Quest for a better Outdoor Motion Sensor

[m6bigdog]

So I took a run of the mill 115Vac powered Motion Sensor and Insteon 2442-222 Micro Dimmer.

I have yet to ring out all the programming issues or have a reliable Motion Light so I am wondering if someone has already tried this and/or can point me in the right direction.

 

I wired the Motion Sensor control output (red wire) to the #1 sense input (yellow wire) for a Micro Dimmer and the Micro Dimmer output powers the light.

 

I added the Micro Dimmer to my ISY and set the option configuration to "Momentary (Latch-unchecked) and Single Line (checked).

I set the Motion Sensor output timer to the minimum (5 seconds) for the momentary input for the #1 sense ON input.

 

Questions:

1) Will this pairing function as I anticipate? i.e., switch ON the Micro Dimmer from motion sensor (5 second ON duration) and the ability to fully control the Micro Dimmer output after the Motion Sensor has switched ON the Micro Dimmer?

2) Will Using the control off for the Micro Dimmer reset the Momentary ON (#1 sense input - yellow wire)?

 

My logic is the Motion Sensor switches ON the Micro Dimmer and YSI programming controls the Micro Dimmer ON duration, ON/OFF ramp, scene level %, and with the ability to control the Micro Dimmer from other Insteon devices in a non-motion sensor scene.

 

Thanks

[Xathros]

I think you may need to check the latching option if you want the light to remain on when the sensor turns back off.

 

-Xathros

[m6bigdog]

I think you may need to check the latching option if you want the light to remain on when the sensor turns back off.

 

-Xathros

Thanks for the reply,

 

Wouldn't the Latching/Single configuration setup the Micro Dimmer so the motion sensor controlled the ON duration? Latching input configuration is a viable option but may interfere with the control logic.

 

In latching mode will the program command(s) override the local Switch position/input?

i.e., the motion sensor times out and the ISY program wants the light to stay on. I want the motion sensor to only turn the Micro Dimmer ON and only the YSI programming can turn the Micro Dimmer ON or OFF.

 

Anybody know the period for the switch momentary tap to become a Press & Hold (Brighten/Dim) control?

[Xathros]

I'm not sure. I find the documentation for these micro modules confusing at best. Without doing some specific testing, I can't say for sure. If I get some time this weekend, i'll try to do some testing. I have a spare micro module to play with so it shouldn't be a big deal.

 

-Xathros

[m6bigdog]

(Reply edited 3/13/14):

I have discovered an issue with the Micro Module Dimmer - 2442-222 and ISY994i/IR.

The Momentary/Latching switch and Single/Double Momentary modes are not "correctly(edit)" programmed from the ISY management console, Micro Dimmer Device, "Device Options" dialog window.

 

I have tried this on 3 Micro Module Dimmers and the only way I could initially get the motion sensor to control either unit correctly was to manually program the module for latch mode even though the module default mode is latching mode. Also, so the motion sensor input is always a normal toggle switch input (yellow wire) the 3-way toggle mode needed to be manually disabled. Also, the Query does not "correctly(edit)" report the actual modes manually programmed.

 

(Edit 3/12/14): - I discovered by testing the Micro Dimmer Module's and ISY programming functions "Latching (off)Momentary" and "Single Line (off)Dual Line" check box functions are reversed. So for latching mode the "Latching" box must be unchecked and for "Single Line" the box must be unchecked, however the "Line High always on" works correctly so if you want to disable the module's 3-way switch function the box must be checked!!

 

At first I though I had a problem with either the line and/or wireless communication or the RAB Mini output did not switch low enough (30vac OFF and 120Vac ON with out a bulb connected - see update below for motion sensor output fix) but I made sure that was not the issue by setting up the RAB Mini Motion sensor with the Micro Dimmer next to an Access Point and all devices communicate back to the PLM.

 

Once the Micro Dimmer module is manually configured as a latching switch with 3-way disabled the motion sensor controls the light and programming can also enhance the motion sensor control without the control and/or program control logic becoming reversed. (Edit added): Also, setting the ISY - Micro Dimmer Module - Device Option with "Latching" unchecked and "Line High always ON" checked sets the module correctly for Latching with 3-way disabled.

 

Update for using the Mini RAB SMS500 Motion Sensor with the Micro Module Dimmer.

