Thermostat: Fail-safe if program does not turn heat one

[JSP0511]

Hello all,

 

I run an Insteon thermostat using only programs through the ISY. I have 7 total programs. Weekday: "wakeup"-67 5:01am-7am, day-62 7:01am-3pm, evening-67 3:01-11pm & sleep-62 11:01am-5am. Weekend: day-65 7:30am-5pm, evening-67 5:01-11pm & sleep-62 11:01-7:29am.

 

How would one go about setting a fail-safe for the thermostat just in case all programs fail and/or isy loses power? For instance if temp reached 60, hold 60. Would that be through the thermostat it self?

 

Can I also have the ISY notify me if the temp does drop below 60 degrees and notify me every 30 minutes until the temp reaches above 60 (this assuming the isy didn't lose power but maybe the programs failed to make the changes called for)?

 

If anyone has any other suggestions on how they are doing something like this, please feel free to share! I am open to any and all suggestions.

 

Thank you,

Jerry

[Xathros]

JSP0511-

 

The ISY is not in direct control of the heat - the Thermostat is. If the ISY were to go offline for whatever reason, the stat would continue to maintain the heat at whatever setpoint you had last set. As long as you don't put the thermostat into Off or Cool mode then it will maintain the temp at the setpoint.

 

You can certainly have the ISY notify you if the temp drops below a certain point (heat failure, out of fuel etc) with a fairly simple program and a custom notification.

If
  Status Thermostat - Main < 60

Then
  Repeat every 30 minutes
     Notify Me Low Temp Alert

Else

 

Along the lines of your thinking, I have a pellet stove that I directly control with my ISY using an IOLinc to simulate a basic mechanical thermostat. I use my Venstar thermostat for temp detection and toggle the stove as needed. In the event of an ISY failure, I have the old mechanical stat in parallel with the IOLinc and set that at 55. This way if the temp drops below 55 the stove will run without the ISY telling it to. Assuming of course that there is still power. To date, this failsafe has nt been needed.

 

Hope that helps.

 

-Xathros

[JSP0511]

JSP0511-

 

The ISY is not in direct control of the heat - the Thermostat is. If the ISY were to go offline for whatever reason, the stat would continue to maintain the heat at whatever setpoint you had last set. As long as you don't put the thermostat into Off or Cool mode then it will maintain the temp at the setpoint.

 

You can certainly have the ISY notify you if the temp drops below a certain point (heat failure, out of fuel etc) with a fairly simple program and a custom notification.

If
  Status Thermostat - Main < 60

Then
  Repeat every 30 minutes
     Notify Me Low Temp Alert

Else

 

Hope that helps.

 

-Xathros

 

Xathros, first thank you! Can the current room temp somehow be included in the notification message?

 

I notice that when the room temp is above the temp that the program at the time would call for, temp at the bottom of the therm always read 57, not the temp the program would call for. Is that the set point should the ISY not communicate to the therm?

 

If so, I'm assuming I can check the manual on how to raise that?

 

Also, because a program is activated through the ISY when the room temp reaches the activating temp, when the room temp is higher than the program, the ISY is not communicating to the therm, thus the 57 (default temp of therm out of the box), correct? Just confirming that I understand this correctly. I always found it odd to see "57" but now that I'm thinking through it, it's starting to make sense...I think.

 

Thanks again.

[Xathros]

 

Xathros, first thank you! Can the current room temp somehow be included in the notification message?

 

Yes! You can use a substitution variable in the email notification to reference the thermostats Status (temp). The would look like: $(sys.node.11 22 AA 1.ST) where 11 22 AA is the addrrss of the stat.

 

I notice that when the room temp is above the temp that the program at the time would call for, temp at the bottom of the therm always read 57, not the temp the program would call for. Is that the set point should the ISY not communicate to the therm?

 

That sounds to me like the setpoint. That should be whatever your program had set for a setpoint. Does that change when you press the up or down buttons on the stat?

 

If so, I'm assuming I can check the manual on how to raise that?

