aight let's skip the somfy/zwave thing and go insteon to sdn

[sloop]

uh oh - the z/wave guys are getting their long knives out...

 

i want the isy to calculate and plot asymptotes then use a laser to display the graph on passing clouds.

 

KIDDING!

 

the ONLY thing i want is for the isy to talk somfy's sdn (somfy digital network).  the hardwired (my preference) is rs 485 based.  and somfy ALREADY has a box that attaches to a router AND somfy's network.  see.  cake walk.  silk purse outta a sow'z earz.  a walk in the park saving 9 stitches.

 

its their 'ip interface'.  has a web server built in.

 

https://www.somfypro.com/documents/531668/7162581/SDN-IP-Interface-specs-p11.pdf

 

90% of the battle so you can see i am saving you a TON of work.....sigh

 

info about somfy's digital network and some of the components:

 

http://www.automatedshadeinc.com/files/sdn/sdn_1.4_low.pdf

 

with integration of this device, the z/wave work is done for you.  just add the zurt see thingy.  or somfy's rts (wireless communication).

 

its not like there are a ton of commands and they are simplistic. 

 

aight michel.  have i told you that you are a wonderful person and extremely talented.  an asset to the human race.  (is it working?  if not, i'll move on to guilt.)

 

no rush.  i have to run the power and data bus wires.  any time between now and week after next will be fine.

 

slooplinc the idea kinda guy (with ideas that create a steaming pile of work for others)

 

[sloop]

sv went isy to router to autelis to somfy's rts radio device.  bringing the discussion here from another thread:

 

"I'm using an Autelis Somfy RTS controller to open, close and tilt verticals that use a Somfy Universal Receiver RTS, Part No.: 1810627 to control a non-Somfy motor that includes open, close, tilt, and stop, but no presets. Sending TCP commands, I can have any number of presets including having the slats convex side in, concave side in or even half-way (e.g. perpendicular to the wall).

 

"I use a 4-button Mini Remote to open, close, tilt, stop and adjust to any of four presets including which way I want the slats to face.

 

"In addition to the Autelis controller, a network module and Somfy Universal RTS Interface II, Part Number: 1810872 is required."

[sloop]

so sv - do you have to assign an ip address in the autelis box so the isy can find it?  or is that network module smart enough to find it?

[Xathros]

Sloop-

 

You would need to configure a static address in the Autellis box or define an IP reservation for it in your router so the network rules can be pointed at a stationary target.

 

-Xathros

[sloop]

thanks - so if the somfy box will not allow me to assign the address, i can do it in my router?

 

one hurdle down, if so

 

(oh - i was looking at the somfy ip interface box using rs 48whatever data bus)

[bernieb]

I will most likely start another post just so that it has traction, but I would vote to integrate RFXCOM.  In other Home Automation packages, this RFXCOM is used to control Somfy motors and a variety of other wireless devices.  There is a LAN tranceiver model that would work well for ISY users.

[sloop]

sloopz threadz welcome any and all diversions

 

i saw a lot of discussion about those devices with homeseer - seems there are a few of them, widely used in europe - the firmware lists the devices they support

 

if we can send commands (tcp - http - whatever) from the isy to the somfy interface, we could control from the isy - and give michel a few weeks to get us in a smooth, sexy interface with the isy.  one box.  that is for hardwired.  but once you have communication from the isy to somfy's sdn network, you could add those zurt see thingys or somfy's rts wireless box

 

lemme find a price for those somfy ip interface boxez...

[sloop]

oops - looks like its over 900 bucks...

 

i'd do it if i knew it would work and involve fewer boxes and conversions

[Michel Kohanim]

sloop,

 

Thanks for the compliments ) If you have the IP commands (90% of the battle), then all you need is an ISY Network Module ($49.00) and then you can have ISY talk to your somfy over IP:

http://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY-99i_Series_INSTEON:Networking

http://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY-99i_Series_INSTEON:Networking:Network_Resources

 

 

Hello bernieb, we tried that once a long time ago but all their devices are USB and ISY does not have a USB port (yet).

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[stusviews]

so sv - do you have to assign an ip address in the autelis box so the isy can find it?  or is that network module smart enough to find it?

The Autelis does not allow assigning an IP address nor a port, but you can reserve the address the devices takes in your router. The network module does not find the device, you must specify the IP address. HTTP commands require including user name and password and use port 80, TCP commands use port 6000 and do not require authorization.

 

An advantage of the TCP commands is that you can include several Somfy channels in the same command. In any case, the network resource created can be used in programs.

 

You can read about the commands here: http://www.autelis.com/wiki/index.php?title=Shade_Control_for_Somfy_RTS

[sloop]

i like the protocol esi uses.  hunter douglas founded esi.  their rf devices propagate messages.  a little concerned about somfy's rts because i have read complaints about the range of rts.  and repeaters (wall warts) are like 170 bucks.  and i can't find anything that says you can use them in a linear fashion.  but like lutron, esi only wants to sell to dealers.  and i don't see a tilt motor in their product line.

