edokid Posted September 3, 2014 Posted September 3, 2014 I'm trying to figure out what system go with as I have a bunch of Insteon devices and the Hub, so either getting the ISY994 or HomeSeer on a PC. I'm really leaning towards HomeSeer as I like the interface, Insteon seems to work great, and although expensive, I love their HSTouch designer to let me make iPad and android interfaces. My main reason though is because it supports Z-Wave, which I want because I don't like any Insteon door locks or thermostats. I was originally going to get the ISY994 since I saw you can add Z-Wave, but a lot of forum posts seem to make it sound like it's spotty. I saw ones talking about the Yale locks and the trouble making it work, then he had it finally working and then a week later more posts saying it's not working anymore, and these were all from August 2014. Is Z-Wave on a ISY994 feasible with those people just being exceptions? Or is it basically hit or miss with it? I'm just trying to determine how important Z-Wave door locks, thermostats and the tablet apps really are, or if I could live without them since the ISY probably is more stable and supports Insteon better. The other thing is there doesn't seem to be as many good Android tablet apps, as I think MobiLinc is just for iPad since I don't see any HD versions in the app store, just ones for android phones. The reality here is that the iPad or android tablets that I wanted to mount on the walls in various places are really more just aesthetic since I can do the same thing on my own phone, or with Keypadlinc. So just wondering mostly I guess how well Z-Wave actually does work with it, or if it would be more like 1) Google the device you want to see if it actually works with Z-Wave on the ISY, 2) Try to follow someones guide to see how they made it work, 3) Pull your hair out for 2 days trying to make it work before giving up. Lol, or something like that! Thanks everyone!
Quasmo Posted September 3, 2014 Posted September 3, 2014 I was in the exact same boat as you, I have 40 Insteon devices, but I hated the Insteon door locks and thermostats. I have had a great experience with the ISY and Z-wave. I have two Kwikset 914 door locks, two Honeywell z-wave thermostats, and 2 aeon smart power plugs, all z-wave. Ironically, I feel like the z-wave devices respond more quickly and have better signal reliability than my Insteon devices. I've never had any communication issues with any of the Z-wave devices. All devices were setup quickly and without any problems.
edokid Posted September 3, 2014 Author Posted September 3, 2014 That's great thanks so much! Huge help then as that's what made me nervous as it seemed really hit or miss. Just a hard pill to swallow to buy HomeSeer even if it is good, as it's just so expensive. $250 for just the software, and then $200 for the designer to do your iPad and android tablets and so on (although cool) definitely adds up. Even if it was a physical piece of hardware for that $450 price it wouldn't be so bad, but expensive for software. My other issue with them also is every little add on and so on is an extra cost. It all sounded fine and dandy until I stopped and actually thought out what exactly I want to accomplish, and that's when I realized my programs are pretty basic. "If front door sensor goes open after 5PM and the front door light is on, do nothing. If it goes off and front door light is off, turn it on. If the door sensor changes to closed and the front door light was on, do nothing. If the door sensor changes to closed and the front door light was off, turn it off." I also wanted to put android tablets throughout the house running some interface, but I don't see MobiLinc for it and I liked that HomeSeer lets you really customize it if you buy their $200 program. Then I started thinking though, how often honestly would I really use that panel? Like I'd use it to enable Home vs Away mode or what not, plus the odd scene I suppose, but it would be pretty rare, and I think make more sense to go with the Keypadlinc. What I think I'm going to do is go with my Insteon Hub plus HouseLinc for now, and then when I have more devices I'll get the ISY. Right now I only have a wall dimmer switch, 4 LED bulbs, a motion sensor, 2 hidden door sensors, leak sensor, and 2 wall plug in dimmer modules. So all my ideas of "If I walk into the kitchen after dark, turn on the lights to 25% brightness" etc wouldn't even work since I don't even have the components to do it! Thanks!