 

Also, because a program is activated through the ISY when the room temp reaches the activating temp, when the room temp is higher than the program, the ISY is not communicating to the therm, thus the 57 (default temp of therm out of the box), correct? Just confirming that I understand this correctly. I always found it odd to see "57" but now that I'm thinking through it, it's starting to make sense...I think.

 

The stat operates independently of the ISY. No program need to execute when the stat calls for heat or is satisfied unless you are logging or taking some other actions based on that data. If the set point is not changing based on your programs, you may have a comm issue between the stat and the ISY. Can you read the current temp from the admin console and can you manually change the setpoint from the console and have those changes reflected at the display on the stat?

 

Thanks again.

 

No problem. Happy to help.

 

-Xathros

[JSP0511]

Xathros, first thank you! Can the current room temp somehow be included in the notification message?

 

Yes! You can use a substitution variable in the email notification to reference the thermostats Status (temp). The would look like: $(sys.node.11 22 AA 1.ST) where 11 22 AA is the addrrss of the stat.

 

Awesome!

 

I notice that when the room temp is above the temp that the program at the time would call for, temp at the bottom of the therm always read 57, not the temp the program would call for. Is that the set point should the ISY not communicate to the therm?

 

That sounds to me like the setpoint. That should be whatever your program had set for a setpoint. Does that change when you press the up or down buttons on the stat?

 

Yes it does. The only time I see 57 seems to be when there is no need for a program to call for anything. For instance, if it's 5pm where a the program would call for 67 but the house is 68+, I see 57 in the bottom left. When the therm states "Heating", I see the programs called for temp in the bottom left, not 57.

 

If so, I'm assuming I can check the manual on how to raise that?

 

Also, because a program is activated through the ISY when the room temp reaches the activating temp, when the room temp is higher than the program, the ISY is not communicating to the therm, thus the 57 (default temp of therm out of the box), correct? Just confirming that I understand this correctly. I always found it odd to see "57" but now that I'm thinking through it, it's starting to make sense...I think.

 

The stat operates independently of the ISY. No program need to execute when the stat calls for heat or is satisfied unless you are logging or taking some other actions based on that data. If the set point is not changing based on your programs, you may have a comm issue between the stat and the ISY. Can you read the current temp from the admin console and can you manually change the setpoint from the console and have those changes reflected at the display on the stat?

 

I am at work now and can read the current room temp at 61.5 (maybe my program calls for 60 not 62 at this hour) and the called for temp is 57. I just hit the up arrow and it went to 58, 59 etc.

 

Do you think now that I've changed it, the set point will remain at 59 at the therm and not revert to 57?

[Xathros]

Where are the programs? In the ISY admin console? Or in the Stat?

 

-Xathros

[JSP0511]

Where are the programs? In the ISY admin console? Or in the Stat?

 

-Xathros

 

The programs are in the ISY. I never set a default setpoint in the therm or in the ISY (if that's even possible). The only thing I did with the stat other than install it was match it to the old therm as far as temp was concerned. The isnteon therm was showing 3 degrees colder.

[Xathros]

Good. then we are on the right track here. Can you copy and post one or two of your programs please. Your stat should not revert to 57 unless your programs are telling it to.

 

Right click program name in the tree, select "Copy to Clipboard" from the bottom of the menu and paste into a post here.

 

-Xathros

[JSP0511]

Good. then we are on the right track here. Can you copy and post one or two of your programs please. Your stat should not revert to 57 unless your programs are telling it to.

 

Right click program name in the tree, select "Copy to Clipboard" from the bottom of the menu and paste into a post here.

 

-Xathros

 

I will post some therm programs tonight.

 

I just checked again (mobilinc) and the therm is now reading 61 (from 61.5) and the setpoint is back to 57. When I change it to 59...after about 5-10 seconds and a refresh, it's back to 57. The daytime temp program is 60.

 

Interesting... I just set it to 63, started calling for heat and after a refresh, reverted back to 57, heating now off of course.

 

If I set it to 63, then close mobilinc on my iphone then reopen, the therm still reads 63 and heating.

 

If i hit the little refresh button on the therm section of mobilinc, it goes back to 57

[Xathros]

What model stat is this? This certainly does not sound like the right behavior to me. I still think comm failure.

