New INSTEON 2663-22X On/Off for 100-277V 50/60Hz?

[PhilB]

Is there a plan to provide support for this new Insteon outlet for other than 120V/60Hz?  I see you do have some European models, but for 240V/50Hz.  Currently, I use your switches/dimmers and in-linelincs that support 100-277V/50/60Hz.  I would like to be able to use the new 2663 series for controlling low current devices.  My current Insteon installation uses devices in the 915MHz band, so none of the European models would be compatible.  The voltage here is 240V/60Hz, which again is not compatible with the European switches.

[kohai]

I googled 240v/60hz and found Guyana uses it.  Now I'm curious, when you say "here" where is that?   

[Brian H]

You do know UDI is not part of Smarthome/Smartlabs. So questions on Insteon products features may not be available here.

 

Where did you see a universal voltage type 2663-22x Outletlinc?

Sales pages only show 120 volt 60 cycle single phase models. Manuals show 120 volt 50/60 cycle single phase.

 

It would be unsafe to have a 277 volt OuletLinc as the sockets on it are a standard 120 volt 15 amp style. Put 277 volts on it and plug in a standard 120 volt device. Bang and Smoke!

[Teken]

This is a thread I created which tracks the most recent data from Smartlabs. As of that writing there were no indicators that such an outlet was in production.

 

Then again we have all been surprised by various hardware not even listed which off the top of my head were: Alert Module, Morning Linc.

 

Perhaps in 2016 our brothers across the pond will see even more Insteon hardware.

 

http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/17006-new-insteon-products/

[PhilB]

You do know UDI is not part of Smarthome/Smartlabs. So questions on Insteon products features may not be available here.

 

Where did you see a universal voltage type 2663-22x Outletlinc?

Sales pages only show 120 volt 60 cycle single phase models. Manuals show 120 volt 50/60 cycle single phase.

 

It would be unsafe to have a 277 volt OuletLinc as the sockets on it are a standard 120 volt 15 amp style. Put 277 volts on it and plug in a standard 120 volt device. Bang and Smoke!

I need it for 240 volt 60 Hz.  The NEMA 5-15 style plug is used here (Philippines) as well as some 240 Volt style (NEMA 6-15 or 6-30).  The only dedicated 120 Volt device I have is the PLM required for my ISY994 series controller (this is one more device I am hoping will eventually be available in a 120/240 or 100-277 volt version, if Smarthome will sell the required chips to UDI as mentioned elsewhere on these forums).  For the European users, they also need the 50 Hz, but that is not an issue here.  These days, almost everything I own has a universal power supply anyway, or has a switch on the back for either 120/240 Volt operation.  Every electronic device I brought with me from North America works here as well, from computers and battery chargers to TVs.  The power cords are the same here, so no need to change them either.

[PhilB]

You do know UDI is not part of Smarthome/Smartlabs. So questions on Insteon products features may not be available here.

 

Where did you see a universal voltage type 2663-22x Outletlinc?

Sales pages only show 120 volt 60 cycle single phase models. Manuals show 120 volt 50/60 cycle single phase.

 

It would be unsafe to have a 277 volt OuletLinc as the sockets on it are a standard 120 volt 15 amp style. Put 277 volts on it and plug in a standard 120 volt device. Bang and Smoke!

Even on the US Smarthome site they do have some European products listed, but not the 2663-2xx series Outletlinc.  The problem with the European models is they are listed as 50 Hz only, and they have the wrong plug types.  The European standard for RF is also different (869 versus 915 MHz). The 2663-2xx series can control both outlets now, plus they are tamperproof for the young ones, both features I wanted over the previous version.  I did find online instructions for modifying previous versions or possibly X10 versions for use on 240 Volt/50 Hz.  Since I don't have the 50Hz issue here, it could be as simple as replacing a capacitor with the required voltage rating.  A quick look at the components inside show the ratings for multiple voltages from 15 amp @ 120 volts to 10 amps @ 240 volts listed on the components.  I haven't yet checked the other capacitors for voltage rating since they are glued down.  I would prefer if Smarthome just made a global version and solved the issue for many customers.   

[Brian H]

Thank you for the added information.

 

You may want to ask in the Insteon Forum and Smarthome Forum. Both are run by the companies and sell  the the Insteon Devices.

http://forum.smarthome.com/

http://forum.insteon.com/

 

The problem that I see. Is someone here in the US. Seeing the 100-277 volt specification. Connecting it to a 220 volt source and the outlet is then a violation of the NEC. As our 220 volt outlets have horizontal sockets. So a 120 volt device can not be connected to it.

