jmed999 Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 Some of you may remember me having trouble with Insteon wireless thermostats. The problem is I couldn't get them to send the temperature while on battery power (not AC) to the ISY admin console. I used the first one (V1.0) this way for months like this http://forum.universal-devices.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=9833 But it failed since it was on a screened in porch which was out of design conditions. So I ordered another one...actually I ordered 3 since I liked it so much. Well all 3 would link with the ISY but not send the temp. The humidity and setpoints would sync perfectly but not the temp. I called smarthome and they exchanged them with 3 more. Those wouldn't work either. They exchanged them again but those also didn't work. All the new ones were V1.1 so I just thought V1.1 wouldn't work with the latest ISY firmware. More on that here http://forum.universal-devices.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=11617 So I called SH last week and asked them if they had a new version and if the problem was fixed. They kept saying it wasn't a problem and that to get the temp to show up on the admin console it must be on AC power. I talked to 3 different people and they all told me it was impossible to get the temp to sync with the ISY while on battery power. The problem is the AC power wrecked havoc on my HA system http://forum.universal-devices.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=12039. Anyways, I knew the guys at SH was wrong since I had that 1st stat that would send the temp to the ISY for months perfectly. So they sent me 3 new stats and this time they were revision (not version) 1.2. They didn't work either the 1st time I linked them to the ISY. I tried to link them again but was doing it so quickly I forgot to press the stat's set button. It worked. The temp sync'ed perfectly. The difference was this time I didn't use "Auto Discover". I instead selected the Insteon (non-wireless stat). I also didn't press the set button on the stat. The bottom line is, if you "Add New Insteon Device", type in the address, and select the Insteon thermostat and do NOT press the stat's set button it will work! I now have 3 Insteon wireless thermostats that will send the temp to the ISY while on battery power (not AC). I hope this helps some of you all!
Michel Kohanim Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 Hi jmed999, Thanks so very much for the update. This is rather strange and thus let's give it a week before declaring victory! With kind regards, Michel
jmed999 Posted August 2, 2013 Author Posted August 2, 2013 Thanks for the reply! The first one has been working great for 3 days now. I'm stoked! Let me ask....when you select "New Insteon Device" do you normally need to press the set button on the Insteon device for it to link? I always have but for these to work properly it requires you not to press the button. It also requires you to select "[05.0B] (2441TH) INSTEON Thermostat" (which is not the correct device) instead of "Auto Discover". Thanks in advance for letting me know!
LeeG Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 For a battery powered device putting the device into linking mode with Set button is required. Otherwise, the device is asleep and cannot hear commands. How you got a 2441ZTH operating under battery power to add to the ISY and be able to have the necessary link records written is a mystery. When the primary node is selected what is listed for the device type on the right side line two?
jmed999 Posted August 2, 2013 Author Posted August 2, 2013 It's listed as a Wireless Insteon Stat. But It was added by selecting Insteon Stat (2441TH) non-wireless. Pressing the set button should be required but isn't. I have 3 stats to prove this. I could make a youtube video showing how I added these without pressing the set button if it would help.
LeeG Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 Thanks for the information. The ISY queries the Insteon Engine and device type during add so having it added as a 2441ZTH is expected regardless of what was entered in the Device Type field. A video would not answer the question of how the 2441ZTH is responding to commands when it should be asleep. How long had it been since any physical interaction with the 2441ZTH when the device was added to the ISY?
jmed999 Posted August 2, 2013 Author Posted August 2, 2013 I have done this on 3 stats and I would say they all had ineraction within 5 minutes of linking. The thing is, I have done this like 50 times and never would I get the temp to show up on the ISY unless I deleted the stat and relinked without pressing the set button. Videos will not solve the mystery but it will prove that it can be done. ie. The SH people still don't believe I got the temp to sync without AC power. Videos are coming....