 

-Xathros

[JSP0511]

What model stat is this? This certainly does not sound like the right behavior to me. I still think comm failure.

 

-Xathros

 

2441TH - INSTEON Thermostat

[Xathros]

What model stat is this? This certainly does not sound like the right behavior to me. I still think comm failure.

 

-Xathros

 

2441TH - INSTEON Thermostat

 

OK. I don't own that model so maybe someone else can comment on it's desire to return to 57. I still don't believe it should do that on its own. I believe this IS the model reported with a very directional antenna so IO am going to stick with my recommendation to install an access point across from it.

 

-Xathros

[JSP0511]

What model stat is this? This certainly does not sound like the right behavior to me. I still think comm failure.

 

-Xathros

 

2441TH - INSTEON Thermostat

 

OK. I don't own that model so maybe someone else can comment on it's desire to return to 57. I still don't believe it should do that on its own. I believe this IS the model reported with a very directional antenna so IO am going to stick with my recommendation to install an access point across from it.

 

-Xathros

 

Will do. I'll respond to your request above later tonight as well.

[JSP0511]

Good. then we are on the right track here. Can you copy and post one or two of your programs please. Your stat should not revert to 57 unless your programs are telling it to.

 

Right click program name in the tree, select "Copy to Clipboard" from the bottom of the menu and paste into a post here.

 

-Xathros

 

Yikes! I think I know why the stat was reverting to 57. My Tstat (Work) Scene is set to 57, not 60 like I originally thought.

 

Scenes

Tstat Away-Sleep = 62

Tstat Home = 67

Tstat Weekend Home = 65

Tstat Work = 57

 

Good. then we are on the right track here. Can you copy and post one or two of your programs please. Your stat should not revert to 57 unless your programs are telling it to.

 

Right click program name in the tree, select "Copy to Clipboard" from the bottom of the menu and paste into a post here.

 

-Xathros

 

Week Evening

If
       On Mon, Tue, Wed, Thu, Fri
       From     3:31:00PM
       To      11:00:00PM (same day)
   And Status  'Main Floor / Thermostat / Thermostat - Main' is Mode Heat
   And Status  'Main Floor / Away Mode- FKPL B' is Off

Then
       Set Scene 'Scenes / Tstat (Home)' On

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

Week Sleep

If
       On Mon, Tue, Wed, Thu, Fri
       From    11:01:00PM
       To       5:00:00AM (next day)
   And Status  'Main Floor / Thermostat / Thermostat - Main' is Mode Heat
   And Status  'Main Floor / Away Mode- FKPL B' is Off

Then
       Set Scene 'Scenes / Tstat (Away-Sleep)' On

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

Week Wake Up

If
       On Mon, Tue, Wed, Thu, Fri
       From     5:01:00AM
       To       7:00:00AM (same day)
   And Status  'Main Floor / Thermostat / Thermostat - Main' is Mode Heat
   And Status  'Main Floor / Away Mode- FKPL B' is Off

Then
       Set Scene 'Scenes / Tstat (Home)' On

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

Week Day

If
       On Mon, Tue, Wed, Thu, Fri
       From     7:01:00AM
       To       3:30:00PM (same day)
   And Status  'Main Floor / Thermostat / Thermostat - Main' is Mode Heat
   And Status  'Main Floor / Away Mode- FKPL B' is Off

Then
       Set Scene 'Scenes / Tstat (Work)' On

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

Though we may have found why the therm goes to 57 at times, at least you can look at my programs to see if I should adjust anything.

 

My question now is, why when I changed the set point with mobilinc to 58, 59, etc did it revert back to 57 after refreshing the therm in mobilinc? Shouldn't I be able to override the program manually, at least until the next program time hits?

 

I apologize for the confusion.

[JSP0511]

 

Xathros, first thank you! Can the current room temp somehow be included in the notification message?

 

Yes! You can use a substitution variable in the email notification to reference the thermostats Status (temp). The would look like: $(sys.node.11 22 AA 1.ST) where 11 22 AA is the addrrss of the stat.

 

-Xathros

 

Xathros,

 

Could you explain how I would go about setting up this variable?