I added a series 600 ohm resister + .1 microfarad capacitor (snubber network) between the Motion Sensor relay output/ sense #1 input to Neutral as a load.

 

Problem Details:

While I was troubleshooting another problem with Event Viewer I noticed both Micro Module Dimmers were intermittently sending out bursts of DOF = 0; sometimes as often as every second for several minutes. Since the SMS500 has some sort of network around the internal dry contact relay the OFF (open circuit) Vac on the relay output is 30-42 Vac and I anticipate this is making the Micro Module sense #1 input (yellow wire) trigger as though the motion sensor is repeatedly turning OFF.

 

Fix Details:

I installed a snubber network devices I had in my parts bins (series 600 ohm + .1 microfarad cap/600V) from the motion sensor relay output/sense #1 input to neutral.

The snubber's 60 Hz impedance is 28k ohms and that was sufficient to reduce the motion sensor output/sensor #1 input to 2.5 Vac.

This snubber network power draw is 1/2 watt when the motion sensor relay is ON and negligible power when relay is off.

 

Once the snubber was wired in the DOF=0 from the Micro Module Dimmers stopped completely and after 10 hours of monitoring the Event Viewer I have yet to see a single rogue DOF=0 from either Micro Module Dimmer.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi m6bigdog,

 

I am so very sorry to hear. Would you be kind enough to send the screenshot of the Options dialog for the module after you have configured it manually? Please send to support@universal-devices.com.

 

Thanks in advance and with kind regards,

Michel

[shifmeister]

I know this is an older post, but hopefully someone has had some luck with setting up a micro module with an existing motion controlled light and could help me out.

 

I have four exterior fixtures with built-in motion detectors (2 sconces, 2 floodlights) that I am trying to integrate with the micro module for a little more fine grained control.  I have one of the sconces pulled and onto by workbench for testing this setup and I am almost where I want to be.  The wiring is pretty straight forward: neutrals together, light hot to micro load, red switched wire from motion sensor to yellow sense 1 wire.

 

My issue at this point is getting the software to behave correctly.  Ideally, I would like the motion sensor to just send a signal to the ISY and have programs there handle the timing.  I know that the sense wire is unable to be fully disconnected from the local load, so this is not perfectly possible without a pair of micro modules (1 to sense, 1 to control the light).  That is not a solution I want to go towards for expense reasons.

 

I would be OK with the motion sensor turning on the light, but don't want it to turn the light off.  This way I can override the motion sensor if desired.  I can have it do this if I set the micro module to Dual Momentary, Not a 3-way within the ISY options menu.  Under this, the micro module sends a FDUP command with motion and FDSTOP when the motion sensor clicks off.  I can work with this.  My issue is that if a Momentary button is held for more than 5 seconds, the module enters "Set" mode.  This causes the module to stop sending commands until it is power cycled.  Not ideal.

 

What settings on the micro module have worked for you guys?

[stusviews]

I have no options checked at all. Which momentary button are you holding?

[DavidJ101]

So you're hooking the motion sensor output to the yellow (sense 1) wire and setting the mode on the Micro Module to Dual Momentary. You're not hooking anything to the Sense 2 wire. I see what you're doing. With the motion output "pressing" the on momentary button (sense 1) it turns on the light but since there's nothing to "press" the off momentary button it doesn't turn it off. I also see the issue because once motion is detected, it holds the Sense 1 line high (holds the on button on) until the 'motion not detected' timer times out and the Micro Module thinks it should go into 'set' mode after the button (sense) is held for 5 seconds. I'm not sure what you can do about that. The only way that I can think to 'fix' it is to add an 'One Shot' timer. OF course that may be as expensive as adding a second Micro Module.

[shifmeister]

Stusviews, thanks for the input.  I've got the motion sensor output wired to sense 1, as DavidJ101 describes.

 

 

David, that's exactly what I am trying to do.  It does sound like I am up against a limitation of the hardware.

 

I thought about the pulse circuit.  I've seen stuff that would work with low voltage DC circuits.  High voltage AC is another beast.  Maybe use a AC relay to trip a 555 timer circuit which causes another relay to trip and signal the sense wire.  That is quickly using up all the volume in my wiring box, if it will even work.

 

 

I remember reading the old In-Line Lincs would disregard the sense wire with a Fast On or Fast Off command.  I've had no luck with that option in the new micro modules.