62vetteefp Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 I have three 2441th tstats. One works with ISY all the time. Other two are sporadic. I did notice a difference in the console looks. The working all the time one does not show the heat/cool state while the sporadic ones do. Any idea why these are different? I also notice that when I change a setting they respond differently (whether by console or on tstat or with iRule). Working one changes instantly. Sporadic ones put out a busy bar and when they do not work give errors. Platform errors 10108. Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Kohanim Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Hi 62vetteefp, Do they all have the same firmware version? It seems that there are communication issues and most probably related to RF communications between the PLM and the thermostats. With kind regards, Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62vetteefp Posted December 22, 2014 Author Share Posted December 22, 2014 The "bad" ones are .0f and .0d "Good" one is .0d So looks to not be firmware? Are those the firmware versions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62vetteefp Posted December 22, 2014 Author Share Posted December 22, 2014 How do you update firmware on these? I can find directions nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 You can't update the firmware in any Insteon Module. Except maybe the HUB II as I have seen messages Smartlabs can remotely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Insteon devices are not field updatable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62vetteefp Posted December 22, 2014 Author Share Posted December 22, 2014 As a followup I did measure the voltage to the unit form the furnace. 26.7 volts ac on both bad "tstat"'s since they come from the same furnace. 27.5 volts on the "good' tstat which comes from a different furnace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 That voltage difference is inconsequential. Where are the two problem thermostats located relative to the nearest dual-band device(s)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62vetteefp Posted December 22, 2014 Author Share Posted December 22, 2014 One is 3' from a dimmer switch on the same wall with another dimmer switch15' behind it. The other is on the 2nd floor with a dimmer switch on the first floor right below it so about 9' apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Do you have a dual-band plug-in device that you can temporarily plug in near the 2nd floor thermostat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Kohanim Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Hi 62vetteefp, My recommendation is to swap the thermostats. i.e. take the faceplate out of them and swap them. If the problem moves with the thermostat, then the problem is the thermostat itself. If the problem stays with the location then the problem is signal related and you probably need more access points or dual band devices in/around that location. With kind regards, Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62vetteefp Posted December 23, 2014 Author Share Posted December 23, 2014 Stu, I do. I will grab one off my hot water heater and try that. I will then swap the tsats as Michel suggested if that does not work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62vetteefp Posted December 26, 2014 Author Share Posted December 26, 2014 Stu, I moved the 2635 near the kitchen tstat (which has other dual band devices close to it) and it did not improve it. This is the older "d" firmware. I then moved it upstairs within 6' of the other tstat and that one is now working. I do see that it also now has no comment next to the heat/cool state like the one that always worked! So it looks like the upstairs tstat was a communication issue. I will continue to monitor it. I will switch the nonworking one with the original working one (also a "d" firmware) and see if the issue swaps location. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62vetteefp Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 I finally swapped the tstats. The old "master" tstat is now in the kitchen and the old "kitchen" tstat is in the master bedroom. The communication error stayed in the room. The tstat now in the kitchen has the same System busy/cannot communicate error/platform errors 10108 as the kitchen area always had. Bedroom tstat now communicates instantly as the bedroom area always did. To be clear the issues swapped between the tstats. Also I do not always get the errors. Sometimes I just get a long "systems busy" box while it changes and it makes the change. I then swapped the 2635 on/off modules from the upstairs bedroom (where it communicated with the upstairs tstat and fixed that issue) with the one in the kitchen next to the kitchen tstat. It did not help. I then moved the 2635 to the other side of the wall of the tstat 3' below it. It did not help. So on the wall 3' from the tstat is a dimmer switch and on the other side of the wall to the tstat is the 2635 module so there should be plenty of RF signal? What next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I finally swapped the tstats. The old "master" tstat is now in the kitchen and the old "kitchen" tstat is in the master bedroom. The communication error stayed in the room. The tstat now in the kitchen has the same System busy/cannot communicate error/platform errors 10108 as the kitchen area always had. Bedroom tstat now communicates instantly as the bedroom area always did. To be clear the issues swapped between the tstats. Also I do not always get the errors. Sometimes I just get a long "systems busy" box while it changes and it makes the change. I then swapped the 2635 on/off modules from the upstairs bedroom (where it communicated with the upstairs tstat and fixed that issue) with the one in the kitchen next to the kitchen tstat. It did not help. I then moved the 2635 to the other side of the wall of the tstat 3' below it. It did not help. So on the wall 3' from the tstat is a dimmer switch and on the