Xathros Posted September 3, 2014 Posted September 3, 2014 Z-Wave has proven to be quite stable and reliable for me since the GenII board was installed. I'm very happy with the performance of the ISY with my Schlage ZWave locks. -Xathros
paulbates Posted September 3, 2014 Posted September 3, 2014 I think you figured it out. Insteon manufacturing comes down to 2 players, Insteon or Smartenit.... of those, mostly Insteon. There are problems with it but they are known problems. Zwave has some great quality devices, but its a multivendor world and a spread of prices and quality. Some research to do, as you point out. You can leverage your insteon investment and integrate zwave and insteon together on Homeseer or ISY. On Homeseer, you get get Mark Sandler's plugin and keep your Hub and insteon devices. That works very well. The zwave interface comes with HomeSeer. If you go with ISY, you'll need to get a Serial PLM. You do need to know, in both cases, you'll need for HomeSeer or ISY to "rediscover" your Insteon world. I went from HomeSeer / Hub to ISY / PLM recently and it took 3 to 4 hours to discover my 31 devices, reprogram groups, etc. I expected that and I got great support from UD. For the tablet interfaces, there are a lot of them. You'll want to check Homeseer's board to see how people are doing with it on HS3. I remember a number of stories. I think a new user going on to HS3, its better than someone who used it long term like I did.
rrathke Posted September 3, 2014 Posted September 3, 2014 I have 2 ISY devices in two physical locations. Both have Insteon and z-Wave, Aeon repeaters, Kwickset locks, garage door controls and Honeywell thermostats. Since the new z-wave firmware, April 2014, I have not had any significant problems with the units. All have performed without any significant problems. A key to using the devices is to first understand exactly how they respond, with that knowledge in hand the programing is straight forward logic. Each time I have added a new , to me, device I implement programs that report all events via a notify email for the device. This gives mea good understanding of the sequence of events the device implements. It also is good for debugging if you have a program problem. When done I just disable the diagnostic programs so they are there if I need them. Not all devices are created equal and/or have the same software levels.
edokid Posted September 3, 2014 Author Posted September 3, 2014 (edited) Thanks everyone that's a big help. I think the ISY is the way to go eventually. I have all these big dreams in my head and am trying to figure out the best controller, but then I have to stop and realize that I still need a ton of Insteon devices to even make any of this work, so might as well start out small and get all my components first. I bought at on that are coming today but most don't really require If, This, etc so I'm fine for now I think. Glad to hear that Z-Wave seems stable though with the ISY as that definitely helps. It would be nice if the ISY would support the Hub so that I don't have to buy a $80 2413S, so not sure if that would ever happen or if it's worth waiting for since I'm not in any rush. HomeSeer is really nice and works well but I can't really justify the cost, just because although my house isn't small, I don't have a pool or driveway lights or many areas where lots of scenes are necessary. If I watch a movie in the basement, all the light switches are right beside the couch, and we turn every one of them off, so it's not like there's any mood lighting to set. Most of what I want to accomplish is basic things, like opening a closet door and turning the light inside on automatically, etc. So I think the ISY will be the best option, since it's hardware based and not a PC, and then if it supports Z-Wave well like everyone is saying, I can at least add on those pieces later on as well. Edited September 3, 2014 by edokid
edokid Posted September 3, 2014 Author Posted September 3, 2014 Couple other things I just thought of. Do Z-Wave devices work the same as Insteon ones with the ISY? As in (assuming the devices work), can I have a Z-Wave wall switch turn on Insteon lights? Same with mobile apps like MobiLinc, will it show and control both Insteon and Z-Wave? Or do apps like that only see Insteon?
paulbates Posted September 3, 2014 Posted September 3, 2014 The ISY is an integration point where you weave these things together. It will treat each sensor and switch at separate devices; insteon or or zwave. So yes, they do operate the same internally and you can write programs on the ISY to include both. One subtlety, insteon and zwave as individual technologies have "scene" capability. Send one Scene command to a bunch of insteon devices and they all come on. Same is true for zwave. Automated lighting has a slight delay as its signal is sent. Scenes make this a short a time a possible. The issue becomes these are exclusive technologies.... Insteon scenes won't turn on zwave devices directly and vice versa. While an ISY program can make it cross technology events happen, you might see a delay as it does one, and then the other. The suggestion is grouping lighting technologies with a particular function. Let's say you were going to automate 3 lights with one switch. I would make the switch and lights all one technology- zwave or insteon.. don't mix and match. If you have another unrelated function, use whatever technology is best / lowest cost One other concept is SAF (spouse approval factor). If things are too different for simple things like different types of light switches, they can give a lower approval rating
Teken Posted September 3, 2014 Posted September 3, 2014 One other concept is SAF (spouse approval factor). If things are too different for simple things like different types of light switches, they can give a lower approval rating Clearly, this man has just won the Wife Award of the year for that ack! If the WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) is low, its going to be a very long and cold year for you son!
