raymondh Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 I have a 2-wire dimmer that is flaky while all the dual band switches around it are perfect. The 2-wire switch is in a box shared by a regular outlet on the side of a cabinet in the kitchen. The box does not have a neutral wire. I plugged a dual band on/off module in to the outlet shared by the switchlinc thinking it would help the communication but I don't really notice any difference. That got me thinking about neutral wires and these plug in modules. If the outlet they are plugged into doesn't have the neutral wire connected to the outlet (like all of them in my house), how can they be dual band? Aren't they just RF devices at that point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 The neutral is to power the device. Where as your device takes power from the load. The power line signal is sent on the load wire and RF is sent via the internal antenna. Encrypted By: Phoenix Security Solutions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymondh Posted November 9, 2014 Author Share Posted November 9, 2014 The neutral is to power the device. Where as your device takes power from the load. The power line signal is sent on the load wire and RF is sent via the internal antenna. Encrypted By: Phoenix Security Solutions Okay, so the way I have it set up with the plugin module almost touching the 2-wire switchlinc pretty much makes it a dual band switchlinc then, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Okay, so the way I have it set up with the plugin module almost touching the 2-wire switchlinc pretty much makes it a dual band switchlinc then, right? I don't follow what you're asking me? Are you saying you have a single band switch linc which is installed next to a dual band (2 wire) dimmer? If the above is true, no you do not have dual band. Dual band is a physical component layout and design that send the Insteon signal at the same over the network. There isn't anything you can do to (add) RF to a power line only device. In the big picture dual band devices are helpful but they certainly don't solve all the problems people see in their own environment. Whether it be noise, physical structure obstructions, or distance. What exactly is the problem you're having and what is the load you're trying to control on this 2 wire dimmer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymondh Posted November 9, 2014 Author Share Posted November 9, 2014 I have a 2-wire switchlinc dimmer installed in a box shared with a outlet. The box does not have a neutral wire. The 2-wire switchlinc has occasional communications issues. I want to plug the on/off module into the outlet that shares the box with the switchlinc. My thinking is that the on/of module will have no problem receiving the RF signal from the 2-wire switchlinc and will repeat the signal over the power line. Thus, reliable communication to the RF only 2-wire Switchlinc will be obtainable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 I have a 2-wire switchlinc dimmer installed in a box shared with a outlet. The box does not have a neutral wire. The 2-wire switchlinc has occasional communications issues. I want to plug the on/off module into the outlet that shares the box with the switchlinc. My thinking is that the on/of module will have no problem receiving the RF signal from the 2-wire switchlinc and will repeat the signal over the power line. Thus, reliable communication to the RF only 2-wire Switchlinc will be obtainable. If the 2 wire device is installed into a standard metal JBOX then it's more than likely the RF portion has been reduced. This is one of the weaknesses of the current design of the Insteon devices. Besides the fact they insist upon placing the antenna on the rear of the device instead of the front. Yes, installing the dual band On / Off relay module will definitely help you to bolster the RF portion of the signal in your network. Keep in mind that all Insteon devices repeat and regenerate the signal as its transmitted. Remember it doesn't matter how many devices you have if you haven't confirmed proper coupling / bridging via the 4 tap beacon test outlined in the users manual. Or have persistent noise makers / signal suckers on the same power line. NOTE: Your 2 wire switch Linc dimmer is dual band so the signal is sent over both power line & RF at the same time. If the RF portion is hindered that same signal will be transmitted over power line. This doesn't address noise related issues. Encrypted By: Phoenix Security Solutions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 If by outlet, you mean something like a duplex receptacle, then there must be a neutral in that box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymondh Posted November 9, 2014 Author Share Posted November 9, 2014 If by outlet, you mean something like a duplex receptacle, then there must be a neutral in that box. It's similar to this. http://img.ehowcdn.com/615x200/ds-photo/getty/article/74/247/87517010_XS.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisC Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 It's similar to this. http://img.ehowcdn.com/615x200/ds-photo/getty/article/74/247/87517010_XS.jpg There should be at least 2 wires and possibly a ground connected to the outlet. One of them must be a neutral for the outlet to work. Use a test lamp to determine the hot wire to ground and the other wire should be the neutral. You will also light the lamp by going across the hot wire and neutral. Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 The outlet has brass screws on one side. That's the line. Most likely there will be a connection with that wire and the switch. The other side of the outlet has silver screws, that's the neutral and there should be at least one white wire connected. In any case, you should test the wiring. A meter is best. Even the lowest cost meter is adequate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryllix Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I have a 2-wire switchlinc dimmer installed in a box shared with a outlet. The box does not have a neutral wire. The neutral doesn't matter with the device he has. There is no connection for it. This may be a bad application for this SwitchLinc. The neutral may be on another leg or branch circuit and possibly should not be used. For the purpose of the sensing circuit from a SwitchLinc, I personally would try it if a 3-wire SwitchLinc was in question. The Electrician may or may not have followed code for the area. Some Inspectors do not consider neutrals from another leg or branch circuit as two circuits / feeds. Some Inspectors and codes areas may consider this as a violation of code and would not allow it. OTOH, Most Inspectors would never identify it to comment. Interesting that a SwitchLinc with a two wire connection would even support RF communications as it takes a ground or dipole configuration to make an antenna work and the load may present a high impedance to the 915 MHz Insteon transmission. Further, if the two wire wiring to the SwitchLinc is a single 14/2 from the octagon box at the lamp fixture, the two conductors in close proximity, inside the cable, will NOT usually produce a good dipole antenna for getting an RF signal out. What is model of 2-wire SwitchLinc you having trouble with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 If it is the 2474D Two Wire Dimmer. It is strictly an RF device and has no power line signaling. So it is not Dual Band. As it is RF only with no power line signaling. It also has to be used with a incandescent load. Anything else maybe a problem. It's antenna is in the back of the switch as pointed out. So metal boxes can effect its RF range. If there is a power line signal problem to the outlet next to the 2474D. The module plugged into it may not be sending an RF signal to activate it. http://www.smarthome.com/switchlinc-2-wire-dimmer-insteon-2474dwh-remote-control-dimmer-rf-white.html raymondh, Your load is the proper type? Incandescent or the halogen replacements for the banned incandescent bulbs? Anything else in your home that maybe using the RF frequency of 915MHz.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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