Vehicle detection and status

[arw01]

Anyone using some sort of device to track if a car is home or not home? Especially that the car just got home, which can be tracked a bit with a garage door, but that is not 100%.

 

I'm thinking something that would be tied into the ignition so when the car was started or turned off it would ping, or tied into the brake lights to ping whenever they go on or off, along with a heart beat type of function.

 

I recall seeing a hack for an x-10 keypad using a timer circuit. But wondered if maybe there was a bluetooth or zigbee device out there now that could be incorporated somehow to speak with the ISY.

 

Alan

[ELA]

Hello arw01,

 

I am not currently doing what you ask but a couple of ideas might be one of these :

http://www.smarthome.com/70422/Enforcer-Indoor-Outdoor-Wall-Mounted-Photoelectric-Beam-Sensor-with-35-Foot-Range-E-931-S35RRQ/p.aspx On sale so makes it attractive. It could be mounted just to detect the car inside of the garage in its final resting place. Might also detect people walking in the garage though.

 

Or a non contact infra-red thermometer to detect the cars engine heat. A unit with a relay output might get costly.

[arw01]

I had thought about something that was interrupted with the car in the garage, but as you noted, it would detect people, pets, the table we put up to paint something out of the sun, the crates from holidays stored in the garage while we take 3 days to put them all away or up.

 

That's why I was thinking a timer and some sort of tie in to get status of the car when it starts and stops. If you get an engine off notice then you KNOW the car is home, get an engine start and no heart beat in 5 minutes or whatever, then you KNOW it left.

 

I suppose just tying in a triggerlinc to a timer and the car electrical system with a drop down regulator would be a nearly inexhaustable power source for the triggerlinc check in every 5 minutes or less. Wanted the car off signal though to know that it just arrived if it's outside of that window, which most times it would be.

 

Thanks

 

Alan

[Xathros]

How about a Dakota Alert driveway sensor hung from above the car to detect when it is in the garage? Do these only detect a car moving past their fixed location or will they also detect a car parked over, or in this case, under the sensor? Otherwise, there are plenty of optical proximity sensors that could be mounted above the car and adjusted to detect the roof of the car.

 

-Xathros

[LeeG]

The Dakota Alert driveway sensor, the magnetic version, detects a change in the magnetic field. Once stable the sensor no longer trips. I use two of these, one at the mail box and one further down the drive. When the mail is delivered the sensor usually trips twice. Once as the carrier pulls up to the mail box and again when carrier drives away. The sensor is silent for as long as the carrier is stopped at the mail box.

 

There is an IR beam detector (not Dakota Alert) that is active the entire time the beam is broken. Most of the IR detectors trip momentarily when the bean is broken and then reset regardless of IR beam state. I looked into this years ago as I wanted to detect the physical presence of the vehicle in the garage rather than just that the beam tripped on entry or exit. Never did implement as the multi car garage presented problems detecting multiple vehicles.

[apostolakisl]

I found this

 

http://www.monnit.com/Products/Wireless ... ce-Sensors

 

I can't figure out what receives the 900mhz signal it sends however. The documentation is quite vague on that.

 

I was also thinking of a pad that one of the vehicles wheels would drive onto. This would close a connection which would trigger an IO linc. You could build something like that with a simple open/close circuit.

[Xathros]

That was why I suggested a proximity sensor mounted above the bay. I was just looking at a few at Mouser Electronics. For around $110 you can get an ultrasonic proximity sensor with a 20-150cm range and a NC or NO Transistor output that could be used to trigger an IOLinc or any other TTL input. I figure it could be mounted in/on the ceiling in the center of the bay and adjusted to watch for the vehicle roof. Optical Proximity sensors are cheaper but would likely be affected by the condition of the vehicle's roof (clean, dirty, wet, snow etc). Another option though somewhat expensive is medium range RFID. This would require an RFID antenna/reader in the garage and an active RFID tag on each vehicle. Might be able to use existing EZPass/FastPay Toll tags as in place of additional tags but for a multi car garage, this would require multiple expensive directional readers. There has to be a cheap way to detect a car sitting in the bay magnetically using the same technology used to detect cars waiting at a stop light but I haven't figured out the right search phrase for that yet...

 

 

-Xathros

[apostolakisl]

The one I listed uses magnetic field to detect the presence of the vehicle, not ultra sound. I only could figure that out because it lists all the sensing specs in units of gauss.

 

I did find how it receives signals. They sell "gateways". Unfortunately it looks like this is a subscription service that costs at minimum $39/year for them to send you texts or emails when the thing is triggered. You might be able to hack it? Hard to say. The usb gateway is $49 and the detector is $79.

[oberkc]

I wonder if one of those garage door opener safety sensors, in conjuction with an IOLinc and power supply, could be adapted for this purpose?

