Thermostat program did not work this morning...

[JSP0511]

Hello all,

 

I run an Insteon thermostat using only programs through the ISY, this is our first winter since installing it in August this year in NY. I have 7 total programs. Weekday: "wakeup"-67 5:01am-7am, day-62 7:01am-3pm, evening-67 3:01-11pm & sleep-62 11:01am-5am. Weekend: day-65 7:30am-5pm, evening-67 5:01-11pm & sleep-62 11:01-7:29am.

 

We also use an "Away Mode" that overrides any program and runs the therm at 62, when "Away Mode" is off, the thermostat programs take back over.

 

In the last month or so since we've needed to call for heat, everything has been working fine including away on and off, until this morning.

 

My wife wakes up earlier than me, thus the weekday wake up therm program. As she was leaving for work, she told me that the house was freezing (I was still under the blanket ). So I whipped out my phone and saw that the house temp was 62 and the therm was calling for 67 BUT "Heating" was not taking place. I then raised the temp 1 degree from mobilinc and "Heating" started. Lowered back to 67 and heating continued until 7am, when the next program takes over. I then checked to make sure "Away Mode" was not "On" and it was not, we hadn't used away since the evening before and the house heated fine that night and throughout yesterday. Also, this has only happened once so far.

 

Any idea what happened here?

 

Does this happen from time to time with the Insteon Thermostat or ISY where one or both kinda just forget or get locked up?

 

Is there any way to help avoid this from happening in the future?

[Xathros]

Next time it happens, go look at the stat first and see if the stat setpoint agrees with the phone/admin console. I suspect it won't. As I mentioned in another thread, I think you are having comms issues with your stat.

 

Adding an access point across the room from the Stat can often resolve these issues.

 

-Xathros

[JSP0511]

Next time it happens, go look at the stat first and see if the stat setpoint agrees with the phone/admin console. I suspect it won't. As I mentioned in another thread, I think you are having comms issues with your stat.

 

Adding an access point across the room from the Stat can often resolve these issues.

 

-Xathros

 

I have a dual band switchlinc right next to it for the dining room light.

 

I do remember the setpoint being 67 but the room temp 62 and the therm wasn't calling for heat. I was viewing through mobilinc...under my blanket, remember? Once I bumped the temp up to 68, the therm stated calling for heat.

[Brian H]

Do you have any communications issues with the Switchlinc to the ISY controller?

It is possible it is sending and receiving the RF commands from the Thermostat and the power line signals are not getting back to the ISY controller.

 

Dual band Switchlincs can be effected by things like mounted in a metal electrical box.

Some have found even with Dual Band devices. Adding an Access Point corrected things.

[Xathros]

Jerry-

 

This is why you need to look at the stat in person. If you look from the phone, you see what the ISY thinks the stat is set to. If it was in heat mode with a 67 set point and the temp was 62, the furnace would have been running already. When you changed the set point, that message got through and changed the set point from 62 to 68. Then you backed it down to 67 which was still higher than actual temp.

 

Dual band devices don't always work as well as access points due to the fact that they are installed in boxes with wires and other items in close proximity. It also appears that the antennas in some of these thermostats are very directional and prefer the access to be from in front of them rather than to the side, above or below.

 

-Xathros

[JSP0511]

Do you have any communications issues with the Switchlinc to the ISY controller?

It is possible it is sending and receiving the RF commands from the Thermostat and the power line signals are not getting back to the ISY controller.

 

Dual band Switchlincs can be effected by things like mounted in a metal electrical box.

Some have found even with Dual Band devices. Adding an Access Point corrected things.

 

No issues with the switchlinc in the dining room. The dining room SL is about 2 inches from the therm. I have another DB SW in the kitchen about 10ft from the therm. 3 DB SW's about 20ft away in the foyer and another DB SW in the study about 15ft from the therm.

 

It's just odd to me that the therm set point read 67, room temp 62 but no heat. I'll monitor it of course.