 

it concerns me that autelis seems to have disappeared.  it also seems this is not the first time.  be nice to know if they support the entire rts command set.  the link above does not list the tilt functions.  which might be ok if i knew anything i pass from the isy would be sent to the somfy universal urtsithingy through the autelis.  the somfy manual 'operating instructions' lists the tilt commands:

 

D. RS485 OPERATION
1. The Somfy RS485 interface uses the following communications settings: 9600 Baud, 8 Data Bits, 1 Stop Bit, No Parity
2. With RS485, it is possible to connect 16 Universal RTS Interfaces on one network. Each Interface will have its own address. To select the address, set the
rotary switch to the desired number. Letters A through F stand for addresses 10 through 15, 0 for 16.
3. The basic format for communication is as follows: URTSI ADDR MOTOR CHAN DIR <CR>
The URTSI II address should be 2 digits from 01 to 16.
The motor channel should be 2 digits from 01 to 16.
4. The directional commands are: U = Up D = Down S = Stop (Must be Capital letters)
5. For tilting commands, each increment is approximately 1/10th second of motor movement. The tilt commands are below:
Tilt UP 10 increments: 9 Tilt DOWN 10 increments: <shift>9 [equivalent = (]
Tilt UP 9 increments: 8 Tilt DOWN 9 increments: <shift>8 [equivalent = *]
Tilt UP 8 increments: 7 Tilt DOWN 8 increments: <shift>7 [equivalent = &]
Tilt UP 7 increments: 6 Tilt DOWN 7 increments: <shift>6 [equivalent = ^]
Tilt UP 6 increments: 5 Tilt DOWN 6 increments: <shift>5 [equivalent = %]
Tilt UP 5 increments: 4 Tilt DOWN 5 increments: <shift>4 [equivalent = $]
Tilt UP 4 increments: 3 Tilt DOWN 4 increments: <shift>3 [equivalent = #]
Tilt UP 3 increments: 2 Tilt DOWN 3 increments: <shift>2 [equivalent = @]
Tilt UP 2 increments: 1 Tilt DOWN 2 increments: <shift>1 [equivalent = !]
Tilt UP 1 increment: 0 Tilt DOWN 1 increment: <shift>0 [equivalent = )]
6. A command is available to be used as a delay between successive commands. The format for this is Wx. X is a 1/2 second multiplier. Valid commands are W1 -
W9 or 1/2 second to 4.5 second delay.

 

everything autelis (and all automation for window treatments) is geared toward those cylindrical motors.  lift.  shades mostly.  i see FAR more people using 2 inch wood blinds than shades or roman blahblah thingys.  but i suppose the market is not there for the tilt.  i don't even see one on rollertrol. 

 

even somfy only offers one motor.  in two flavors.  ir and rf.  and its geared to battery operation, though you can use a wall wart.  i'd like one that is sdn because i'd use a 12v power distribution panel.  running two more wires with the power wires would be no more work. 

 

on the up side, you can order blinds with the somfy tilt motor already installed cheaper than you can buy the motor and install it in a new blind.  and even have them routless.

 

so

 

autelis - 210

urtsieythingy - 270

isy module - 50

power distribution panel - 125

test blind - 200

wire - eh - not a problem

wing and a prayer - soul sold to satan

 

KIDDING

 

i'd probably need a couple of repeaters but i'd place them in the attic to bake.  so replacing them would be an ongoing expense.  sigh

 

should probably have a gross of rubber bands to hold all this together.  and a dozen rolls of black electrical tape to hide all the flashing led lights.

 

i know i sound like i am trying to talk myself out of this, but i'd really like to install them.  and REALLY want them interfaced to the isy.  that will include control on the SAME cell phone app.  more important, i can use existing keypad buttons to operate them.  though it would be held together with string and bubblegum, the presentation would be a seamless system.  WITHOUT a windows computer needed to operate the house.

 

the isy is bored.  i only have a few simple programs.  and even without the isy, almost all of the house would operate.  i don't do a ton of guessing what someone wants on when they go take a...when they walk into a bathroom.  so i doubt i'd be stressing the isy.  but concerned about limitations that might arise because of my assumptions.  like limits on variables (seems like i read something about that).  i'd need all 16 channels on one utrsieythingy. 

 

and sv - does one group count as one channel?  i have 3 bay windows and could group each of the 3 windows in each bay window.  that would use 3 channels instead of 9.  am i wrong about that?  also

 

"The Autelis Shade Control interfaces to the Somfy RTS Universal II Interface (sold separately, part #1810872) and is compatible with any motors that can be linked to it."

 

but the tilt commands are not listed as supported.  i must have a hole in my logic somewhere on this.

 

i'd prefer not to hack a little lioulneloooohnix thingy.  but not wed to this setup. 

[sloop]

and yes.  i know reading war and peace would take less time than reading the post above.

 

sigh

 

dangit sloop!

[Michel Kohanim]

sloop,

 

Based on what you outlined above, I wouldn't worry about any limitations. 

