Apple HomeKit?

[G W]

UDI will have to speak for UDI. Personally, I have no interest in HomeKit. I'm heavily divested of any one technically.

 

UDI will do what is best for UDI without regard to our personal feelings.

 

Short and to the point.

Best regards,

Gary Funk

[jtara92101]

Since I have not yet joined the MFi program, I went and read some of the code in the nodeJS bridge project. 

 

Looks pretty simple.

 

You need a HAP (= Home Accessory Protocol) server. It's HTTP with some extensions. It doesn't seem to use SSL, but some elliptic encryption of content. (Javascript code included in the project). You advertise your server on a LAN using Bonjour (or call it zeroconf if you prefer). There is no chip.

 

I'm guessing you get some ID range to use when you sign-up for the program. And I guess these open-source projects are making one up. (Came across this in the code.)

 

One project got a DMCA takedown notice for HAP documentation, but apparently not for the code derived from that documentation.

 

Another project, same developer also has an App Store app for configuring HomeKit, which is curious, though I see the app is still in beta. (But listed in the actual App Store available for beta download...)

 

So if you want to experiment with these rogue servers on a raspberry pi or your desktop, it seems Apple is only mildly interested in swatting them. They shut-down publishing the details in an easily-accessible way, but have allowed the open-source code to remain.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi perma,

 

Thank you for the feedback and purchasing ISY. We have looked at HomeBridge. At the moment, the main issue is hardware requirements. i.e. we need to move to a new hardware. As such, if HomeKit is your requirement, it's best to return your ISY since, when we support HomeKit, you will either need a new hardware or an additional hardware just for HomeKit support.

 

Hi all,

 

Thank you for the lively discussion. It seems that in this day and age, everything has become like politics: passion about something/someone overrules everything else. Down in the trenches - and as Gary so eloquently outlined - we need to make sure we are alive and have a sustainable business first. For as long as I can remember, we have been told that we would be forgotten in a few days/months/years, that we belong in the dustbin of history, and for a variety of reasons. The only reasons we are still here are a) supporting community (all you guys) with invaluable feedback and our laser sharp focus on our goal of creating robust and resilient automation products and framework (thank you mwester). Automation requires device support and interaction with other services. And, thus the reason for spending an enormous amount of time and resources on 5.0 and Node Servers (and we are very close).

 

Had HomeKit been like Amazon Echo, it would have been done as quickly as we did Alexa. If IFTTT didn't require $3K/year recurring fee, we would have had our own channel in a day. So, going back to being in the trenches: we just have to make sure a) we stay in business and we do not lose focus of our main goal while investigating integration with other services.

 

jtara92101,

 

1) We signed up for a developer account as soon as MiFi was announced and we get all the MiFi communications and closely follow all the changes (hoping that they become more like Amazon)

2) It's very easy to comfortably sit behind a computer and decide what a company should or should not do (I do that all the time myself!). It's much more difficult when you have to make sure the company is sustainable

 

 

Thanks again,

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[jtara92101]

 We signed up for a developer account as soon as MiFi was announced and we get all the MiFi communications and closely follow all the changes (hoping that they become more like Amazon)

 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

Now, let's all just stop using these invalid red herring excuses:

 

1. Big scary license

2. Can't get documentation

 

BTW, there also is no big scary certification program either, so let's not start on that one. There is an online self-certification. I gather you attest this that and the other.

 

It's not going to become more like Amazon, because that would make it dependent on "cloud" services. And that is something that UDI seems to want to avoid. (Which I agree with.) Homekit makes no sense as a cloud service. It works the way I wish Nest would. (LOCAL communication between LOCAL devices. Cloud service to augment.)

 

UDI has determined their current hardware can't do the job. Since there is no chip, I have to conclude the issue is processor speed and/or memory. UDI will increasingly run up against those limitations when interfacing with many technologies, not just HomeKit. 

 

A homekit server can be put together easily mainly from open-source libraries. Open-source libraries that are designed, though, for the popular OSs of today. Unfortunately, that leaves ISY out. This is probably at least as much of an issue as processor speed or memory.

 

Once 5.x is done, UDI will need to sell a Raspberry Pi or similar box, or will need to recommend one. Of course, desktop, server, or router will do the job too. This will make for some *interesting* marketing double-speak!

 

While as an engineer I am repulsed at the thought, but why not package a Linux/ARM board and the existing board (maybe work out a way for at least two daughter cards while you are at it!) in a single case? The average user will not know or care that there are more than one computer in the box. In fact, almost every consumer device we use today contains multiple processors. For those that you ship to engineers, can you perhaps include a clothes-pin so that we don't notice the smell?

[Michel Kohanim]

Yes sir!