[JSP0511]

Jerry-

 

This is why you need to look at the stat in person. If you look from the phone, you see what the ISY thinks the stat is set to. If it was in heat mode with a 67 set point and the temp was 62, the furnace would have been running already. When you changed the set point, that message got through and changed the set point from 62 to 68. Then you backed it down to 67 which was still higher than actual temp.

 

Dual band devices don't always work as well as access points due to the fact that they are installed in boxes with wires and other items in close proximity. It also appears that the antennas in some of these thermostats are very directional and prefer the access to be from in front of them rather than to the side, above or below.

 

-Xathros

 

Understood. If it happens again I will check at the therm. Also, it seems it just may make sense to plug in an access point. I'll add that to the list of items for my next order.

 

Is it ok if the access point is around a corner behind my tv media center? The media center is not right up against the wall. There would be a good 2-3ft between the access point and the media center. It's in a corner.

[Xathros]

Do you already have any access points for coupling the legs of your electrical mains? If so, you could try moving one to across from the stat to see if it makes any difference, if not, you might consider picking up a few.

 

-Xathros

[JSP0511]

Do you already have any access points for coupling the legs of your electrical mains? If so, you could try moving one to across from the stat to see if it makes any difference, if not, you might consider picking up a few.

 

-Xathros

 

Not sure I understand what you mean by an access point for coupling the legs of the electrical mains?

 

I currently have 0 access points in my system. Would a lamp linc act as an access point? (2457D2 LampLinc - INSTEON Plug-In Lamp Dimmer Module (Dual-Band), 2-Pin)

 

I usually use one in my living room, diagonally from the therm when I throw up my Chrstimas tree. I could just leave it plugged in all year even though nothing is plugged into it for 10 months.

 

If not, I'll pick up an access point on my next order.

 

edit: just read on smarthome that the lamplincs double as access points. I have two of them for christmas lights. One for the dining room tree and one for the living room tree. I'll just leave one or both plugged in all year. No biggie.

[Xathros]

Your home electrical feed consists of 2 110V legs (phases) and a neutral with 220Volts from leg to leg and 110 volts from either leg to neutral. Generally, half of the circuits in your home are on one 110V leg and the other half are on the other. Insteon signals do not travel well from one leg to the other through the utility company's transformer out on the pole. We use access points (or other dual band devices) one installed on each leg and both within rf range of each other to couple (or bridge) the legs of your home's electrical feed so that signals can travel from one leg to the other.

 

The general guideline is to install 2 access points on opposite legs (phases) near the main electrical panel. If you have a dual band PLM (2413S), you may consider that to be one of the access points and simply install a second access point in proximity but on the opposite leg.

 

-Xathros

[JSP0511]

Your home electrical feed consists of 2 110V legs (phases) and a neutral with 220Volts from leg to leg and 110 volts from either leg to neutral. Generally, half of the circuits in your home are on one 110V leg and the other half are on the other. Insteon signals do not travel well from one leg to the other through the utility company's transformer out on the pole. We use access points (or other dual band devices) one installed on each leg and both within rf range of each other to couple (or bridge) the legs of your home's electrical feed so that signals can travel from one leg to the other.

 

The general guideline is to install 2 access points on opposite legs (phases) near the main electrical panel. If you have a dual band PLM (2413S), you may consider that to be one of the access points and simply install a second access point in proximity but on the opposite leg.

 

-Xathros

 

Ah ok. I remember reading about that when I first started looking into insteon a year and a half ago. I disregarded it since I was putting DB devices everywhere and since haven't had an issue.

 

My PLM is in my basement utility room in a Leviton Enclosure plugged into a

Leviton 47605-DP AC Power Block. I wrote off the fact that it's sending RF lol.

 

Other than this therm issue, I haven't had any com issues that I've noticed. I will def install the lamplincs as I mentioned in a previous post. I will also note which leg each access point falls on.

[Xathros]

That cabinet is certainly not helping it's rf capabilities and as I recall, that power block has a sure suppressor. Quite often surge suppressors contain noise filters that adversely affect Insteon signaling on the powerline. The fact that you haven't noticed any problems up till this stat issue is a good thing but I think you may have some marginal communications.

