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Z-Wave network doesn't poll automatically


416to305

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Hi everyone,

 

I have a few Linear Z-Wave switches which I know don't do instant status like most Z-Wave.  When I used the Vera, it would poll the devices every 60 seconds, starting with device 1, then 2, then 3, etc, so in general it would be polled every 60-90 seconds.  So if I turned a switch off on the wall, the Vera wouldn't know for up to a minute and a half, depending on when the poll happens.

 

With the ISY though they never update unless I manually query them.  I tried doing a Z-Wave Heal, which it said just completed but a light I turned off now 8 minutes ago still shows 100% in the ISY.  

 

Just wanted to see if that's normal.  To me it seems the solution would be simple, just write a program that queries the light every 60 seconds or whatever, but I figured that would waste ISY resources?  The only place I can see it being a problem is in the kitchen my dining room light right now is a Z-Wave one, so I wanted to have motion lights come on only if all other lights are off.  Problem is if I turn the dining room off at the switch, the ISY never knows it's off, so motion never works.  So 2 questions,

 

1) Is it normal that the ISY never polls my Z-Wave devices?

2) If it is normal, what is the minimum interval I should have a program running on repeat to query them?

 

Z-Wave Version: 4.55

Bootloader Version: 1.03

Firmware: 4.2.21

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Just a guess here. If you show all the switch details in the Event Viewer by right clicking on the switch/Z-Wave/Information do you see an ASSOCIATE attribute? If you do and the switch is in direct contact with the ISY then you should see instant update in the ISY when the switch is toggled manually. If there's no ASSOCIATE attribute or it relies on neighbors to receive/send a signal (why is this?) then yes, you'd need to poll the switch. All my JASCO switches have the ASSOCIATE attribute and are in range of the ISY directly so my ISY is updated instantly when a switch is toggled. For the one switch that was not in range I substituted a Leviton switch which supports "Instant Status" though I don't call a 5 sec delay quite so "Instant".

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It says it does not support associations, which if that means instant status then I knew that already that it didn't.  The Vera by default polls every 60 seconds though, so I just assumed the ISY would automatically do the same.  I can easily make a program that queries the Z-Wave devices, I just wasn't sure if that wasted resources having that run non stop every minute or so.  I'd probably set it more like every 10 or 15 though as I don't need it to be THAT instant, and even if I have a program like "If motion is detected and the light is off, turn on the light" type thing, that would really only be an issue if I was in the kitchen, manually turned the light off, left, then came back within 10-15 minutes or so it wouldn't turn the light on.  So I think I can live with that.

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I don't think there's much of a difference if the ISY were to poll every 60 seconds automatically or if you wrote a program to do it.

 

There is a difference between associations and "Instant Status". "Instant Status" is a feature patented by Lutron and devices which use it pay a license fee, which is why those device are generally more expensive.

 

Associations are where the ISY registers with the devices for updates. This is the same as how the ISY works for Insteon also, it basically adds itself into a scene (internally for each device) so that it is notified of any commands that are sent to the device.

 

Associations require direct contact between devices. I've attached a document about Z-Wave with a bit of a description of associations towards the end.

Z-Wave Technical Basics-small.pdf

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Hi 416to305,

 

andyF0 is correct: querying by ISY or through programs uses the same resources. This said we opted for manual query because it gives you more control over what devices and how fast do you want to query.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

Totally agree. Much rather have control over any polling I'd want to do vs the ISY doing it automatically. If the ISY did it we'd all be screaming for a system setting to control period and by which device. :)

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Yeah that's great no complaints here. I just wasn't sure if me creating a program to query them every couple minutes would waste resources or something. So far it's working great though thanks!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi fastbird1,

 

Please use the factory QueryAll program as an example. If you're still having problems please don't hesitate to connect our support.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

Thanks Michel, is there anywhere that you could point me that explains how to use the QueryAll program?  I simply want to know when the light switch has been turned on.  Do I query all devices every minute?  Thanks

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Hey fastbird that's how I do it and I believe that's correct. I have a program that just queries but devices every two minutes. I set it as two as there's really only one switch in my house that I need the status updated on quicker which is my dining room light as I want the keypad in the kitchen to update. The others I probably could have a longer but I haven't noticed any performance issues at all having it poll every 2 mins.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Hey fastbird that's how I do it and I believe that's correct. I have a program that just queries but devices every two minutes. I set it as two as there's really only one switch in my house that I need the status updated on quicker which is my dining room light as I want the keypad in the kitchen to update. The others I probably could have a longer but I haven't noticed any performance issues at all having it poll every 2 mins.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks, I just dont quite understand how to query the one device - I have like 7 motion sensors and several other devices that I dont need to query. I just need a bit of sample code i could run with. The insteon technology seems superior in this regard.
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Oh it's very easy, see below.  Insteon is great in terms of how the status is real time, which is due to the PLM being what routes all traffic so the ISY can monitor that and always know a devices state.  The Vera just automatically polls every minute, but the program we are making below is the same thing Vera does, it's just not doing it by default in the ISY.  Here's how mine works, there's 2 programs.

