morgan4x4 Posted May 3, 2008 Posted May 3, 2008 I have a scene with a button on each of two different 8KPLs set as responders. They are the only devices in the scene. I use this scheme to modify the lit state based on various conditions and have never run into the following problem: When I alter the state of this scene "On" or "Off", the Dimmer that is linked to the button triggers and the lights go on or off. Now normally when an KPL button is set as responder and I trigger "on" or "off" the LED changes without impacting the actual Dimmer. This is the only case in my 40 or so scenes where this happens. I have tried "Restore" device on both KPLs and Dimmer - I have reset the Dimmer - Deleted and Rebuilt Scene. Any thoughts? Help!
IndyMike Posted May 3, 2008 Posted May 3, 2008 morgan, Allow me to recap to make sure that I have this correct - 1) You have 2-8 button KPL's with secondary buttons included in a scene. Both KPL's are responders in this scene.2) You have a 3rd dimmer that is linked to the KPL's, but the KPL's are responders.3) When you activate your KPL scene (no other devices in the scene) a linked dimmer (that the KPL's are responders to) turns on. If the above is correct (please verify) the following suggestions may/may not apply: 1) Check your log - If the ISY sees the dimmer turning on, you have a control link or program somewhere instructing it to do so. 2) If the ISY log does not show the dimmer activating, you may have a stray link in one of your KPL's. This can happen if you "imported manual links" when using the ISY linking rather than "replacing Links". Try factory resetting the KPL's and then restoring?? Question for Michel / Chris - does the restore function "restore" links that were imported? 3) If #2 does not work, you may need to delete one/both of the KPL's and rebuild. Obviously this is rather painful. To be honest, I'd wait for additional input from the "gurus" prior to taking this step. IM
morgan4x4 Posted May 3, 2008 Author Posted May 3, 2008 Sorry about the lack of clarity. Here are the scenes: 1) Study Recessed : ---Dimmer as Controller ---8KPL-Button D(1) as Controller ---8KPL-Button D(2) as Controller 2) Study LED: ---8KPL-Button D(1) as Responder ---8KPL-Button D(2) as Responder When Study LED scene is turned ON - The lights in the study go on. Thanks
IndyMike Posted May 3, 2008 Posted May 3, 2008 Morgan, Thanks for the clarification - it's crystal clear now. You're correct that activating the "LED" scene should not affect your dimmer (but you already knew that). Please check your activity log. If it shows your dimmer activating at the same time as your LED scene you may have a program that is triggering and commanding the device on. If there is no log entry for your dimmer, my best guess is a link that existed in one of your KPL's before you created your scene. I'm not sure if a "device restore" will eliminate this link (my previous question for Michel and Chris). If you're interested, there is a "Scan Z" utility that will show links in a given device. Try a search on Scan Z and Telnet on the forum. IM Sorry about the lack of clarity. Here are the scenes: 1) Study Recessed : ---Dimmer as Controller ---8KPL-Button D(1) as Controller ---8KPL-Button D(2) as Controller 2) Study LED: ---8KPL-Button D(1) as Responder ---8KPL-Button D(2) as Responder When Study LED scene is turned ON - The lights in the study go on. Thanks
morgan4x4 Posted May 3, 2008 Author Posted May 3, 2008 Phew - thought I was going crazy! I'll check the log, and look for the Scan Z Utility. Cheers!
rowland Posted May 4, 2008 Posted May 4, 2008 If you're interested, there is a "Scan Z" utility that will show links in a given device. Try a search on Scan Z and Telnet on the forum. IM SCAN Z is the command to list the link database of the attached PLM. To list the link database of a particular device use SCAN where has any leading 0 and all ".' removed. E.g to list the link database of the device 0A.17.E7 issue the command SCAN A17E7
Michel Kohanim Posted May 4, 2008 Posted May 4, 2008 Hello All, I just wanted to let you know that our next Beta release will include diagnostic utilities to read PLM and Device tables from within the Admin Console. With kind regards, Michel
IndyMike Posted May 4, 2008 Posted May 4, 2008 Rowland, Good catch - thanks for cleaning up my mis-information. IM SCAN Z is the command to list the link database of the attached PLM. To list the link database of a particular device use SCAN where has any leading 0 and all ".' removed. E.g to list the link database of the device 0A.17.E7 issue the command SCAN A17E7
morgan4x4 Posted May 12, 2008 Author Posted May 12, 2008 Appreciate all the advice, but still a bit confused and stuck trying to debug the problem. Having no luck interpreting the SCAN results, I decided to factory reset the 2 KPL's and Dimmer. I ran a restore on all 3 devices, but the problem remians. Can someone help me walk through the steps to diagnose and fix this problem? Would restoring the PLM help? Many thanks!
rowland Posted May 12, 2008 Posted May 12, 2008 Having no luck interpreting the SCAN results,.... Oh, I guess I left that part out. SCAN Z shows the contents of the PLM's link database. As such, it should show the same results each time it is run. If it shows a different number of entries on different invocations then you could be having the kind of problem that I had. So run it 4 or 5 times and see if you get the same number of entries listed. If not, you might want to check out http://forum.universal-devices.com/viewtopic.php?t=1188
IndyMike Posted May 12, 2008 Posted May 12, 2008 Appreciate all the advice, but still a bit confused and stuck trying to debug the problem. Having no luck interpreting the SCAN results, I decided to factory reset the 2 KPL's and Dimmer. I ran a restore on all 3 devices, but the problem remians. Can someone help me walk through the steps to diagnose and fix this problem? Would restoring the PLM help? Many thanks! Morgan, First - I'm assuming that your dimmer activates every time you activate this scene - correct? If that's the case we should be able to rule out noise "spontaneously" commanding the device on. If that is that case (you're not seeing device communication errors), please try the following sequence. 1) Please post your program. 2) Air gap both of your KPL's, and run your scene program (you'll get comm errors - don't worry about it for now). If your dimmer activates, you may have a stray link in the PLM (I've never seen this) or a second program triggering off of the KPL status change. Please post your results. 3) If #2 does not turn on the dimmer - enable one of your KPL's at a time and run your program. If the dimmer turns on with one of these devices "ON-line" it may have a stray link that was imported to the ISY (the reason the restore didn't work). Please post your results. 4) If enabling one of the KPL's causes the dimmer to activate, you will most likely need to delete the device, perform a factory reset, and totally rebuild your scenes and programs. Please post prior to doing this (it's a lot of effort). To be honest, I've never experienced the problem you are having. I have seen devices turn one due to stray X10 addresses (should have been eliminated by the factory reset). Your problem does sound similar to one encountered by UpstateMike back in Feb. That thread is located here: http://www.forum.universal-devices.com/viewtopic.php?t=900&highlight=ghost IM
morgan4x4 Posted May 17, 2008 Author Posted May 17, 2008 Finally resolved the problem. Tried air gapping each 8KPL one at a time, then modifying the LED only scene. Each time the light toggled. Air gapped both, and STILL the command to modify the LED state affected the light. Appeared that there was a stray link in the Dimmer, so I removed the device from the ISY, then added back after a factory reset. Worked like a charm. Thank for the help guys.
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