LeeG Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 I believe you without seeing the video. Something is keeping the 2441ZTH awake during the add process. The question now is does the 2441ZTH ever go to sleep under battery power. If you do a Restore Device to the 2441ZTH does it work without touching the thermostat? When the 2441ZTH was added using the Set button was the 2441ZTH allowed to timeout after 4 minutes or was the 2441ZTH taken out of linking mode by pressing the Set button after adding to the ISY to bring it out of linking mode?
jmed999 Posted August 2, 2013 Author Posted August 2, 2013 Lee, I know you believe me...the videos are for others to learn how to get the temp to show up on the ISY. I hope the videos will help other people. Since I have gone through soooo much trouble to get the temp on the wireless stats to show up on the ISY via battery power I'm reluctant to mess with them much. For now I don't want to do a "Restore Device". I hope you understand. Let me clarify, none of the stats were added after allowing the set button to timeout. With this said, I can allow a stat to sit overnight unlinked then without touching the stat get it to link with the ISY. So they will link with the ISY after a long time without touching the stat. With that said, the 3 I have sending temp info to the ISY just happened to have physical interaction within a few minutes of linking. I hope I'm making sense here. The temp and hum do not update as if they were plugged into AC power which is a good thing! I'm hoping the battery will last ~6 months like my very 1st stat I had working a year ago,.
LeeG Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 The basic fact is if the 2441ZTH was going to sleep under battery power it would not be possible to add it to the ISY without the use of the Set button. I'm concerned the 2441ZTH is not sleeping now (for whatever reason) which would explain how it could be added to the ISY. Keep an eye on the battery icon. The batteries may well run down sooner than expected. The question about taking the 2441ZTH out of manual linking mode, when the Set button was used the 2441ZTH would add to the ISY very quickly because Extended commands are used to write the link records. When the 2441ZTH was being added to the ISY using the Set button, there would have been 3+ minutes remaining in linking mode after adding to the ISY. Was that linking mode allow to timeout or was the manual linking mode terminated by tapping the Set button. The ISY issued the same commands, wrote the same link records since it was added as a 2441ZTH. The variable is the interaction with the 2441ZTH itself. Using the Set button to manually enter linking mode should have worked. With the temp not being reported when done that way the question is what physical interaction happened with the thermostat and why did that leave the thermostat in a state where it would not report temp.
jmed999 Posted August 2, 2013 Author Posted August 2, 2013 The basic fact is if the 2441ZTH was going to sleep under battery power it would not be possible to add it to the ISY without the use of the Set button. I'm concerned the 2441ZTH is not sleeping now (for whatever reason) which would explain how it could be added to the ISY. Keep an eye on the battery icon. The batteries may well run down sooner than expected. The question about taking the 2441ZTH out of manual linking mode, when the Set button was used the 2441ZTH would add to the ISY very quickly because Extended commands are used to write the link records. When the 2441ZTH was being added to the ISY using the Set button, there would have been 3+ minutes remaining in linking mode after adding to the ISY. Was that linking mode allow to timeout or was the manual linking mode terminated by tapping the Set button. The ISY issued the same commands, wrote the same link records since it was added as a 2441ZTH. The variable is the interaction with the 2441ZTH itself. Using the Set button to manually enter linking mode should have worked. With the temp not being reported when done that way the question is what physical interaction happened with the thermostat and why did that leave the thermostat in a state where it would not report temp. 1st Paragraph: I agree...I'm also concerned with the batt. So far though it doesn't appear to update like it's on AC power which is a good thing. 2nd Paragraph. The set button was tapped therefore manually terminating the linking mode. The linking mode was never allowed to timeout on it's own. 3rd Paragraph: Great point and question. The stat would link when the set point was pressed bt never would it report the temp to the ISY. Not sure why but thrilled I have 3 stats reporting the temp to the ISY.
jmed999 Posted August 2, 2013 Author Posted August 2, 2013 Sorry for the bad quality! Video #1 http://youtu.be/VYLA71OC7C8 Video #2 http://youtu.be/0quovleufZs
LeeG Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 I understand the unwillingness to issue a Restore Device. These may not be any more palatable. A Show Device Links Table or a Diagnostics | Query Insteon Engine do not change anything in the thermostat but do issue commands which would be a positive indicator the thermostat is not sleeping. If neither is acceptable we will just have to wait to see how long it takes the batteries to run down. This is what a Query Insteon Engine trace looks like when the thermostat is sleeping. Note 3 attempts to send commands none of which got an 02 50 response because the thermostat did not receive the query engine commands. Fri 08/02/2013 11:51:48 AM : [All ] Writing 1 bytes to devices Fri 08/02/2013 11:51:48 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1F 0F B4 0F 0D 00 Fri 08/02/2013 11:51:48 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1F.0F.B4 0F 0D 00 06 (00) Fri 08/02/2013 11:51:57 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1F 0F B4 0F 0D 00 Fri 08/02/2013 11:51:57 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1F.0F.B4 0F 0D 00 06 (00) Fri 08/02/2013 11:52:06 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1F 0F B4 0F 0D 00 Fri 08/02/2013 11:52:06 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1F.0F.B4 0F 0D 00 06 (00) Fri 08/02/2013 11:52:10 AM : [ 1F F B4 1] ERR 1
Brian H Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 You probably set it to never go to sleep. I would expect a very short battery life. Good luck and keep us informed.
