Phase coupler

[jwarner964]

Hi all

I was wondering if it mattered if I put the phase coupler with the same circuits as the 2 circuits I'm installing for the Plm and router

 

Thanks Jeff

[larryllix]

Connecting to the same circuit as the PLM would be a good thing to pass the signal where it is strongest.

 

A phase coupler should only be on a double pole breaker circuit so that both phase connections on the phase coupler are protected. If the unit faults both phases need to be cleared. If independent breakers were used for the 240v  only one breaker  may open on a fault and one may stay alive. Not a good situation.

[jwarner964]

Connecting to the same circuit as the PLM would be a good thing to pass the signal where it is strongest.

 

A phase coupler should only be on a double pole breaker circuit so that both phase connections on the phase coupler are protected. If the unit faults both phases need to be cleared. If independent breakers were used for the 240v  only one breaker  may open on a fault and one may stay alive. Not a good situation.

Hi

I was going to put it on a 2 pole breaker, the 2 circuits for the Plm and modem are going to be multi wire so they need to be on a 2 pole breaker just wasn't sure if sharing the same breaker would hurt the signal

Thanks

[Teken]

It should be noted that this coupler is passive in nature. Unlike the Range Extender (Access Point) this device is active and regenerates and repeats the Insteon signal.

 

I would humbly suggest the use of a AP before taking up two breaker slots.

 

Also the phase coupler does not provide any RF / power line reception - conversion.

 

Lastly, you can always move a AP you can't move a breaker.

 

 

Ideals are peaceful - History is violent

[stusviews]

The hard-wired phase coupler, which bridges the opposite legs of the center-tapped, single-phase electric supply ensures that most of the Insteon signal remains within the building. That's because Insteon signals, like virtually everything else on the powerline, travels in all direction including toward the source (i.e., distribution transformer─the large gray cylinder-like object on the telephone pole). The hard-wired phase coupler transfers Insteon signals to the opposite leg at the panel.

 

RF coupling is easier to achieve, but RF coupling between opposite legs is more easily interrupted than is hard-wired coupling. The hard-wired coupler has no RF ability nor does it repeat Insteon signals. The purpose of the hard-wired coupler is bridging, nothing else. Powerline signal suckers and signal stompers would have to overrun your whole house before they interrupted the coupling that a hard-wired device provides.

[larryllix]

Hi

I was going to put it on a 2 pole breaker, the 2 circuits for the Plm and modem are going to be multi wire so they need to be on a 2 pole breaker just wasn't sure if sharing the same breaker would hurt the signal

Thanks

"The 2 pole breaker" is actually two independent breakers inside, with only a mechanical linking between them. Each pole/circuit connects to opposite phases in your panel. The phase/leg connections are alternated in your panel so that two pole breakers will connect to both,  giving a 240 vac, dual 120 vac circuit.

Edited July 9, 2015 by larryllix

[Teken]

The hard-wired phase coupler, which bridges the opposite legs of the center-tapped, single-phase electric supply ensures that most of the Insteon signal remains within the building. That's because Insteon signals, like virtually everything else on the powerline, travels in all direction including toward the source (i.e., distribution transformer─the large gray cylinder-like object on the telephone pole). The hard-wired phase coupler transfers Insteon signals to the opposite leg at the panel.

 

RF coupling is easier to achieve, but RF coupling between opposite legs is more easily interrupted than is hard-wired coupling. The hard-wired coupler has no RF ability nor does it repeat Insteon signals. The purpose of the hard-wired coupler is bridging, nothing else. Powerline signal suckers and signal stompers would have to overrun your whole house before they interrupted the coupling that a hard-wired device provides.

I think if Smartlabs continued to sell the dryer linc this would help address the whole physical coupling. All the while not eating up the breaker slots.

 

I've enjoyed my dryer linc for years and was one of the best solutions ever offered by Smartlabs! What a shame they decided to kill off this product because it just worked . . .

 

Edited July 9, 2015 by Teken

[Brian H]

The module would have to be reworked for Insteon.