[apostolakisl]

I wonder if one of those garage door opener safety sensors, in conjuction with an IOLinc and power supply, could be adapted for this purpose?

 

Except that it can't tell the difference between coming and going, or even if it is just a person breaking the beam as they walk in or out.

 

If there were a wireless Insteon device that you could query, that would do the trick. Just put it in your car and connect it to the battery. Have ISY query it once every couple minutes, if it responds, then the car is there, if not, car is gone. The water detector might do that, but I don't think it is query-able.

[iostream212]

I am using this:

http://www.wirelesstag.net/

Still fairly new product to my setup but so far so good. Has a url calling feature on certain conditions, one of which is lost/made connections, which I use to run a REST command in Isy to change a vehicle status boolean.

 

 

Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk 2

[oberkc]

Except that it can't tell the difference between coming and going, or even if it is just a person breaking the beam as they walk in or out.

 

Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought the original request was to detect whether the vehicle was IN the garage, not whether it is coming or leaving. Still, if the sensor was off and suddenly turned on, I think one could reasonably infer that the car just arrived.

 

Obviously, a combination of sensors and logic would be required to ensure that it was a car, and not a lawnmower (or a person), but this is an issue not necessarily unique to this particular solution.

[arw01]

That might be a thought. A small inline inverter, a dual band micro-module with a tie into the run on the keys off the radio power or something right in that area of the fuse panel.

 

Then a dual band or access point out in the garage.

 

This would let you query it, would send a signal when the micro module was with sense function got 12v or didn't get 12v.

 

hmm.. off to look up small inverter with a little fuse on it..

 

hmmm

 

Alan

[apostolakisl]

Except that it can't tell the difference between coming and going, or even if it is just a person breaking the beam as they walk in or out.

 

Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought the original request was to detect whether the vehicle was IN the garage, not whether it is coming or leaving. Still, if the sensor was off and suddenly turned on, I think one could reasonably infer that the car just arrived.

 

Obviously, a combination of sensors and logic would be required to ensure that it was a car, and not a lawnmower (or a person), but this is an issue not necessarily unique to this particular solution.

 

 

Perhaps you meant that you would put the gizmo where the car normally sits instead of a couple inches from the door, where they normally are. Basically just an IR beam.

 

That would work, and I suppose you could write some program to ignore if it just briefly gets interrupted (like if someone walks through it) versus if it were continuously blocked for maybe a continuous minute. This actually might be the easiest way to do it if you are willing to accept the outside chance that something besides a car could block it long term.

[apostolakisl]

I am using this:

http://www.wirelesstag.net/

Still fairly new product to my setup but so far so good. Has a url calling feature on certain conditions, one of which is lost/made connections, which I use to run a REST command in Isy to change a vehicle status boolean.

[attachment=0]uploadfromtaptalk1372880556893.jpg[/attachment]

 

Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk 2

 

Interesting item.

 

Do I understand correctly that this product requires that you use their server to use it? If so, is there a subscription or is it "free" for anyone who buys the hardware? And also, are you sol if the company goes belly-up?

 

I have a couple of "chumby" items that are now pretty close to useless since they went belly-up.

[arw01]

I am using this:

http://www.wirelesstag.net/

Still fairly new product to my setup but so far so good. Has a url calling feature on certain conditions, one of which is lost/made connections, which I use to run a REST command in Isy to change a vehicle status boolean.\

\

 

So, does the tag manager that is on your local network make the rest call, or does their server make the rest call? How do you handle the security e.g. rest password?

 

I'm thinking I may go this route for the car detection and get a tag for my keys

[oberkc]

Perhaps you meant that you would put the gizmo where the car normally sits instead of a couple inches from the door, where they normally are. Basically just an IR beam.

 

That would work, and I suppose you could write some program to ignore if it just briefly gets interrupted (like if someone walks through it) versus if it were continuously blocked for maybe a continuous minute. This actually might be the easiest way to do it if you are willing to accept the outside chance that something besides a car could block it long term.

 

Yes, that is exactly what I meant. Perhaps a combination of two (aligned in such a way that only a car could block both, with some ISY program logic requiring both, along with a continuous minute, as you suggest. I don't think these are very expensive.

 

Other topic has explored the use of a cell phone as a surrogate for the car. Perhaps some type of logic such

 

if cell phone connected to the wifi

and garage sensor gizmo activated

and second garage sensor gizmo activated

then

do whateve

[ISYhbsh01]

I am using this:

http://www.wirelesstag.net/

Still fairly new product to my setup but so far so good. Has a url calling feature on certain conditions, one of which is lost/made connections, which I use to run a REST command in Isy to change a vehicle status boolean.\

\

 

So, does the tag manager that is on your local network make the rest call, or does their server make the rest call? How do you handle the security e.g. rest password?

