tom.karez@gmail.com Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 I have an exisitng Z-Wave network with a SmartThings controller. I can not get any devices moved from that controller to the ISY, does anyone have any information on how to accomplish this? I use mostly Linear dimmers and a few other devices. Thanks Tom
Teken Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 I have an exisitng Z-Wave network with a SmartThings controller. I can not get any devices moved from that controller to the ISY, does anyone have any information on how to accomplish this? I use mostly Linear dimmers and a few other devices. Thanks Tom Hello Tom, The first thing is do you have a Z-Wave enabled ISY-994 Series Controller? If no you need to purchase or upgrade your existing unit to support the hardware. If you do have a the required hardware I have to assume you need to remove and add these devices back in for the ISY to see them.
Mike Ippolito Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 Tom, Welcome to Universal Devices! We hope your experience with our ISY994 series controllers exceeds your expectations. Please see this wiki post to transfer your devices over from smarthings. If you'd like a *super special bonus*, please register on our wiki and document your conversion from smart things. Our users have created a great community here and we welcome you to join in! *PM me and I'll set you up with a discounted add-on module for your effort. As always post on our forum or submit a support ticket for personalized support.
tom.karez@gmail.com Posted January 10, 2015 Author Posted January 10, 2015 I tried all this, yes it is the z wave version. I can exclude the devices with smartthings, and Re add them. I simply can't add them to the isy. Though it might be a range issue so I repositioned to move the isy closer no luck. I reset the zwave module, no luck there either. At this point I have to assume the isy may be defective.
tom.karez@gmail.com Posted January 10, 2015 Author Posted January 10, 2015 Well after resetting the ISY ZWave module again and excluding the devices again I am now able to add devices. Flaky but I think that is device and not controller issue as they were a bit flaky with smart things. Now I have an issue where if I create a scene and then I click on the link for the scene I get an authorization failed error, it does not appear prevent it from working but is an annoyance, this occurs on the a WIN 7 and WIn 8 box. Also if you create a scene, do not add devices and delete it you get an error. Once you add a device you can delete the scene.
Michel Kohanim Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 Hi Tom, If you have ISY994iZW then you cannot create scenes unless you have a PLM. If you are not planning to use INSTEON at all with ISY, please do send an email to support and we'll send you a link to firmware for ISY994 ZW which does not have support for INSTEON and does not require PLM for scenes. With kind regards, Michel
tom.karez@gmail.com Posted January 11, 2015 Author Posted January 11, 2015 Well that does explain it. So my take at least for now that Z-Wave support is somewhat limited then, is there something outlining the limitations? After doing a factory reset, formatting the SD card and refreshing the firmware on the z-wave dongle it sort of works now. There really does seem to be a range issues with the controller as far as z-wave goes. I need to be right next to it for some things to work. Not trying to stir things up but Smartthings clearly had greater range. I have had to resort to using the AEON Minimote to exclude and include things by switching the primary controller to it and then back. This has been hit and miss at best and I still can't seem to get a Leviton low voltage dimmer to work, this is a high dollar ULV dimmer for LED under counter lights and is what started this whole z wave project. I had hoped for equal to hardware functionality and greater programability than smartthings. I do intend to add some Insteon devices but had hoped to use all my existing Z-Wave hardware. Here are what I see as my current issues. 1. Short Range 2. MiniMote is not supported as a button controller, makes the device useless with the exception of being a controller. 3. Smart Things motion controllers do not seem to work, can't be paried. 4. Scenes do not work, will they work if I add a PLM or is that limited to Insteon only, sorry not really familiar with the ISY or Insteon. 5. There is no feedback mechanism in z-wave, correct? So a switch toggle cannot create cascanding events as the status is not know until re-qeuried, correct? I have a few more device types to test and will do so as time and family permit. Tom
tibbar Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 This board sucks- again i did not noticed I was not signed in, try to post and loose everything I typed. Again. Zwave functionality is somewhat limited. I'm using Leviton VRE06-1LZ Vizia RF + 600W Electronic Low Voltage dimmers ($160.00 each) with my soffit pot lights- they work OK. I wish ISY was more like VERA3 with wifi and portable battery pack so you could move it closer to a device you try to include-exclude.