 

My Tstat address is 22 17 8E

 

I tried to simply add $(sys.node.22 17 8E 1.ST) to the body of my email and as I expected, it did not work. I tried setting up a variable but after naming the newly added variable, I didn't know how to set up the init or value.

[Xathros]

 

Xathros,

 

Could you explain how I would go about setting up this variable?

 

My Tstat address is 22 17 8E

 

I tried to simply add $(sys.node.22 17 8E 1.ST) to the body of my email and as I expected, it did not work. I tried setting up a variable but after naming the newly added variable, I didn't know how to set up the init or value.

 

My BAD! Wrong () Should be {} Try: ${sys.node.22 17 8E 1.ST}

 

-Xathros

[JSP0511]

So I am not setting the variable up ahead of time? The code simply takes care of it?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Xathros]

Right. That is a system variable - not a user defined one. See this section of the Wiki for more:

 

http://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY-99i_Series_INSTEON:Custom_Email_Substitution_Variables

 

-Xathros

[JSP0511]

Right. That is a system variable - not a user defined one. See this section of the Wiki for more:

 

http://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY-99i_Series_INSTEON:Custom_Email_Substitution_Variables

 

-Xathros

 

Worked like a charm! Thank you.

 

~Jerry

[JSP0511]

Xathros,

 

One other thing. I posted some of my programs early in the thread. When i manually change the tstat temp either on my phone or at the unit, shortly after it reverts back to the temp that the program is calling for.

 

Is there any way to tell my programs to hold the setpoint that is set manually if the temp lets say my wife is calling for is different from the temp of the program?

[Xathros]

I just reviewed your programs and see no reason why the stat would revert to the Work scene after a manual change. I wouldn't think that a change in the temp reading would trigger "Status Mode is Heat". Is there anything changing your AwayMode button?

 

-Xathros

[JSP0511]

I just reviewed your programs and see no reason why the stat would revert to the Work scene after a manual change. I wouldn't think that a change in the temp reading would trigger "Status Mode is Heat". Is there anything changing your AwayMode button?

 

-Xathros

 

When I press the away button, that programs simply tells the Tstat to call for 62 degrees, not one of the pre-set temp scenes. But if you notice in my regular programs, one of the determining factors that a temp scene is used is if my KPL Away mode button (FKPL is OFF.

 

Once I turn Away mode on, the other tstat programs are deactivated therefore would not change the 62 degrees setpoint back to "Work", "Day", "Sleep" or "Wake up".

 

I also just tested this from my phone. With Away mode on, set point is 62. When I change the setpoint with the phone to anything other than 62 but then hit refresh, it goes back to 62, similar to when any other tstat program is running.

 

Pretty much, which ever program is running overrides my manuals change almost instantly. It seems I would have to some how tell the program to allow a manual adjustment until the next program is called for?

[Xathros]

I wonder if Mobilinc is enforcing the scene for you. I don't use scenes with my TStat which might explain why I don't see this problem. I have my programs simply change the setpoint rather than call a scene.

 

Try this when you are home. Instead of using the phone, use the stat to change the set point up or down a degree or two. see if it changes back on it's own after a few minutes. If not, take out your phone and refresh - again, see if it changes.

 

-Xathros

[JSP0511]

I wonder if Mobilinc is enforcing the scene for you. I don't use scenes with my TStat which might explain why I don't see this problem. I have my programs simply change the setpoint rather than call a scene.

 

Try this when you are home. Instead of using the phone, use the stat to change the set point up or down a degree or two. see if it changes back on it's own after a few minutes. If not, take out your phone and refresh - again, see if it changes.

 

-Xathros

 

I've done this as well and it does revert back after a minute or two.

 

When away mode is set, that program calls for a temp (62), not a scene and it still reverts back as well.

[Xathros]

Not having one of the Insteon TStats to play with, I'm afraid I'm running out of ideas on this one. I have not seen this behavior reported here before and can only attribute this to program activity.

 

Can you monitor the ISY Log and see if there are any entries at the time the stat reverts back. Also check last run times on programs for a matching time stamp.

 

-Xathros