 

I'm thinking I may go this route for the car detection and get a tag for my keys

You have the option to do it either way.

 

From their website:

 

"Meanwhile we have fully tested the URL calling feature, which now also lets user choose if mytaglist.com server calls the URL or the Ethernet Tag Manager calls the URL. The latter option will work even if the URL is using a private local IP address (such as 192.168.0.xxx, etc), or the REST endpoint is behind a firewall."

 

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

[arw01]

From their website:

 

"Meanwhile we have fully tested the URL calling feature, which now also lets user choose if mytaglist.com server calls the URL or the Ethernet Tag Manager calls the URL. The latter option will work even if the URL is using a private local IP address (such as 192.168.0.xxx, etc), or the REST endpoint is behind a firewall."

 

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

 

Now the final question, if you don't connect the tag manager to their service, or you prevent it from going outside your network to talk to their tag manager, does it still work to update on your local network? Or does it que up the messages like it said it would if the connection was lost and just sit and wait?

 

For 2 cars this would be $100 or so, three four cards only adds about $20 buck and shipping each.

 

what I was looking at with a power inverter and a micro module would run $70 a unit, but would be totally under ISY control. If I caught a true insteon sale I could do it for under $60.

 

I imagine you could remove the battery from the tag, solder in a voltage limiter and connect the thing up to 12v. The tag might even live on a 5 volt usb charger wired to the 12v car. Attach it to the cig lighter connections and wire it up under the dash..

[ISYhbsh01]

From their website:

 

"Meanwhile we have fully tested the URL calling feature, which now also lets user choose if mytaglist.com server calls the URL or the Ethernet Tag Manager calls the URL. The latter option will work even if the URL is using a private local IP address (such as 192.168.0.xxx, etc), or the REST endpoint is behind a firewall."

 

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

 

Now the final question, if you don't connect the tag manager to their service, or you prevent it from going outside your network to talk to their tag manager, does it still work to update on your local network? Or does it que up the messages like it said it would if the connection was lost and just sit and wait?

 

I am not sure about that. Currently it's not in use here so I can't test it. But I believe that without an internet connection you cannot even login to the tag manager. The way to login to the tag manager is thru their website. I don't think you can login to the tag manager directly.

 

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[ISYhbsh01]

From their website:

 

"Meanwhile we have fully tested the URL calling feature, which now also lets user choose if mytaglist.com server calls the URL or the Ethernet Tag Manager calls the URL. The latter option will work even if the URL is using a private local IP address (such as 192.168.0.xxx, etc), or the REST endpoint is behind a firewall."

 

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

 

I imagine you could remove the battery from the tag, solder in a voltage limiter and connect the thing up to 12v. The tag might even live on a 5 volt usb charger wired to the 12v car. Attach it to the cig lighter connections and wire it up under the dash..

 

According to their website the battery is supposed to last for a year under normal conditions, and you get an additional battery with the tag purchase. So I wouldn't bother.

 

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[arw01]

The battery section i was reading figured about 2 months, since I would have to query the tag fairly often.

 

Haven't decided which way to go, be nice to tag a few things I loose often and spend a lot of time looking for, but I wonder if the new bluetooth devices might be an option too.

 

Some good things in this thread for sure.

[iostream212]

You will want the frequent ping for vehicle detection. The highest setting is every 30 seconds. From what I have read the tag manager can be firmware updated to remove the cloud aspect. The downside is that the firmware is not able to be field updated and must be shipped back to the maker for updates.

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[arw01]

That would be a rub, you might want the cloud aspect until they go away, and then because you cannot upgrade it yourself, you cannot make the cloud go away since they went away, ironic.

 

Anyone pop one apart to see if it's a socketed eeprom and they just swap it out, or do they have special cables/software to talk to it that we would not have.

 

Really torn on this one, like the tag idea for a few things I loose, don't like the cloud for anything besides my keys off household premise. Get rid of the cloud and you cannot ping your keys out in the wild, but I suppose without the tag manager being in range that is a completely moot point now that I think about it.

 

I also like the idea of a micro module and an inverter since it's totally under ISY control and does not introduce more wall-warts into the house, another layer of non insteon hardware is not necessary with that plan. The cost is higher.

 

I also have thought about a rfid tag in the bumper and a receiver on the garage track or someplace close to the car, potentially very inexpensive, and probably very high on the reliability angle.

 

The old droid phone with tasker, wifi tracking, etc could be a viable option too and nearly without cost.

[ISYhbsh01]

The battery section i was reading figured about 2 months, since I would have to query the tag fairly often.

 

Oh you are right. The one year estimate is with the default ping time of every 30 minutes.

 

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