jmed999 Posted August 2, 2013 Author Posted August 2, 2013 How would I have set it to never so to sleep on batt power? Is that possible? If so how? Thanks!
jmed999 Posted August 2, 2013 Author Posted August 2, 2013 It's sleeping I did a query insteon engine on 1 of the 3 stats and the same thing you got above including the error and a red exclamation mark.
jmed999 Posted August 2, 2013 Author Posted August 2, 2013 This is what was in the event viewer... Fri 08/02/2013 01:33:57 PM : [All ] Writing 1 bytes to devices Fri 08/02/2013 01:33:57 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 20 4B AF 0F 0D 00 Fri 08/02/2013 01:33:57 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 20.4B.AF 0F 0D 00 06 (00) Fri 08/02/2013 01:34:06 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 20 4B AF 0F 0D 00 Fri 08/02/2013 01:34:06 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 20.4B.AF 0F 0D 00 06 (00) Fri 08/02/2013 01:34:15 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 20 4B AF 0F 0D 00 Fri 08/02/2013 01:34:15 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 20.4B.AF 0F 0D 00 06 (00) Fri 08/02/2013 01:34:19 PM : [ 20 4B AF 1] ERR 1
jmed999 Posted August 2, 2013 Author Posted August 2, 2013 Does everyone here agree the temp SHOULD be showing up in the ISY when on batt power?
LeeG Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 Thanks for the trace. It shows that particular thermostat is sleeping (or out of RF range). The 2441ZTH should send temp changes to the ISY. I increased the ambient temp at the 2441ZTH and received this message in response Fri 08/02/2013 01:56:00 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1F.0F.B4 22.80.0B 01 6E A4 (A4) Fri 08/02/2013 01:56:00 PM : [std-Direct ] 1F.0F.B4-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0 Fri 08/02/2013 01:56:00 PM : [ 1F F B4 1] ST 164 The Status 164 is actually temp 82. There may be a delay in sending the change message when in battery mode and sleeping but the change message should occur.
LeeG Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 This is the last temp message as the ambient cooled down to 81 degrees. Fri 08/02/2013 02:00:42 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1F.0F.B4 22.80.0B 01 6E A2 (A2) Fri 08/02/2013 02:00:42 PM : [std-Direct ] 1F.0F.B4-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0 Fri 08/02/2013 02:00:42 PM : [ 1F F B4 1] ST 162
jmed999 Posted August 2, 2013 Author Posted August 2, 2013 Exactly! SH kept telling me they wouldn't send temp to the ISY when on batt power. I knew they were wrong because my original wireless stat send the temp to the ISY for months. The newer ones (about 10) wouldn't until I linked via not pressing the set button. Lee what version stat do you have?
LeeG Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 The thermostat firmware is displayed in the image above, v.0B The thermostat will not send a temp change message to the ISY until it is linked as it needs the PLM Insteon address to know where to send the temp change message.
jmed999 Posted August 2, 2013 Author Posted August 2, 2013 I mean the version on the inside back of the stat. All the previous ones would link to the ISY but not send the temp until these three were linked without pressing the set button. Sent using my Galaxy S4 and Tapatalk!
jmed999 Posted August 2, 2013 Author Posted August 2, 2013 That's the version of my first one that worked great on batt power. The others (version 1.1) wouldn't send the temp and SH said it shouldn't on batt power. My latest ones (version 1.1 revision 1.2) will send the temp even though SH said those wouldn't either. Of course they will only send the temp when linked w/o pressing the set button when linking. Sent using my Galaxy S4 and Tapatalk!
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