 

Program 1 - Set to run at startup

Z-Wave Network Poll 2 - [iD 0058][Parent 0001][Run At Startup]

 

If

        From    12:00:00AM

        To      11:59:00PM (same day)

 

Then

        Repeat Every  2 minutes

           ISY994ZW ACTION - ZWAVE ID000 QUERY NETWORK

 

Else

   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

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That's a good question there's absolutely no reason lol. I think I was having trouble when I first did it with the repeat so had tested as two then when I figured it out I didn't bother making it one. Thanks!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi everyone,

 

Had a similar question here as I've set the ISY to query Z-Wave manually as well, but do I need to include motion sensors, thermostats or door locks?  My motion sensor never changes from 71 degrees it seems.  Since it's battery powered I can't query it I don't think, but it's supposed to check in every 30 minutes in the user guide or you can flip the tamper switch to force it to check in.  It's possible that the temperature just hasn't changed in the room, but more so wondering for the thermostat or door lock.  Do I need to include them in the query all program to know the current temperature for the actual thermostat?  The door lock I feel probably doesn't need to be, since any interaction with it will send to the ISY right away such as manually unlocking it.  Thanks!

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Oh sorry to clarify I'm not really sure if it's not reporting anything, it's possible it has just been 71 in the room consistently.  I haven't really looked or tested it much, just wanted to make sure I didn't need to include these devices in the query.

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  • 1 year later...

Oh it's very easy, see below.  Insteon is great in terms of how the status is real time, which is due to the PLM being what routes all traffic so the ISY can monitor that and always know a devices state.  The Vera just automatically polls every minute, but the program we are making below is the same thing Vera does, it's just not doing it by default in the ISY.  Here's how mine works, there's 2 programs.

 

Program 1 - Set to run at startup

Z-Wave Network Poll 2 - [iD 0058][Parent 0001][Run At Startup]

 

If

        From    12:00:00AM

        To      11:59:00PM (same day)

 

Then

        Repeat Every  2 minutes

           ISY994ZW ACTION - ZWAVE ID000 QUERY NETWORK

 

Else

   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

I don't find where to choose  "  ISY994ZW ACTION - ZWAVE ID000 QUERY NETWORK "

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  • 1 month later...

Keep in mind that for battery based devices, querying them all the time can shorten their battery life - sometimes dramatically. 

 

I had a bunch of Kwikset locks that were giving me about 6-7 weeks of battery instead of 6+ months.  Couldn't figure out why until I realized that my controller (a Vera, at the time) was querying them every 5 minutes.  The locks had instant status reporting and didn't need to be queried at all and once I disabled it for them, the battery life improved to be about 8-10 months.

 

I'm lucky in that all my battery powered (Kwikset locks, Ecolink door/window sensors and Everspring temp/humidity sensors) send reports when things change, so I don't have to query anything.  

 

Gerry

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  • 2 weeks later...

A few months ago I added a Cooper switch that supposedly includes status reporting. That light switch is in a program  IF light 1 ON, THEN light 2 and light 2 ON. That requires that the ISY knows the status of light 1. The Cooper switch status reporting worked on and off, and a few days ago I replaced it with a GE switch.  The GE switch has much better response.

I also added a Query Program that queries some of my switches and devices every 5 seconds. That also compensates pretty much any lack of status reporting.

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I also added a Query Program that queries some of my switches and devices every 5 seconds. That also compensates pretty much any lack of status reporting.

 

That also keeps the ISY busy. I don't know haw much that affects performance if a command is sent concurrently with a query (i.e., response times).

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That also keeps the ISY busy. I don't know haw much that affects performance if a command is sent concurrently with a query (i.e., response times).

So far no problem, but I'd love to hear from Michel or Chris whether  (almost) constant querying could affect performance.

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So far no problem, but I'd love to hear from Michel or Chris whether  (almost) constant querying could affect performance.

 

Hi Asbril,

 

I don't know if there are any long term effects on the Z-Wave devices themselves by constantly querying them.  From a usability standpoint, other Z-Wave activities could be delayed (such as a program turning on a lamp) if the query is running at that time, and especially if the query takes a long time due to communication errors.

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