Cannot Determine Insteon Engine

[BobMiller]

I have read thru existing problems of this type and my situation seems a bit different. I have a 99i controlled system (v3.3.10 firmware) with at least 35 different devices on my network.

 

I replaced two broken Insteon devices this morning with new devices. The first swap occurred without a problem (2476S swapped out).

 

On the second I swapped an old 2476D for a 2477D. When I tried adding the new 2477D (20.AD.18 v6.9 1248) I got the message "Cannot Determine Insteon Engine". I tried several times and failed. Then I reset the switch unit and reset the 99i/modem and still got the same message.

 

Per prior suggestions that it might be a communications problem I moved the 99i close to the switch. Still same issue. I had some other miscellaneous Insteon plug-in adapters, so I tried "adding" those devices: 2457D2 and 2456S3. I got the same failure message at that point.

 

Below is a log [section A] of several different attempts to "add" a device. It seems in all cases the remote device does not respond. So I thought the 99i or its attached modem wasn't working or got into a confused state. However I can talk to other Insteon devices and reprogram them.

 

As a test I then reset the 99i and modem again, and was able to add a 2457D2, but was not able to add the original problem 2477D (20.AD.18 v6.9 1248).

 

I reset the 99i and its modem again and tried adding the 2477D again. This time it made it a bit further but still failed. [see Log section B below]. At this point I can't "add" other devices either...

 

Any suggestions?

 

Thanks for your help,

 

Bob

 

 

 

[section A] {different examples of attempts to various devices}

 

Mon 09/02/2013 12:22:58 PM : [20 ad 18 ] Added to list of devices to link to ISY

Mon 09/02/2013 12:22:58 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 20 AD 18 0F 0D 00

Mon 09/02/2013 12:23:07 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 20 AD 18 0F 0D 00

Mon 09/02/2013 12:23:15 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 20 AD 18 0F 0D 00

Mon 09/02/2013 12:23:18 PM : [20 AD 18 0 ] Failed to add device

 

 

Mon 09/02/2013 11:42:18 AM : [1a 1e c9 ] Added to list of devices to link to ISY

Mon 09/02/2013 11:42:18 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1A 1E C9 0F 0D 00

Mon 09/02/2013 11:42:27 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1A 1E C9 0F 0D 00

Mon 09/02/2013 11:42:35 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1A 1E C9 0F 0D 00

Mon 09/02/2013 11:42:38 AM : [1A 1E C9 0 ] Failed to add device

Mon 09/02/2013 11:43:04 AM : [c 0 85 ] Added to list of devices to link to ISY

Mon 09/02/2013 11:43:04 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 0C 00 85 0F 0D 00

Mon 09/02/2013 11:43:11 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 0C 00 85 0F 0D 00

Mon 09/02/2013 11:43:19 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 0C 00 85 0F 0D 00

Mon 09/02/2013 11:43:22 AM : [C 0 85 0 ] Failed to add device

Mon 09/02/2013 11:49:14 AM : [ Time] 11:49:15 0(0)

Mon 09/02/2013 11:51:23 AM : [1a e9 bb ] Added to list of devices to link to ISY

Mon 09/02/2013 11:51:23 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1A E9 BB 0F 0D 00

Mon 09/02/2013 11:51:31 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1A E9 BB 0F 0D 00

Mon 09/02/2013 11:51:39 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1A E9 BB 0F 0D 00

Mon 09/02/2013 11:51:42 AM : [1A E9 BB 0 ] Failed to add device

 

 

[section B]

 

Mon 09/02/2013 12:06:58 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 20.AD.18 0F 0D 00 06 (00)

Mon 09/02/2013 12:06:59 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 20.AD.18 13.25.27 A7 0D FF (FF)

Mon 09/02/2013 12:06:59 PM : [std-Direct Nack] 20.AD.18-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

Mon 09/02/2013 12:06:59 PM : [iNST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 20 AD 18 1F 09 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F6

Mon 09/02/2013 12:06:59 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 20.AD.18 1F 09 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F6 06 LNK-ON (01)

Mon 09/02/2013 12:07:08 PM : [iNST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 20 AD 18 1F 09 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F6

Mon 09/02/2013 12:07:08 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 20.AD.18 1F 09 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F6 06 LNK-ON (01)

Mon 09/02/2013 12:07:09 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 20.AD.18 13.25.27 27 09 01 LNK-ON (01)

Mon 09/02/2013 12:07:09 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 20.AD.18-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

Mon 09/02/2013 12:07:09 PM : [LNK-BGN ] 02 64 01 00 02

Mon 09/02/2013 12:07:09 PM : [20 AD 18 0 ] Failed to add device

[LeeG]

The first set of examples shows the PLM is hung up. It is not even echoing back the serial command. The following line

 

Mon 09/02/2013 12:22:58 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 20 AD 18 0F 0D 00

Mon 09/02/2013 12:06:58 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 20.AD.18 0F 0D 00 06 (00) this line missing in all examples

 

should be repeated with an 06 on the end. This can happen if the PLM has been put into linking mode (LED is blinking) and other PLM activity not associated with the linking process is attempted. Whatever the cause messages are not being sent to the devices in question.

