AprilAire 8800 Thermostats and ISY / ELK

[telljcl]

Maybe this would be better suited for the ELK area, but I've installed a few AprilAire 8800's to try out and had a few questions.

 

There seems to be a very limited number of things you can "check" (or change) via the ELK / ISY rules / programs as it relates to these (or any?) thermostats.

 

For example, there appears to be no way to see if the compressor is actually running or not.  You can see if the thermostat is in "cool", "heat" or "auto" mode, but can't confirm what the compressor is doing.  I guess you could compare the set point temp (which you can poll) to the room temp (you can also poll that) and make a guess as to whether the compressor is running or not.  You also can't tell if the fan is running - only if it is set to "auto", "on", or "circ".

 

For a while now I've had relays on my HVAC units that tell the ELK if the compressor(s) are running, and which stage, so I can program certain things as a result.  I can also keep track of cycles, "On" time, overlap, etc...  I thought with these new thermostats I wouldn't need my old solution, but turns out I do.

 

Also it appears that most or all of the Thermostat setup settings are not available through ISY / ELK.

 

You also can't see what the exterior temperature sensor is reading, and you also can't do any programming of time period / temperature settings.  All this still has to be done at the Thermostat.  I think you can do it with an RS-232 connection, a computer and a lot of cryptic command syntax, but is there no interface / program out there where you can access any of this for program purposes from ISY or ELK?

 

Not sure if this makes any sense, but it is a little frustrating to spend additional money and still not have a whole lot more control over this stuff.

 

Any direction would be appreciated as I'm not very good at the ISY and am completely new to the thermostat integration part.

 

Thanks!

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello telljcl,

 

Unfortunately none of those functions (especially configuring the thermostat) are available through ELK APIs. We have basically implemented all the APIs related to thermostats.

 

This is precisely the reason why you had to use relays before ... i.e. the APIs do not support these features. I am so very sorry.

 

Please note that we have 30 day full money back guarantee on all our products. If this is not meeting your requirements, please send an email to sales@universal-devices.com and request for a refund.

 

Again, I am so very sorry.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[ISYhbsh01]

How about getting the Venstar thermostats which are fully supported by ISY?

 

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk

[telljcl]

Thanks, Michel. Not what I wanted to hear, but thanks.  I've had the ISY a long time so not a huge issue, but I just always have trouble understanding what the ELK, or ISY, or any gizmo that might "connect" with it / them will or won't do.  Buy and Try I guess.

 

hbsh01 - thanks for the suggestion on Venstar.  Which model of Venstar would this be, and when you say fully supported, does that mean everything you can see on the thermostat, and program into the thermostat, is also do-able from within ISY?  So this does not connect to the ELK in any way?  How does Venstar connect to the ISY?

 

Thanks for your time.

[ISYhbsh01]

See this link at Smarthome's website for a list of Venstars: http://www.smarthome.com/_/INSTEON/Thermostats_HVAC_Controls/_/23b/J/nav.aspx

 

Edit: I just noticed that the Venstar T1700, T1800, and T1900 don't come up on that list. So just do a search on their website for Venstar & you would find those. The T1xx is the residential line while the T2xx series is supposed to be the commercial line. I am not sure though what the difference is.

 

They connect to the ISY as native Insteon devices. Some of them have the Insteon module integrated into the thermostat, while with some you will need to buy this Insteon Adapter: http://www.smarthome.com/2441V/Thermostat-Adapter-INSTEON-and-Totaline-Venstar-Compatible/p.aspx

 

Everything you can do on the thermostat in terms of setting the setpoints, cooling/heating modes of operation, and timers, can be done from the ISY and much more. As a matter of fact, most if not all people don't even bother setting anything up within the thermostat itself & do all the programming within the ISY. I personally never even setup the date & time on the thermostat.

 

I should mention though that there are more advanced settings on the thermostat like setting the deadband and the like, which are not supposed to be changed on a regular basis if at all, those cannot be done from the ISY.

 

It does not have anything to do with ELK. 

 

Edit: It's possible that you can control the Venstar somehow from the ELK using the ISY Elk module if that's what you want. I don't have an ELK so I don't know. But you definitely don't NEED the ELK to control the thermostat.

[telljcl]

Thanks! That's good concise information. 

 

It appears, however, that the communication is Insteon RF, which I'm not a big fan of.  I've got probably 80 Insteon units at the moment, and while most of the wired units have "essentially" 100% reliability, the RF-only ones range from about what the wired ones are down to 25% or maybe worse.  I'm sure my home has some electrical issues I haven't found, and I could move modules around etc..., but I want my HVAC equipment to be bulletproof.

 

For this reason, I run most or all of what I deem "mission critical" stuff through the ELK (all wired) if at all possible.  Also the reason I'm not looking at Z-Wave T-Stats.

 

I do realize RF communication varies and some environments (and some people's luck!) are better than others, but I don't want to depend on Insteon RF in this application.

 

I am very curious about the Venstar WiFi units though - WiFi is the one RF protocol I'd probably gamble with, as I don't see people complaining about dropped links etc... with these units.

 

If there was an ELK "Plugin" for WiFi Venstar, that would be ideal, but perhaps the bridge software mentioned above won't be too cumbersome. 

 

Thanks again for the insight.

[Teken]

May I suggest you do a quick search with in the forums for NEST TSTAT. There have been a few related updates and members who have been able to link the two together.

 

But, keep in mind it also requires a computer to be running 24/7/365 for some aspects of the program. I personally am going to wait for ISY native support instead. As I am not a huge fan on middle ware / servers playing a part in something as critical as your HVAC.

 

I have six Insteon Venstar 1800 / 1900 units at the moment which are not used very much at this point in time. Perhaps this fall I will finally take the dive and install one of them to control the HVAC.

[ISYhbsh01]

It appears, however, that the communication is Insteon RF, 

 

Yes that's correct, it is RF only. I personally have 2 Venstars and an access point within 15 feet of each & never had any issues.

[telljcl]

Interesting on the Nest units.  Not a big fan of those, but I'm glad someone has them working together with ISY and / or ELK.

 

Haven't seen any info on the new Honeywell "smart" units (not the older z-wave one) either - I wonder if anyone has been able to get those to work with ISY or ELK.  

 

All these manufacturers are happy to make an "app" to control their stuff, but only if a user wants to do the controlling manually, while holding a tablet or phone, in real time.  What genius it would be to AUTOMATE some of this action, based on changing conditions!  Seems simple enough but I guess they don't want to miss out on an opportunity to make another dollar.