 

Launch the admin console and open up the event viewer, set it to level 3 then using the admin console, turn on/off various devices around the house and make some changes to your stat. Look at the data returned in the event viewer for Max Hops=3, Hops left=0 or 1. if you are seeing a lot of 0's or 1's in the remaining hop count, that indicates poor communications.

 

-Xathros

[JSP0511]

That cabinet is certainly not helping it's rf capabilities and as I recall, that power block has a sure suppressor. Quite often surge suppressors contain noise filters that adversely affect Insteon signaling on the powerline. The fact that you haven't noticed any problems up till this stat issue is a good thing but I think you may have some marginal communications.

 

Launch the admin console and open up the event viewer, set it to level 3 then using the admin console, turn on/off various devices around the house and make some changes to your stat. Look at the data returned in the event viewer for Max Hops=3, Hops left=0 or 1. if you are seeing a lot of 0's or 1's in the remaining hop count, that indicates poor communications.

 

-Xathros

 

Ok, you've given me homework in two threads lol. I'll take care of both when I get home and report back.

 

Thank you so much!

[JSP0511]

That cabinet is certainly not helping it's rf capabilities and as I recall, that power block has a sure suppressor. Quite often surge suppressors contain noise filters that adversely affect Insteon signaling on the powerline. The fact that you haven't noticed any problems up till this stat issue is a good thing but I think you may have some marginal communications.

 

Launch the admin console and open up the event viewer, set it to level 3 then using the admin console, turn on/off various devices around the house and make some changes to your stat. Look at the data returned in the event viewer for Max Hops=3, Hops left=0 or 1. if you are seeing a lot of 0's or 1's in the remaining hop count, that indicates poor communications.

 

-Xathros

 

Ok, whats a HOP? I'll take a guess. The signal will be sent a max of 3 times, HOPS Left is how many attempts remained before the message was received?

 

Therm (next to the DB dining room light switch) w/ lamplincs gets:

Max Hops 3, Hops left 2, THEN

Max hops 2, hops left 1, SOMETIMES Max Hops 1, hops left 0 on second line THEN

Max Hops 1, hops left 0, SOMETIMES adds a 4th line

Max Hops 2, Hops left 0

 

Therm (next to the DB dining room light switch) w/o lamplincs when setting setpoint down gets:

Max Hops 3, Hops left 1, THEN

Max hops 1, hops left 0, THEN

Max Hops 1, hops left 0

 

Therm (next to the DB dining room light switch) w/o lamplincs when setting setpoint up gets:

Max Hops 3, Hops left 2, THEN

Max hops 1, hops left 0, THEN

Max Hops 1, hops left 0

 

Dining rm light I'm getting Hops left 1, sometimes 0 and sometimes a can't communicate error (but the light does go on or off as I ask)

 

The communication errors and Hops left 0 only started after I've been clicking around the Java applet for quite some time and adding the lamplincs. Before I added the lamplincs I was getting a constant Hops Left 1 on the dining room light with no comm errors.

 

 

I get Hops Left 1 on:

Kitchen light (8-10ft from dinging room)

Kitchen patio (next to kitchen light)

Garage light (in basement) i believe powerline only

 

Hops Left 2 on: (a,b,c and d are in a 4 gang box 20 feet from the dining room, all DB)

a)Foyer (downstairs and upstairs switches linked)

b)Entrance inside (KPL

c)Entrance outside

d)Hallway (downstairs and upstairs switches linked)

Kitchen sink light (insteon led bulb), (also 5-7 ft from the kitchen light and kitchen patio switches)

Garage i/o linc (two cement walls away from the PLM in the Leviton metal enclosure)

Both lamplincs I just plugged back in

 

I'm not sure the lamplincs are helping all that much. The dining room lamplinc I tried in 2 outlets which I believe are on 2 different circuits though not sure if they are on 2 different legs.

 

My brain is fried...