Michel Kohanim Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 Hi Tom, If am not sure why you had to factory reset and/or format the SD card. 1. Scenes will work as soon as you have the PLM plugged in. If you don't want to use a plm please do let us know and we'll send you a link for a Z-Wave only firmware. This will not require factory reset and or formatting the SD card. All you have to do is install the new firmware 3. Multi channel support should be there in our 5x release to be out shortly. This addresses minimote 4. Change of state events depend on the Z-Wave device. For instance you get change of state from door locks sensors and some switches 5. Range: have you tried a network heal? Also you might want to try and attach you isy to the wall this way the signal propagate horizontally rather than upwards 6. Motion Sensor: does it fail to include and if so what's the error? 7. Leviton: if it's a multi button device it should be supported at the same time as minimote With kind regards, Michel
Nestor Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 Hi Tom, If am not sure why you had to factory reset and/or format the SD card. 1. Scenes will work as soon as you have the PLM plugged in. If you don't want to use a plm please do let us know and we'll send you a link for a Z-Wave only firmware. This will not require factory reset and or formatting the SD card. All you have to do is install the new firmware 3. Multi channel support should be there in our 5x release to be out shortly. This addresses minimote 4. Change of state events depend on the Z-Wave device. For instance you get change of state from door locks sensors and some switches 5. Range: have you tried a network heal? Also you might want to try and attach you isy to the wall this way the signal propagate horizontally rather than upwards 6. Motion Sensor: does it fail to include and if so what's the error? 7. Leviton: if it's a multi button device it should be supported at the same time as minimote With kind regards, Michel Hi, just to be clear, as long as the ISY sees a PLM, scenes can be created using only Zwave devices, correct? There is no need for any Insteon device to be part of the network?
416to305 Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 Wait, have you excluded them on the ISY though? You should still exclude it on the ISY, just forget the SmartThings all together that would have nothing to do with this. Exclude on ISY and then try to add it and see if that works. Something sounds wrong though regarding the range. Are you using the external antenna? I ask because z-wave for me has far superior range to Inseon, even with the Vera's built in antenna. I have Vera in the living room, and 3 floors up can add and control switches NO problem. Yet now that I've moved things around, I have Insteon wired devices on the 2nd floor, with an Insteon LED bulb on the third floor now, and I can't control that LED unless I put a OutletLinc or other Insteon dual band device closer to it, yet Z-Wave works over 3 floors with no other devices in between. Moving the Vera on battery to within 3 feet is more for security. Even when I added my secure Schlage door lock to the ISY, I did it from both permanent locations, the ISY probably 40 feet away from the lock, and it added instantly. For the motion sensors, do they have a tamper switch on the back? My Philio ones do, so they only download updates (at least from Vera as I don't really use it much on the ISY but it does work) every 30 minutes or so, maybe an hour I forget what it is. But flipping the tamper switch on the back triggers it to connect immediately. So usually it will add, but if you change a setting etc, it doesn't update it for awhile. Z-Wave devices do have feedback but it depends on the device, only the more expensive ones do. So if you want to turn a light switch on and have others come on with it, you'd need one with instant status. However if you use the controller to start it, like motion triggering a light etc, then the ISY knows about it right away, but Z-Wave isn't ideal for doing what you want there, Insteon is far better when it comes to lighting and scenes. That's the only limitation I can think of, everything else sounds like hardware issues on your end, as again Z-Wave's range is at least 3x better than Insteon for me. Even if I use an Insteon motion sensor to turn on a Z-Wave switch through an ISY program, it triggers that switch even faster than using an Insteon scene directly. I didn't even know Z-Wave devices could be in an Insteon scene, they don't work for me with any of my Z-Wave devices. They add but can't be controlled, and when you set things like the on level for each devices, all z-wave ones don't show up, so even when they are in a scene, they are either 0% or 100% nothing in between at least for me.