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[stusviews]

i'd probably need a couple of repeaters but i'd place them in the attic to bake.  so replacing them would be an ongoing expense.

 

Only one Somfy repeater can be used at any location within range of any Somfy transmitter. The reason is that, unlike INSTEON that limits the number of repetitions, the Somfy repeater will repeat every signal it hears.

 

Transmitter sends a signal, it's heard by the first repeater and sent once. The second repeater hears the signal and sends it--to the first repeater which hears the signal ...

 

But, if you're using a hardwired Somfy SDN IP interface, then a repeater is not required nor even available. The Somfy repeater is for RTS (Radio Technology Somfy) only.

[Banichi]

Not sure if this has been addressed in a newer thread but Autelis now has an interface for somfy's SDN. That sounds like a 3rd party replacement for somfy's own IP interface yes? Also I looked on the wiki page for that device and it has a specific section for the ISY/Universal Devices. Michael is this something that you've been working with them on?

 

I'll be working on a new construction project in the coming months and would love to be able to integrate SDN instead of RTS as it's no small house so it would require more coverage than RTS can handle. SDN on the other hand I can preqire for with no issues to a 12v distro panel as sloop described.

[stusviews]

The Autellis device interfaces with the Somfy Digital Network controller allowing you to control the SDN device using commands issued by the ISY using the network module. It's not a replacement for the Smofy interface

 

BTW, SDN requires Cat5 to each motor.

[Jimbo.Automates]

Isn't there a Somfy Z-Wave interface now that would work better with the ISY? It's one of the next things on my projects list to investigate.

[Banichi]

stusviews - So the reason that I am confused on the replacement issues is because of what is in the wiki at Autelis:

 

http://www.autelis.com/wiki/index.php?title=Shade_Control_for_Somfy_SDN#Connection_to_Somfy_SDN

 

It talks about direct connection to the SDN bus. Am I to understand that it needs a direct connection to the SDN bus as well as a connection to the Somfy IP interface? Seems redundant from what I can tell.

Specifically this part:

Installation Notes

The Autelis Shade Control interfaces directly to Somfy ILT3/RS485 motors and to Somfy ILT2 motors through an ILT Tap.

 

And yup, cat5 to each motor is great! Better than semi reliable wireless RTS connections. IMHO.

 

Jimbo - From what I understand, at the moment the Z-wave interface is mostly functional but not quite as reliable as some would like. Also I beleive that there are still a couple of features that aren't quite fully supported in the ISY. Could be wrong though. You can find the thread with a basci search for "somfy" here on the foums.

[stusviews]

The Autelis controller allows the ISY network module to send commands to the SDN. There are other ways to send commands to the SDN, for example, using a browser, but not if you want to integrate with the ISY using programs.

[Banichi]

Right I got that the ISY communicates to the Autelis controller via the ISY's network module. What I'm having trouble seeing is where in the schematic, (of sorts) the Somfy IP interface comes in.

 

From what I can tell it's like this:

 

from ILT Tap SDN 4-wires > Autelis SND controller > Ethernet to Router > ethernet back out to ISY

 

Am I missing where the Somfy IP interface is required? It seems like the Autelis is the RS232 (RS485) translator instead of the Somfy device.

 

Also as of today the Universal Devices section on the Autelis wiki states the following:

 

Install the ISY-enabled firmware to get 2-way control and feedback of your shades in your ISY home automation controller (networking module required).

More coming soon...

 

So not sure that that's refering to the ISY's firmware or the Autelis' firmware. I would be inclined to think that it's refering to the autelis' firmware.

[stusviews]

RTS require the Somfy Universal interface. SDN requires the ILT Tap.

[Banichi]

RTS require the Somfy Universal interface. SDN requires the ILT Tap.

 

Right so the Somfy IP interface in not required if using the Autelis SDN interface is what I'm getting.

[stusviews]

http://www.autelis.com/wiki/index.php?title=Shade_Control_for_Somfy_SDN

[sloop]

my problem is that i want to control blinds - specifically, the tilt of blinds - somfy only makes a rts blind motor, unless they have something new that i have not seen

 

i rarely lift blinds - but open them daily

 

the sdn interface is for shades - i have no shades

 

since i will have to run power lines, a few more for communication is not a problem 

 

be great to have a blind tilt motor with power and communication over ethernet...

[sloop]

so sv - become a rich man and make us a tilt blind motor - somfy will buy it from you once you put one out there

 

what we want

 

power over ethernet

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_over_Ethernet

am i reading this right?  48 volts - watts/milliamp blah blah - i think the blind tilt needs less than 1.9 amps at 12 volts 

 

communications over the same ethernet cable - standard rj45 

 

isy to switch with poe - switch to tilt motors

 

we'll guilt michel into the isy module

 

this should be doable - get mz sv a new infiniti

 

someone will source the parts for a prototype - find you someone to manufacture the controller board - case - 48 volt dc motor - michel can talk approvals from ul and such

 

piece of cake