

[barrygordon]

Where can I find information on using the Insteon 2441TH thermostat with the ISY994?

I am looking to effect complete control (setpoints (cool, Heat), modes (on off cool heat auto), fan (On Off Auto), etc.

I would like to get event notification for any and all changes including current room temp.

 

Just need a pointer to where this info is located.

 

TIA, Barry

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Barry,

 

I am not sure what type of information you are looking for. You do get all of those with ISY and 2441TH.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[barrygordon]

A simple example of a REST command to set a cooling set point, or the system mode ( heat, cool, off ) would help a great deal. I. Assume that if I make changes at the thermostat it will show up as feedback if I have subscribed to the ISY. If you provide an example just assume the thermostat has an address of 11.22.33

 

Thanks

[LeeG]

Example of setting Cool Set Point of 80

 

http://192.168.2.2/rest/nodes/1D 6C D6 1/set/CLISPC/160

http://192.168.2.2/rest/nodes/11 22 33 1/set/CLISPC/160

 

Example of setting Mode Heat

 

http://192.168.2.2/rest/nodes/1D 6C D6 1/set/CLIMD/1

http://192.168.2.2/rest/nodes/11 22 33 1/set/CLIMD/1

[barrygordon]

Thanks lee, that should get me started. I am sure I will be able to figure out the rest (no pun intended).

[barrygordon]

Okay, I found some of the documentation for the 2441TH, but naturally have a few questions

 

Node Command:

CLISPH, CLISPC

It appears that you must set 2x the desired temperature. I assume this is to allow for a setting +/- 0.5 degrees

 

CLIFS

What is the paramater? Numeric (0= off, 1=on; or string "On" or "Off")

 

CLIMD

Same question, what are the legal mode setting parameters (Cool, Heat, Off, On as strings or numeric values, and i numeric what value for what mode.

 

CLIHUM

I assume this will be a returned parameter being Humidity (0-100) with UOM being %

 

CLIHCS

Is this the reply for Mode? What are the possible values? String or Numeric?

 

CLIEMD">

This seems to be obvious ( 0 = Off, 1 = On)

 

Will a get command bring back the desired value e.g. http://192.168.2.2/rest/nodes/1D 6C D6 1/get/CLISPC

[LeeG]

Refer to the WSDK category in the forum. It has links to all the current developer documentation which includes all the REST options. The answers to all the questions are covered in the REST section.

 

 

Node Command:

CLISPH, CLISPC

It appears that you must set 2x the desired temperature. I assume this is to allow for a setting +/- 0.5 degrees

 

The thermostat interface is spec’ed to exchange temp in .5 degree increments.

 

CLIFS

What is the paramater? Numeric (0= off, 1=on; or string "On" or "Off")

 

7=On 8=Auto – there is no Off as that could damage the heating system

 

CLIMD

Same question, what are the legal mode setting parameters (Cool, Heat, Off, On as strings or numeric values, and i numeric what value for what mode.

 

Refer to the documents in the WSDK for the various values. Too many to repeat from memory

 

CLIHUM

I assume this will be a returned parameter being Humidity (0-100) with UOM being %

 

Yes

 

CLIHCS

Is this the reply for Mode? What are the possible values? String or Numeric?

 

Indicates if the HVAC is Off, Cooling, Heating (versus the mode)

 

CLIEMD">

This seems to be obvious ( 0 = Off, 1 = On)

 

Not familiar with this one

 

Will a get command bring back the desired value e.g. http://192.168.2.2/rest/nodes/1D 6C D6 1/get/CLISPC

 

Yes

[barrygordon]

Thanks for the assist. I believe I now completely understand it. I just have to write the code for the iPads to deal with it.

[barrygordon]

I have gotten to the point where I can successfully receive feedback from the 2441 thermostat and process them on my iPads. I notice in the ISY admin console there are commands for moving the setpoint up or down one degree. Are there equivalent REST commands to do exactly that or do I need to send a new ST value that is higher or lower by 1 to effect the change?

 

I noticed that all the variables of the thermostat state have CLIXX controls except for the room temperature. For room temperature the ST control return seems to show the value as opposed to some control such as CLITMP. Is this by design or an oversight? Also I do not see a control value for "Holding" which is a thermostat state.

 

TIA

 

Barry

[LeeG]

I did not find a REST command to move the SetPoint +/- 1.

 

CLImate

 

ST is STatus. – not a mistake – all the Insteon device primary state is stored in Status. Guess temp is considered the thermostat primary state.

 

My 2441TH does not have a Holding mode/state. What does Holding do?

[barrygordon]

on my 2441 which is sitting in a test rig, there is a button called "Hold" I assume (need to RTFM) it does what most thermostats have as a Holding option. The holding option will keep the current setpoints and not allow for any setback type programs to operate.

 

Generally used if you will be out of the house for several days and want to keep the house at a fixed temp, but not change any of the setbacks.

 

On my 2441, the button is there but when pressed makes no change to the display so I suspect you are correct in that it does nothing.

[LeeG]

The Hold button applies to Programs within the thermostat itself. The ISY has no support for defining/managing programs in the thermostat itself.

[barrygordon]

Thanks Lee. You have been very helpful

[RichTJ99]

So with the 15% off sale, is it worth getting the 2441TH? I keep reading about all sorts of weird problems.

 

2441TH @ 15% off = $127.5

[LeeG]

It is 15% off when purchasing $500 worth of equipment.

[RichTJ99]

Thats a good point, either way Nest being $250 & the older Insteon solution being over $200 makes me wonder if its worth a try, though I dont want the system to go haywire.

 

Really I am wondering if this is still a 'beta' product as people have been saying.

[arw01]

Black friday sale is normally 20% off on all insteon. Saving up for that one since all these other sales are just a tease.

 

Ecobee myself, commercial version and the EMS module as well.

[RichTJ99]

So I should pass on this one then. I keep hoping to see reviews saying its working properly. I am going to end up caving at some point & getting a wireless honeywell. The problem is I have a total of 6 thermostats that I need.