Michel Kohanim Posted January 13, 2015 Posted January 13, 2015 Hi 416to305, Thanks so very much! Hi Nestor, yes. With kind regards, Michel
Nestor Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 Hi 416to305, Thanks so very much! Hi Nestor, yes. With kind regards, Michel So it seems that, as 416to305 describes, one can add Zwave devices to scenes, but there is little to no control of those devices in the scene. Can one conclude that Zwave is for direct control or programs only?
416to305 Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 That has been my experience as like I said you can't modify criteria in the scene. However I don't really see any need to have z-wave in a scene, as I find the benefits of a scene are that they are faster, they update status, they all come on at the exact same time and so on. You won't have any of those features anyway with z-wave in there so I do everything as a program and haven't noticed any difference. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
tom.karez@gmail.com Posted January 18, 2015 Author Posted January 18, 2015 As a follow up to my issues with moving devices from smart things to the ISY it seems to have resolved itself. It did appear to be a range or positioning issue, I did re-orient the ISY to be mounted vertically instead of sitting on a desktop. That really seems to have made all the difference as devices can be excluded and included now, all over the house (I do realize it is a mesh network but it really did not work at first anywhere), with no real issues. The smart things motion sensors were never detected by the ISY, gave up and installed Insteon sensors instead which are supposed to have an adjustable sensitivty which the others do not (still need to play with this but they do work). Also have some other tilt sensors on the garage doors that keep dropping offline, never an issue with the smart things hub. I am going to hard wire some sensors for the garage doors and add the circuit to the relay/sensor modules that control the garage doors so that issue will go away and will no longer be dependent on batteries. Added a PLM as I was informed that a PLM had to be present for scenes to work, and I needed it for the motion sensors to work. That said as noted above it appears that scenes and z-wave don't play nice. You can add devices but no levels can be set, an all or nothing solution. Good for an all off/on but that is about it. Ironically the one reason I went to the ISY from the SmartThings hub was my belief that I would be able to create scenes with different dim levels, bummer. SmartThings can set a dim level across a whole scene which is useless as specific dim values across different lights just don't achieve the desired result. Is this something that is going to be included, clearly it needs to be? I know I can create programs to address this but it is not how it should be. I have too much money and time invested in z-wave hardware to switch and I do like the ability to at least in principle pick best of breed hardware and not be stuck with a specific vendor. I really do like the programabiity of the platform and hope that z-wave get's to be on par with the Insteon hardware. There are also still some limitiations on z-wave hardware that are supposed to be addressed in V5 as not all features of all my devices work right now. I also wish that Mobilinc would spend some time on their Andriod app which really is pretty sad in comparison to the IOS platform. Just not a fan of Apple telling me how everything should be...
Teken Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 As a follow up to my issues with moving devices from smart things to the ISY it seems to have resolved itself. It did appear to be a range or positioning issue, I did re-orient the ISY to be mounted vertically instead of sitting on a desktop. That really seems to have made all the difference as devices can be excluded and included now, all over the house (I do realize it is a mesh network but it really did not work at first anywhere), with no real issues. The smart things motion sensors were never detected by the ISY, gave up and installed Insteon sensors instead which are supposed to have an adjustable sensitivty which the others do not (still need to play with this but they do work). Also have some other tilt sensors on the garage doors that keep dropping offline, never an issue with the smart things hub. I am going to hard wire some sensors for the garage doors and add the circuit to the relay/sensor modules that control the garage doors so that issue will go away and will no longer be dependent on batteries. Added a PLM as I was informed that a PLM had to be present for scenes to work, and I needed it for the motion sensors to work. That said as noted above it appears that scenes and z-wave don't play nice. You can add devices but no levels can be set, an all or nothing solution. Good for an all off/on but that is about it. Ironically the one reason I went to the ISY from the SmartThings hub was my belief that I would be able to create scenes with different dim levels, bummer. SmartThings can set a dim level across a whole scene which is useless as specific dim values across different lights just don't achieve the desired result. Is this something that is going to be included, clearly it needs to be? I know I can create programs to address this but it is not how it should be. I have too much money and time invested in z-wave hardware to switch and I do like the ability to at least in principle pick best of breed hardware and not be stuck with a specific vendor. I really do like the programabiity of the platform and hope that z-wave get's to be on par with the Insteon hardware. There are also still some limitiations on z-wave hardware that are supposed to be addressed in V5 as not all features of all my devices work right now. I also wish that Mobilinc would spend some time on their Andriod app which really is pretty sad in comparison to the IOS platform. Just not a fan of Apple telling me how everything should be... Hello Tom, Thanks for the follow up there were lots of take away's from your reply for me. This is part of the reason I have not moved forward with the Z-Wave platform as its still in a state of flux and development. I think in the next year or so you will see great strides from UDI in making Z-Wave just as robust as Insteon. I too am looking forward to the 5.XX firmware branch release. This holds lots of potential and programming ability for lots of us who need the pending two way network communication and (added) variable support.