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[G W]

Can we also stop telling UDI what UDI needs to do?

 

Only UDI knows what UDI needs to do and that's based on what UDI wants for it's future.

 

Short and to the point.

Best regards,

Gary Funk

[mango]

Has anyone considered using an Insteon Hub which does have Homekit alongside the ISY?

The hub would be used as a dumbed down translator.

[Teken]

Has anyone considered using an Insteon Hub which does have Homekit alongside the ISY?

The hub would be used as a dumbed down translator.

 

http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/17271-hub-ii-isy-echo-integration/

[mango]

I should RTFF thanks. Now Apple are going to be doing cool things with home screen et al I'm getting interested.

[Teken]

I should RTFF thanks. Now Apple are going to be doing cool things with home screen et al I'm getting interested.

 

To be clear no one in this or other forums has ever written about connecting a HUB Pro with a ISY Series Controller. Should you decide to do so please take a few moments and share the journey and caveats you run into.

[mango]

Yeah I'm reading that. I just think Apples front end would be a really nice interface to talk through. I'll do some more investigation. You can bank on good development cycles and support (read: cash thrown at it). As to how well Insteon Hub integrates into it I'm looking at.

 

/edited again due to incompetence when using Crapachat.

[fitzpatri8]

I recommend you look more closely at iOS 10 and the latest tvOS before suggesting U-D spend $$$ on HomeKit-compatible hardware.

 

As was suggested much earlier in this thread, with the latest releases it appears Apple is now encouraging users to employ an iPad or Apple TV in the house as a home automation hub, not just a remote. Apple software running on that hub handles dynamic IP address forwarding for remote access, scheduled device and scene operation, device grouping, automation based on geofences, and more, and third party developers are already building more powerful logic engines atop that foundation.

 

Apple users don't need a new ISY. They only need an ISY iOS/tvOS app that will interact with whatever other HomeKit-compatible interfaces and devices you have in your house.

[jtara92101]

Apple users don't need a new ISY. They only need an ISY iOS/tvOS app that will interact with whatever other HomeKit-compatible interfaces and devices you have in your house

 

 

So, an app running on Apple TV would interact with both HomeKit devices and ISY. It would act as a "gateway" of sorts.

 

Such an app requires only a normal Apple Developer account to deploy to the App Store. No Scary License.

 

This makes Apple TV another alternative to a Raspberry Pi, desktop, your router, etc. for making gateways between ISY and other products in the home - including both HomeKit and non-Homekit devices.

[paulbates]

.....

Apple users don't need a new ISY. They only need an ISY iOS/tvOS app that will interact with whatever other HomeKit-compatible interfaces and devices you have in your house.

 

Beautiful. This is a great solution, when I have to confess I previously saw all of the problems. The tvOS app would act both as a mobile app gateway for ISY control via homekit, and also a nodeserver that extended appletv control to the ISY.

[fitzpatri8]

So, an app running on Apple TV would interact with both HomeKit devices and ISY. It would act as a "gateway" of sorts.

Negative, that architecture would be duplicative and only constrain the app.

 

An ISY HomeKit app running on an in-home iPad or Apple TV would make current ISY hardware completely redundant. The two could replace the ISY hardware entirely and speak to any devices (Insteon, Zwave, Zigbee, Bluetooth, Wemo, Hue, etc.) via direct http://, via HomeKit; and/or via HomeKit interfaces like the Hub Pro.

[mango]

I wonder if Mobilinc would consider the tie-in...

 

Insteon Hub looks like it's prone to having issues.

[asbril]

Can anyone enlighten me what the future is between Zwave and Apple's Homekit ?  I would assume / hope that someone will come with a bridge as otherwise Apple's size and strength might displace Zwave all together. Am I right ?????

[MWareman]

 

 

Can anyone enlighten me what the future is between Zwave and Apple's Homekit ?

You'd be better off asking this question to Apple.

[lilyoyo1]

I recommend you look more closely at iOS 10 and the latest tvOS before suggesting U-D spend $$$ on HomeKit-compatible hardware.

 

As was suggested much earlier in this thread, with the latest releases it appears Apple is now encouraging users to employ an iPad or Apple TV in the house as a home automation hub, not just a remote. Apple software running on that hub handles dynamic IP address forwarding for remote access, scheduled device and scene operation, device grouping, automation based on geofences, and more, and third party developers are already building more powerful logic engines atop that foundation.

 

Apple users don't need a new ISY. They only need an ISY iOS/tvOS app that will interact with whatever other HomeKit-compatible interfaces and devices you have in your house.

In order for a device to be used with Homekit,  it must have the chip in it which will require new hardware from UDI. An Ipad can be left in the home for remote access in place of using an apple tv, The hardware it talks to however has to have the chip inside. 