edokid Posted September 3, 2014 Author Posted September 3, 2014 It's funny but it's very true! I mean for a few of my lamps I put the LED bulb in because I went crazy and bought a bunch then realized it was kind of dumb to since now there's no way to locally control the lamp. I even removed the knob on it so people can't go and try to turn it off or on manually. So now I have to get a Keypadlinc or something easy that someone can just push "LIVING ROOM LAMP" and turn it on!!! Question about the Keypadlinc's, do they let you make custom inserts? Or do you have to use ones that are pre-made? Can't tell if they are paper inserts or if they are custom. There's certain things I'd want to do on them but haven't seen any for.
paulbates Posted September 3, 2014 Posted September 3, 2014 (edited) Several options * print your own and place them under the keys - they make a color key change kit * smarthome sells a kit of i think 50 common imprinted buttons (Garage, Kitchen, etc) * smarthome will custom print 8 buttons for $20. You say what you want (within limits) I did the last one and it really finished the project off. After 4 years I can say that they last Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Edited September 3, 2014 by paulbates
ravedog Posted September 3, 2014 Posted September 3, 2014 You can use paper inserts DIY or order custom etched caps. Look on the kpl listing on the smarthome page. It has all the info there for the different options. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Ooo Paul beat me to it. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
edokid Posted September 3, 2014 Author Posted September 3, 2014 Great thanks! I'll check the custom inserts option, hopefully they ship to Canada
stusviews Posted September 3, 2014 Posted September 3, 2014 (edited) Some button tips: If you print your own labels, then you'll need the clear buttons. Small buttons have a 7 character limit per line, but two lines are available. All standard keyboard characters can be etched, for example, ON/OFF. There are no restrictions although I don't know if français is available. The labels look best and are easiest to read in ALL CAPS. If some buttons on the same KPL have two lines, then I prefer that they all do. Mixing preprinted and custom etched buttons is acceptable to all but the most discerning eye. Maybe. And, yes, they do ship to Canada Edited September 3, 2014 by stusviews
edokid Posted September 3, 2014 Author Posted September 3, 2014 Awesome thanks for the tips that's good to know! Yeah was just thinking when you said 2 lines, that all pretty much have to be.
Teken Posted September 3, 2014 Posted September 3, 2014 Also to note the custom keys are a different colour than the OEM keys. The custom keys are grey in colour and the OEM are a shade of green. The white chichlet is also a different hue of white. Custom keys are definitely the most professional way to go for long term use. Expect from the time of ordering to your door about 3.5 weeks. Encrypted By: Phoenix Security Solutions
edokid Posted September 3, 2014 Author Posted September 3, 2014 Great thanks so much! It will probably be a bit before I need to get a Keypadlinc but I can see it being handy. Was going to just mount an android tablet or something on the wall but I think for family and visitors, having a keypad on the wall that clearly says like "LAMP ON", or "ALL LIGHTS OFF" type thing is easier than knowing to go to the tablet on the wall and use an app.
blueman2 Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 (edited) I went a different route for button labels and I am VERY happy with them. I just take off the existing buttons, sand off the existing labels with 1500 grit sand paper until they are blank white. The printing on the buttons is very shallow so it takes just seconds to remove the old label. I then print whatever label I want onto Avery clear address labels. I also print a box just a smidgen larger than the key to help me place the label on squarely and evenly. I place the labels on the keys, and then cover with another blank clear label in order to provide protection for the ink. I then use a pair of scissors to trim the excess label so that it is flush with the side of the key. The result is much more pleasing than the clear buttons. The clear buttons with inserts behind them just look tacky. Very low WAF. The custom labeled standard keys transmit the backlight much better and look for finished and professional. And this is MUCH cheaper and more flexible than buying the custom keys. The nice thing is that I can also use icons and graphics. For example, I use a fan icon I found on the internet for my fans. I also use Left Arrow for left side house lights, etc. You can be very creative. I have used this for 2 years now and never had any issues with the labels coming off or deteriorating. Edited September 4, 2014 by blueman2
ravedog Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 Oooooo pretty! Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Teken Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 Oooooo pretty! Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Trying to show the OP the color difference between the two items. The crappy picture makes it hard to tell but I assure you its different but to the average person is more than fine.
edokid Posted September 4, 2014 Author Posted September 4, 2014 Thanks everyone. That's a great idea blueman, definitely makes sense to at least try it that way. Could even buy the 20 pack or whatever it is of popular labels to practice on lol.
edokid Posted September 4, 2014 Author Posted September 4, 2014 Thanks Teken for the pics, sorry my last post wouldn't send then finally did and saw you wrote more. I can see the difference in the pictures for sure. I think they definitely have to look the same otherwise it's tacky.
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