jimthompson Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 I'm new to ISY programming, so please bear with me. I'm trying to get a pair of bedside 2334-2 '5 button' KLs to control bedroom lights, it just doesnt seem to work. The lights are currently on X10 plugin bricks. I had it working at one point, but did something that broke it. They are currently operating fine via X10 keypads, and I was hoping to migrate my rather large X10 network to Insteon slowly. This should work but does nothing. A similar program for Off does not operate either. Any insight would be appreciated. MBR is a folder Left MBR Main is the 2334-2's main button Right MBR Main is the other 2334-2's main button If Control 'MBR / Left MBR Main' is switched On Or Control 'MBR / Right MBR Main' is switched On Then Send X10 'A1/On (3)' Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
oberkc Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 I don't see anything wrong with the program. I would, instead, consider the possibility that the x-10 signal is not reaching the intended recipient. First question: do you have an X-10 repeater for reaching those devices on opposite legs of your electrical system? If you had a known good x-10 keypad controller, you could plug it into the same outlet as your PLM and transmit the A1(on) command to see if it reaches the x-10 devices intended. If not, it would tend to suggest that this location is having difficulty reaching the x-10 device.
Xathros Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 Run the Event Viewer at level 3. Press each of your buttons a couple of times. Look at the trace to see if the ISY is sending the X10 A1/On. If it is, then oberkc has identified your problem. If not, post the trace and we will see where we go from there. -Xathros
IndyMike Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 In addition to the above suggestions... If the triggering devices are Scene controllers, they will transmit device cleanup messages to the responders after the ON message. These cleanup message can interfere with the X10 transmission. If they are controllers, try a wait statement before your "X10 on " command. The duration of the wait may depend on the number of scene members.
Brian H Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 I added a two second delay before sending my X10 commands. For the reasons Indy Mike pointed out.
jimthompson Posted August 30, 2013 Author Posted August 30, 2013 Thanks all for your help thus far To "oberkc " I tested using an X10 mini controller plugged into the same outlet as the PLM ... it works. The same MiniController works from the location where the KPLs are now. I also have the legs bridged with a leviton amplifier/repeater/coupler. In the interest of completeness I moved one of the 2334-2s to the same outlet ... nothing in the event log, no effect. To Mike & Brian, I added a 2 second delay before the SEND ... No Joy To Xathros The resulting event log is empty, to verify that the event log is working I executed a scene with an X10 command for another address in it and it executed as expected. The X10 lights work properly with a X10 Mini Controller, and from an Insteon wall controller (Early KPL6) configured for X10 control. The problem remains with the two, new, 2334s and the ISY's inability to see them.
oberkc Posted August 30, 2013 Posted August 30, 2013 The next thing I would start to consider is a device failure, or the possibility that your plm outputs a weaker signal than does the other controller. I am hoping you have an x10 plug in module you can plug directly into the same outlet as your plm. I can tell you that my PLM (an older model) works fine with x-10.
apostolakisl Posted August 30, 2013 Posted August 30, 2013 Along the same lines as the 2 second delay would be to right click the program in the program tree and click "run then". This will eliminate the possibilities that Insteon transmissions are interfering with x10. Furthermore, you might move the plm to an outlet near the x10 device or vice versa to further determine if it is noise or signal attenuation.
jimthompson Posted August 30, 2013 Author Posted August 30, 2013 Imagine a unfiltered, un surge protected, un breakered power strip with - ISY PLM ISY Transformer X10 Lamp Brick on A1 2334-2 named 'Left MBR Main' running the program manually ... 'Run Then' works (both the local X10 and ones in the bedroom turn on/off) toggling the 2334 fails, empty event log the X10 Mini-controller works ... no surprise here really Perhaps the ISY isn't seeing the 2334, so I relinked it Viola .. it works .. Relinked the second controller, added it as an OR condition .. it fails, neither controller can toggle the lights ... removed the OR condition ... either controller works ... infact I set the programs up to turn on with one and off with the other ... So, it has to do with the OR condition ... Scratching my head over this...