Michel Kohanim Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 Hi Nestor, Yes that is correct. Hi tom.karez, yes definitely something we are working on right now. Can you please let me know what you meant by tilt sensors dropping offline? Are they battery operated and we're you querying them to notice they were offline? With kind regards, Michel
tom.karez@gmail.com Posted January 20, 2015 Author Posted January 20, 2015 They are ecolink tilt-zwave2 sensors, battery operated. Querying would cause pop-up errors. Was looking to query lights to get updated light status (after wall switch use). Was Querying every 2 minutes. Ended up adding lights I cared about to a scene and Querying just the scene to speed things up instead of Querying everything. Tom
416to305 Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Teken don't be scared off, Z-Wave on the ISY is rock solid. Every single Z-Wave device I own added the first time I tried (some had been on Vera first, others were totally new), all features and functions work, MobiLinc works with them all exactly the same, such as Z-Wave thermostats, etc. Many Z-Wave devices have multiple options for them, but they all just appear in the ISY similar to the way all the option buttons for a KPL appear at the bottom. Schlage TouchScreen Dead Bolt 2 x GE Outdoor Modules 4 x Linear Dimmer Switches 2Gig Thermostat Philio 3 in 1 Sensor Motion Temperature Light Level If you're referring to Z-Wave in scenes, then it's like I said before, I don't see any benefit to having them in a scene. To me I believe it's working as expected right now to a certain extent, although I think it should almost prevent Z-Wave devices from being added to scenes since they can't be controlled. However what it comes down to is what do you want a scene for? An easy way to turn on a group of lights to certain levels? Or because it is hardwired into the devices should the ISY be offline? For me it's always the second reason, that's why I prefer all Insteon and scenes wherever possible over programs so that I don't have to rely on the ISY. Even if the ISY lets you add Z-Wave to a scene and set the settings, you still would need the ISY to be online to activate that scene, and even if it is on, you're not going to have all lights turn on at the exact same time like with a scene.
tom.karez@gmail.com Posted January 20, 2015 Author Posted January 20, 2015 While I did have some issues with exclusion/inclusion I really do think there was some sort of positioning or orientation issue. Once I repositioned the ISY with the few exceptions I already noted earlier the z-wave hardware has been rock solid, and was so with SmartThings as well. I think once some of the issues with missing z-wave features are sorted it should make a pretty good platform. I have to remodel a smaller conference center and feel comfortable enough that I may go down the ISY/Z-Wave path. As far as scenes go it's really not that big of a deal and a program will easily fit the bill. I just don't want the impression out there that it is all bad, it is not and I am certainly not looking to go back to what I had before, I like the programability and felixibility that this platform promises. Tom
Michel Kohanim Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Hi Tom, Thank you. I am not sure you can query some battery operated devices. Are you certain these tilt sensors are queryable? Also I spoke to Chris about scenes: I was wrong! They should work at the ISY scene level for any commands including dim/bright. The only thing not supported yet and will be is to define scene attributes. With kind regards, Michel
heardc Posted May 24, 2016 Posted May 24, 2016 I have two Yale ZWave deadbolt locks in use and they are working very well, better than any of the other battery operated zwave devices I have. Highly recommend them.
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