 

The second case the device fails to respond to the request for cat/subcat and firmware level. Has this been posted before? It looks familiar. I would suggest moving the device to the PLM plug point using an Appliance cord as I suspect there is a comm issue where it is located.

[BobMiller]

LeeG,

 

Thank you for your quick response. I hadn't posted this problem before.

 

For the Section A examples, it did seem like there must have been something wrong with the PLM, which is why I reset it. I then got the results in Section B. By the way my PLM is a dual band device.

 

In Section A I don't think I did anything external to the "add" process that might have confused the PLM and caused it to hang. But who knows...

 

Based on your inputs, I'll ignore the Section A stuff for now and assume the fundamental problem is a comm one and try to rerun the experiments with the PLM reset and plugged into the closest outlet to the problem switch (same circuit).

 

In my Section B experiments the PLM was about 10 feet away but on a different circuit. However the PLM and the problem switch were both dual band devices so I would have thought they had a very "close" RF connection.

 

I'll do those experiments tomorrow and post my results.

 

Thanks again,

 

Bob

[LeeG]

This is a trace of adding an I2CS device using New INSTEON Device.

 

Note the Hops Left=2 on my system that has good comm. with the device being added. Your trace shows Hops Left=1 which suggests the PLM and the device are not in direct contact. Also the line in Red is missing from your trace which I attribute to the comm. problem.

 

Also the LNK-ON required two attempts in your trace before the device responded where the device responded to the first attempt in my trace.

 

Perhaps there is something like a baby monitor or the like operating in the same frequency range as the Insteon devices.

 

 

Mon 09/02/2013 11:48:16 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1C FD D5 0F 0D 00

Mon 09/02/2013 11:48:16 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1C.FD.D5 0F 0D 00 06 (00)

Mon 09/02/2013 11:48:16 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1C.FD.D5 22.80.0B AB 0D FF (FF)

Mon 09/02/2013 11:48:16 PM : [std-Direct Nack] 1C.FD.D5-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Mon 09/02/2013 11:48:16 PM : [iNST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 1C FD D5 1F 09 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F6

Mon 09/02/2013 11:48:16 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1C.FD.D5 1F 09 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F6 06 LNK-ON (01)

Mon 09/02/2013 11:48:17 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1C.FD.D5 22.80.0B 2B 09 01 LNK-ON (01)

Mon 09/02/2013 11:48:17 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 1C.FD.D5-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Mon 09/02/2013 11:48:17 PM : [LNK-BGN ] 02 64 01 00 06

Mon 09/02/2013 11:48:18 PM : [LNK-STAT ] 02 53 M(01) gid=00 1C.FD.D5 0700 41

Mon 09/02/2013 11:48:18 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1C FD D5 0F 0D 00

Mon 09/02/2013 11:48:18 PM : [LNK-END ] 02 65 06

[BobMiller]

LeeG,

 

Thanks again for your support.

 

Per your suggestion I tried running an appliance cord directly to a plug next to the failing switch. That arrangement also failed the same way as "Section B" above.

 

I then replaced the failing 2477D with another switch, a 2476D. At that point everything worked - in fact messages made it to the unit in 1 Hop (with my normal house setup), so I think I have reasonable communications.

 

I have to assume the 2477D is a faulty unit, even though it works fine manually.

 

Thanks!

 

Bob

[xd40]

Sorry for tacking onto an old issue, but I just had this happen with a brand new just-out-of-the-box 2477D. The issue cleared up on its own after a bit but...

 

one other side effect of this was that when the switch was powered up and having the issues, it was automatically starting up in X10 learning mode (bottom LED flashing green) and it picked up the X10 code for one of my motion sensors. It took me a while to figure out why the light kept going on every time I walked into my kitchen, but I finally did and unlearned the X10 code and the switch seems to be working fine now.

[Brian H]

Many of us do a factory reset on all new devices before installing them.

As we have seen some modules shipping with test Insteon and X10 addresses from the factory.