LeeG Posted August 30, 2013 Posted August 30, 2013 Right click Program name, select Copy to Clipboard and paste Program that does not work.
jimthompson Posted August 30, 2013 Author Posted August 30, 2013 Final post for today Replaced the two programs (one for ON, one for OFF) with four Programs (one each for ON and OFF for each 2334-2) and it all works. There are days I wish I wasn't a programmer by trade. To summarize .. This works .. If Control '25.09.B2.1' is switched On Then Send X10 'A1/On (3)' Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') If Control '25.06.C6.1' is switched On Then Send X10 'A1/On (3)' Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') This does not ... If Control '25.06.C6.1' is switched On Or Control '25.09.B2.1' is switched On Then Send X10 'A1/On (3)' Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
LeeG Posted August 30, 2013 Posted August 30, 2013 When a KPL button is pressed at least two messages are sent from the KPL. inbound Group Broadcast - triggers program inbound Group Cleanup Direct (this message is sent for each device linked to the KPL button) When the Program works I think this is the sequence that is occurring inbound Group Broadcast - triggers program outbound X10 inbound Group Cleanup Direct When the Program If is more complex I think what is happening is this inbound Group Broadcast - triggers program outbound X10 at the same time the KPL is sending the inbound Group Cleanup Direct the outbound and inbound messages interfere with each other The solution is to add a Wait of 2-3 seconds before the X10 message. More Wait time could be required depending on the number of devices the KPL button is linked to. Anticipating the response that the Wait was tried and it did not solve the problem, the Wait is needed. That fact that it did not solved the symptom before does not mean it is not needed.
jimthompson Posted August 31, 2013 Author Posted August 31, 2013 I understand your logic around the wait LeeG, but it had no effect during my testing - The program works reliably (read 100%) without the OR and fails reliably (read 100%) with it The addition of a Wait prior to the Send had no effect, further removing it in the simple case did not reduce reliablity The message collision opportunity is equally valid in both cases, if anything is should take longer to get to the send in the OR case ... but the problem is only present with the OR condition present The eventlog shows nothing when the OR is present and the anticipated X10 traffic when it is not ... Its a puzzle
LeeG Posted August 31, 2013 Posted August 31, 2013 If no X10 traffic in the event viewer watch the Programs | Summary tab. Is the Program with the Or triggered at all (Last Run Time) and if triggered what was the If evaluation (Status=true/false).
oberkc Posted August 31, 2013 Posted August 31, 2013 Its a puzzle Indeed, it is. I am as puzzled by this as you. The wait suggestions of others is all I can think of. By chance, are either of these two devices controllers of an insteon scene or triggers of other programs? Definitely strange. I would not have predicted this.
arw01 Posted August 31, 2013 Posted August 31, 2013 Could you set the event log viewer to level 3 please Trigger the devices with the normal controllers as you have the programs split up now. Then add back the OR command and trigger the devices again Then copy the log for the level 3 and post it for review please. Since we all have dozens of or statements and they work, one must conclude a different issue here. But as Sherlock Holmes would say: How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?
IndyMike Posted August 31, 2013 Posted August 31, 2013 Hello Jim, I have multiple programs that function properly as you have posted below. This should work. Today I tried constructing a program using dual band KPL's to see if there was an interaction. I could not come up with a configuration that would misbehave (the program always responded properly). From your post below, it appears that you actually deleted/re-installed your devices. That would eliminate the possibility of scene cleanup messages (i.e. the only responder was the PLM). My subject devices were older dual band KPL relays. They do not support "Group cleanup direct retries" as described by LeeG here: http://forum.universal-devices.com/viewtopic.php?p=89144#p89144 Your 2334 KPL's are very new. It is possible that they are sending additional communications to the PLM that are "re-triggering" your program to a false condition. I do not have any of these devices to test. As posted by Lee and ARW01: 1) Inspect the program summary tab. It is possible that the program is triggering true, then re-triggering false before the X10 command can be sent. 2) Please post a "level 3" event viewer log. I suspect that your 2334's are sending something that causes a re-trigger. This does not ... If Control '25.06.C6.1' is switched On Or Control '25.09.B2.1' is switched On Then Send X10 'A1/On (3)' Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
Recommended Posts