 

I dont blame UDI for waiting to add homekit support. Its easy as a consumer to say add support for whatever new technology pops up. However, from a company standpoint, the resources it requires could hurt it even more. It's not simply putting a chip in a device. Its also making sure you do not adversely affect how that device operates; especially when it's not you controlling a portion of how it works.

 

There are many many failed companies out there who has jumped on the latest and greatest fad only to fail soon after. Yet, here we are with the ISY which continues to forge ahead. For all of the complaints about the ISY, the one you do not hear is how they shut down. Slow and steady wins the race. Yes it sucks to have to use a rasberry pi.

 

You can complain about the lack of power with the ISY but you fail to realize this iteration came about before all that you have now. While it may feel under powered compared to a RPI, many are using it for purposes that it was never designed for.  For me, this is a great bridge to the future. Extending the capabilities of the current system until the next iteration comes along. What controller out there does that? Cloud based controllers change all the time and at a much faster pace. However, you're at their mercy should whatever company choose to pull the plug on support/development.

 

The true strength of the ISY shines with using rasberry pi. The fact that you can now control your own destiny without waiting on UDI to support something or make a whole new controller. If having the latest and greatest regardless of outcome is that important then the ISY is not for you. If having the best matters most, then the ISY is the perfect choice.

[icerabbit]

" Thanks so very much for the feedback. Currently we have absolutely no plans to support HomeKit unless it can be done in the cloud. At the moment, that does not seem feasible. As such, you are welcome to look for other solutions. "

 

Call me extremely disappointed by the above and follow up responses.

 

I understand hardware, $$$ and time are involved ... but I think it is critical voice / siri / homekit will be supported.

 

Unanswered question:

 

Does the hardware encryption chipset need to be in a new insteon modem? in the isy? both?

 

Thing is:

I used to be the only one among friends and family with a mac ... now it is like 75%.

iPhone. Same.

iPad. Same.

They are simply everywhere.

And the better anything works with Apple the better it sells these days.

 

Homekit compatibility seems like it will happen. People are asking about it. More partners are being announced.

 

How do we PLM + ISY folks move forward?

 

The extra browser with isy homepage, needing to log on every time, html access thing is not keeping up with the times. I tolerate it, but friends & family do not like it.

 

The 3rd party visual iphone/ipad intellihome app developer is missing in action.

 

I was hoping I/we could get voice via Siri and his app, but I have not heard any development word in over a year, I'm guessing.

[G W]

Complain to Apple for making it so difficult. I'm on Android and don't have any of the issues you outlined.

 

Short and to the point.

Best regards,

Gary Funk

[lilyoyo1]

While you're friends may have Macs, PC still own over 90% of the market. The ISY needs the chip in it. UDI may support Apple in time but only if it means it will benefit them. There are other ways to have voice control. Better ways at that than Siri.

 

Even using this forum as a small sample, while there are those who want home kit, most could care less. The avg. Consumer who wants things simple probably will not buy the ISY regardless of what UDI does. However, for those who wants something that gives full control then the ISY is king. Even those who want home kit aren't running away from the ISY to have it

[TheFallenAngel]

I don't see any reason (logic or business whise) for UDI to jump on the Home Kit Fad. All Apple-centric people for some reason think Apple is a HUGE think but it's not, more then 90% of the pie goes to Windows, Linux and Android.

 

It's amusing how Apple is the company who doesn't play well with others but then the Apple owners are first to cry to the rest of the world - why you didn't play well Apple products..

 

With Home Kit they are trying to catchup with the HA world.. Nothing wrong with that! BUT the HA world doesn't and will not revolve around Apple infrastructure.

 

As for that 75% of one poster's friends switching to Apple I am not gonna comment on that (chuckle) but my personal email perchance is that a lot of my friends have shipped Apple in the last few years and went back to Windows and Android - and ALL go very good reasons.. I had 27" iMac, Mac Book Air, iPad and iPhone.. Thankfully all that is gone now and replaced with this that work as I need them too, and finally allowing me to do every I want, not only the things they allow me to.. This does show to me the serious restrictions of anything Apple does and why I would not ever invest in anything so closed off, to a point of being frustrating and not so useful..

 

Back to the beginning, (with no presumption of suggesting what they have to do as many above) UDI can deadly ignore Home Kit for now and concentrate on the Node Servers, more complete Z-Wave (I have none but it's the biggest on the pie chart) and maybe Logitech native support wink wink

 

 

Cheers,

Alex

[icerabbit]

It would be nice if people would be so kind to refrain from resorting to Apple bashing.

[G W]

It would be nice if people would be so kind to refrain from resorting to Apple bashing.

I bash them all equally.

 

Best regards,

Gary Funk