 

As for a 100-277 volt 50/60 Cycle PLM. We can still hope Smatlabs eventually sells the ICs to UDI.

Though I have seen a reference to a HUB style PLM from Smatthome.

[Brian H]

The 2663-222 does not use the simple capacitor derived power supply. There is no simple capacitor change for 220 volt use.

The photos in the FCC Database show it uses the LNK354GN Switching Power Supply IC. Like many of the other newer Insteon devices.

I would suspect some components would have to be changed. Like the Line Voltage DC filter capacitor and other power setting components.

 

FCC Database.

https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/GenericSearch.cfm

Grantee: SBP

Product Code:2663

Details Tab

Photos and other test data there.

[PhilB]

The 2663-222 does not use the simple capacitor derived power supply. There is no simple capacitor change for 220 volt use.

The photos in the FCC Database show it uses the LNK354GN Switching Power Supply IC. Like many of the other newer Insteon devices.

I would suspect some components would have to be changed. Like the Line Voltage DC filter capacitor and other power setting components.

 

FCC Database.

https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/GenericSearch.cfm

Grantee: SBP

Product Code:2663

Details Tab

Photos and other test data there.

Thanks Brian,

 

Interesting chip, specs say input voltage rated for 85 to 265 VAC.  That must be the 2 chips I saw rated up to 10 amps @ 240 volts.  I would be happy even with only 7.5 amps , since the current draw for the usual loads are cut in half running on 240 volts. Changing the filter capacitor to a higher voltage rating would be trivial, but I would prefer to have a certified/tested device myself.  Maybe Smarthome/Insteon is not so far away from making a 240 Volt version.  I can see how it would be an issue for North American customers since the NEMA 5-15 plug is not used for 240 Volt equipment.  Normally, here I only use the NEMA 6-30 with the horizontal blades for higher current devices.  In the Philippines, the regulations are from the PEC, which is a virtual copy of the NEC documentation.  I haven't looked at the wording regarding outlets/power cords, but there must be some changes there.  Every store that sells electrical supplies has what looks like standard North American outlets, but the rating says 15 amps @ 240 volts.  For now I can get by with In-Linelincs rated for 20 amps @ 100-277 volts.  The issue with those is the size, since the standard electrical box is very shallow here in the Philippines.  Anyway, Smarthome is far ahead of most, if not all the other companies in the home automation market when it comes to 240 volt & 50/60 Hz compatible devices.

[larryllix]

The newer SwitchLinc dimmers are rated up to 277volts as well as many other modules.

 

https://www.aartech.ca/related/2477D_V7_Manual.pdf

 

https://www.aartech.ca/2475sdb-smarthome-insteon-dual-band-inlinelinc-on-off-module.html

 

https://www.aartech.ca/product/00/2443-222/INSTEON-Micro-On-Off-Module

 

Ratings on strictly mechanical type devices are a different item. Most of our receptacles and wiring is rated at 300vac but the approved usage is only 120vac by safety standards.

[Brian H]

If you are referring to the two TRVF-24VDC-SD-AL modules in the photo. They are relays. One for controlling one of the two outlets.

At 120 VAC the contacts are rated for 15 amps at 250 VAC 10 amps.

[PhilB]

The newer SwitchLinc dimmers are rated up to 277volts as well as many other modules.

 

https://www.aartech.ca/related/2477D_V7_Manual.pdf

 

https://www.aartech.ca/2475sdb-smarthome-insteon-dual-band-inlinelinc-on-off-module.html

 

https://www.aartech.ca/product/00/2443-222/INSTEON-Micro-On-Off-Module

 

Ratings on strictly mechanical type devices are a different item. Most of our receptacles and wiring is rated at 300vac but the approved usage is only 120vac by safety standards.

Thanks Larry,

 

I do already use all of the devices you have listed there.  It is great that Smarthome was one of the first adopters of universal/commercial voltage devices.  It is the primary reason I purchased the Insteon product line, due to the support for 240 Volt devices.  I already use the Inlinelinc and Micro-on-off module as well as numerous 2477D and S model dimmers and switches all rated for 100-277V.  I would prefer to use the OutletLinc, primarily for easy control of both outlets, plus the tamper proof outlets for children.  Here in the Philippines, the choices can be very limited.  I have never seen any tamper proof outlets at any of the normal hardware/electrical supply stores here, which I could use with either the Inlinelinc or Micro on-off.  Even finding electrical boxes that will fit 2477D or S is a problem, let alone an electrical box deep enough to fit an Inlinelinc and the faceplate on top of it.