[rg65]

I have the same issue and it is very frustrating!! I wasted half a day trying to do something that should take 5 minutes. This problem seems to stick around and not get fixed. I just purchased 5 more 2457D2 lamp modules. All 5 of them will not link via "Start Linking". I was able to make 4 of them add by using the NEW INSTEON DEVICE function. However the 5th one does not work. I have tried many different outlets with 1 being in the same outlet as the PLM.

 

I keep getting "Cannot Determine Insteon Device Type"

 

I have done a factory reset on the module with no change.

 

ISY994 v. 4.0.5

 

Here is the log:

 

Sat 11/23/2013 12:38:03 PM : [23 5b 6a ] Added to list of devices to link to ISY

Sat 11/23/2013 12:38:03 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 23 5B 6A 0F 0D 00

Sat 11/23/2013 12:38:03 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 23.5B.6A 0F 0D 00 06 (00)

Sat 11/23/2013 12:38:04 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 23.5B.6A 19.71.40 2B 0D 02 (02)

Sat 11/23/2013 12:38:04 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 23.5B.6A-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Sat 11/23/2013 12:38:04 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 23 5B 6A 0F 10 00

Sat 11/23/2013 12:38:04 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 23.5B.6A 0F 10 00 06 ID-REQ (00)

Sat 11/23/2013 12:38:04 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 23.5B.6A 19.71.40 2B 10 00 ID-REQ (00)

Sat 11/23/2013 12:38:04 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 23.5B.6A-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Sat 11/23/2013 12:38:13 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 23 5B 6A 0F 10 00

Sat 11/23/2013 12:38:13 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 23.5B.6A 0F 10 00 06 ID-REQ (00)

Sat 11/23/2013 12:38:13 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 23.5B.6A 19.71.40 2B 10 00 ID-REQ (00)

Sat 11/23/2013 12:38:13 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 23.5B.6A-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Sat 11/23/2013 12:38:22 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 23 5B 6A 0F 10 00

Sat 11/23/2013 12:38:22 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 23.5B.6A 0F 10 00 06 ID-REQ (00)

Sat 11/23/2013 12:38:23 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 23.5B.6A 19.71.40 2B 10 00 ID-REQ (00)

Sat 11/23/2013 12:38:23 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 23.5B.6A-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Sat 11/23/2013 12:38:27 PM : [23 5B 6A 0 ] Cannot determine device type

Sat 11/23/2013 12:38:27 PM : [23 5B 6A 0 ] Failed to add device, reason 2

Sat 11/23/2013 12:38:27 PM : [All ] Writing 0 bytes to devices

[LeeG]

The device is not sending the expected response. ISY tries three times before aborting.

 

The message in Red is missing from your posted trace. It is the message from the device that identifies the type of device and device firmware level. Normally Start Linking will work when New INSTEON Device does not because pressing the Set button on the device sends the device type information as part of the Set button press exchange.

 

If the device does not work plugged into the PLM plug point that is quite odd. What does Tools | Diagnostics | PLM Info/Status show for the PLM firmware?

 

Sat 11/23/2013 02:31:35 PM : [1c fd d5 ] Added to list of devices to link to ISY

 

Sat 11/23/2013 02:31:35 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1C FD D5 0F 0D 00

 

Sat 11/23/2013 02:31:35 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1C.FD.D5 0F 0D 00 06 (00)

 

Sat 11/23/2013 02:31:35 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1C.FD.D5 22.80.0B 2B 0D 02 (02)

 

Sat 11/23/2013 02:31:35 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 1C.FD.D5-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

 

Sat 11/23/2013 02:31:35 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1C FD D5 0F 10 00

 

Sat 11/23/2013 02:31:35 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1C.FD.D5 0F 10 00 06 ID-REQ (00)

 

Sat 11/23/2013 02:31:35 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1C.FD.D5 22.80.0B 2B 10 00 ID-REQ (00)

 

Sat 11/23/2013 02:31:35 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 1C.FD.D5-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

 

Sat 11/23/2013 02:31:35 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1C.FD.D5 07.00.41 8B 01 00 (00)

 

Sat 11/23/2013 02:31:35 PM : [std-Broadcast] 1C.FD.D5-->07.00.41, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

[rg65]

Thanks Lee!

 

The PLM says: 19.70.40 v98 / Connected

[LeeG]

I think the v.98 level had some problems that were fixed with v.99 which has since evolved to v.9B.

 

Never saw a list of issues with v.98 so cannot say an update would help the missing Broadcast message.

 

Have the Event Trace running at LEVEL 3 and try using Start Linking to add the LampLinc that will not add. I am surprised the Set button technique does not work.

 

Also click Help | About and verify the UI (Admin Console) level is correct.

[rg65]

Thanks Lee! Sorry to be so late, but I have been out of town for a few weeks.

 

It finally worked later in the day. Might have been some noise or something.