other side of the wall to the tstat is the 2635 module so there should be plenty of RF signal? What next? This comes down to one of two things: Improper coupling / bridging of the Insteon network to ensure the single split phase electrical system is able to communicate. Or, noise makers, signal suckers in the home that is impacting the signal to get to the devices. I would follow the beacon (4 tap) test outlined in the full users manual for the dual band devices you have on hand. Another option is to hard reset the device and see if it makes a difference in case the box is hung up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62vetteefp Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 thanks teken. The tstat came from a different room where it worked fine and the one that was in this room, and did not work right, is now working fine in the new location so the tstat box should be fine. I did the test. I see red leds blinking at different places in my house. The closest blinking red led is 18' from the tstat. The dimmer and on/off module next to the tsat are not blinking. And to confuse things more I have two service panels supplying my house that are right next to each other due to a large woodworking shop. What do I do now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 thanks teken. The tstat came from a different room where it worked fine and the one that was in this room, and did not work right, is now working fine in the new location so the tstat box should be fine. I did the test. I see red leds blinking at different places in my house. The closest blinking red led is 18' from the tstat. The dimmer and on/off module next to the tsat are not blinking. And to confuse things more I have two service panels supplying my house that are right next to each other due to a large woodworking shop. What do I do now? That would indicate improper coupling of the electrical system. Move one of the on / off plugin relays around the house until it blinks green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62vetteefp Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 I only found one outlet where the plugin would blink green and it is right over the PLM. TSTAT still does not work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I only found one outlet where the plugin would blink green and it is right over the PLM. TSTAT still does not work. That is unfortunate to say the least. Its a little uncommon to see a home not evenly split for the two sides of the electrical system. You indicate two electrical panels are there outlets down there perhaps plug the on / off in that area and report back success / failures. NOTE: Regardless of what you read in the literature about XXX feet of RF. This assumes a perfect world and environment void of any RFI, EMI, obstructions etc. Keep in mind we have not addressed possible line noise whether it be signal suckers or noise makers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Kohanim Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Hi 62vetteefp, Any baby monitors or things in 800 Mhz range? With kind regards, Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62vetteefp Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 Hi 62vetteefp, Any baby monitors or things in 800 Mhz range? With kind regards, Michel Not that I can think of. there is a 900 Mhz cordless phone near it but I unplugged it and it still has issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62vetteefp Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 So I did the 4 tap test. Plugged in an on/off module into an outlet right next to the utility room (PLM is in room). Turned it on (up arrow) and it goes green red red and repeats. Does this mean the outlet is on the same phase as the PLM? Plugged it into an outlet across the room and stays steady green. My thought was to run an extension cord into the utility room from this green outlet and plug the PLM into it and see if having the PLM on the other leg, which has devices next to the tstat, would allow it to work. HOWEVER when I plug the cord into the green outlet, and BEFORE I walked over to the PLM to plug it in, it started to go green red red. What am I missing here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Whed doing the 4-tap test, at least two devices are involved. One device initiates the test. That device blinks and, on newer devices also beeps. The results are observed on the second device, not the first. If the second device is on the opposite leg of the split, single-phase electric supply , then it will blink green (or, on some devices, be solid white). If the second device blinks red, then it is not on the opposite leg. If it does not blink at all, then there is no RF communication between the devices. That does not mean that the devices are not communicating via the powerline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xathros Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Try plugging in a dual band device across the room from the problem tstat. The stats seem to like to communicate with devices that they face rather than to the sides. -Xathros Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62vetteefp Posted January 12, 2015 Author Share Posted January 12, 2015 OK I am stumped(still). I took the tstat off the wall and used a 30' piece of furnace wire to move the tstat 30' from the current location. I can query on ISY and make changes and it always works. I then hung the tstat right on the wires by the current location and it still works all the time!!! I will continue to monitor with the tstat on the extension wire next to the original location and see what happens. Well, in reading Xathros comment perhaps it is the orientation of the tstat on the wall. It was hanging there, facing down, and working fine. I reattached to the wall, with one screw, with the extension wire, in about the same original position and it works. Perhaps I should just shove all the wire into the hole and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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