The 4826 module in your photo is strictly an X10 Coupler Repeater and had a reputation of sometimes corrupting  Insteon power line signals. By thinking the tail end of an Insteon message was an X10 one and sending an X10 message.

 

The 4816 was a similar looking one with no active electronics in it. Just a series LC network between the two Lines.

I changed the small coil in one of them to tune it closer to the Insteon power line frequency but it didn't matter that much.

 

I believe 2406H has the same coil and capacitor in it. In the case wired directly to the breakers.

Edited July 9, 2015 by Brian H

[fryfrog]

Is this what you guys are talking about? I put one in when I first started Insteon'ing... but I couldn't see any difference before or after. Since it is on its own breaker, I suppose I could turn it off and try some experiments.

[LeeG]

That is the passive coupler  (2406H).

 

The down side to that form of coupling is the Insteon signal is transferred to the opposite 120v leg at the same signal level as received.  It is normal to have signal reduction so a lose of 50% would mean the Insteon signal starts out at that reduced signal level.  With so much Dual Band devices in use today it may not make much difference because the RF signal is transmitted at full strength.  That is why I prefer Range Extenders rather than the passive coupler.

 

The up side to the passive coupler is there is no Hop needed to couple the two 120v legs. 

Edited July 9, 2015 by LeeG

[stusviews]

Yes, that's the device. But, you're unlikely to notice much difference. The coupler simply increases reliability when transmitting an Insteon across opposite legs of center-tapped, single-phase electric supply. RF reliability fluctuates. You'd have to transmit a signal during a specific unknown instant.

[fryfrog]

That is the passive coupler  (2406H).

 

The down side to that form of coupling is the Insteon signal is transferred to the opposite 120v leg at the same signal level as received.  It is normal to have signal reduction so a lose of 50% would mean the Insteon signal starts out at that reduced signal level.  With so much Dual Band devices in use today it may not make much difference because the RF signal is transmitted at full strength.  That is why I prefer Range Extenders rather than the passive coupler.

 

The up side to the passive coupler is there is no Hop needed to couple the two 120v legs. 

 

Basically *all* the switches in my house are now Insteon, so I suspect the passive phase bridge is simply redundant at this point. Maybe it helped a little when I only had a few devices.

[Teken]

The module would have to be reworked for Insteon.

The 4826 module in your photo is strictly an X10 Coupler Repeater and had a reputation of sometimes corrupting  Insteon power line signals. By thinking the tail end of an Insteon message was an X10 one and sending an X10 message.

 

The 4816 was a similar looking one with no active electronics in it. Just a series LC network between the two Lines.

I changed the small coil in one of them to tune it closer to the Insteon power line frequency but it didn't matter that much.

 

I believe 2406H has the same coil and capacitor in it. In the case wired directly to the breakers.

 

I actually have both 4826 & 4818 units on hand. 

 

Interesting the manual indicates the 4826 does couple both single split phase and assists in X-10 communications. But, it also states it doesn't impact Insteon signal integrity. The only reason I decided to install and use the 4826 over my other 4818 passive coupler is that I have considered purchasing a few X-10 devices for a project.

 

Unfortunately I have been side tracked on other projects and never got around to it.

 

I haven't seen any Insteon signal degradation in my own environment at all using this active X-10 repeater.

[Brian H]

Well my fading memory maybe failing.

I thought I had seen the transmit LED for the phases flash at times with Insteon Message but maybe it was the received LED.

[IndyMike]

Brian,

 

I believe the 4826 had issues handling "Dim" commands from the X10 CM15a (firestorm event).  Being that the 4826 is labeled as a "true X10 repeater", it should have been able to distinguish between X10 and Insteon transmissions.

 

The Boosterlinc was a real time booster.  It attempted to discriminate between Insteon/X10 by the start of the waveform in relation to the 60Hz zero crossing.  It would invariably get fooled into thinking a low level Insteon transmission was X10 and would transmit on top of the Insteon.