MustangChris04 Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 I'm having an issue using the "Alexa, dim the lights to 50%" command. ("Lights" is the spoken work for the scene") I have a scene with a keypadlinc dimmer for the lights and another keypad as a controller/responder (like a 3-way). When I use the command for the scene to dim I get a response of "That command doesn't work on device lights". If I use the command "Alexa, dim the lights" the lights reduce output by about 10%. Question is, why can I use the command "Dim the lights" but not "Dim the lights to 50%"? Certainly if it responds correctly to me asking to dim the lights, it should be capable of responding to a specific percentage. Where is the dimming factor defined that is making it dim by about 10% at a time? I have to ask the Echo to dim the lights 5 times before I get to a level of around 50%. Thanks, Christopher Link to comment
jerlands Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 Here's what works for me.. Alexa, upstairs bathroom light on 50% Jon... Link to comment
MustangChris04 Posted March 9, 2016 Author Share Posted March 9, 2016 Here's what works for me.. Alexa, upstairs bathroom light on 50% Jon... Thanks for the suggestion, I still get the same error of "That command doesn't work on device lights". Link to comment
ScottAvery Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 You cannot dim a "scene" to a specific level. Insteon protocol issue, discussed in a few other threads here. Benoit added ability to dim/brighten scenes in 9% (ish) intervals by issuing the command to dim or brighten it. If there is only one lighting device in the scene, just target that device. Link to comment
ScottAvery Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Added, note, you could use a program to get your secondary keypad back in synch with the one that has the load. Link to comment
MustangChris04 Posted March 9, 2016 Author Share Posted March 9, 2016 You cannot dim a "scene" to a specific level. Insteon protocol issue, discussed in a few other threads here. Benoit added ability to dim/brighten scenes in 9% (ish) intervals by issuing the command to dim or brighten it. If there is only one lighting device in the scene, just target that device. Interesting. Thank you for this. I suppose that the 9% cannot be configured? With the output curve of my LED lights, I don't notice it start dimming until it is 75% or below. So I'd have to ask Alexa to dim 3 times before I even notice it dimming. Added, note, you could use a program to get your secondary keypad back in synch with the one that has the load. Thank you. This is what I was thinking of doing to work around this, although not ideal. Link to comment
ScottAvery Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Interesting. Thank you for this. I suppose that the 9% cannot be configured? With the output curve of my LED lights, I don't notice it start dimming until it is 75% or below. So I'd have to ask Alexa to dim 3 times before I even notice it dimming. Thank you. This is what I was thinking of doing to work around this, although not ideal. Currently it pulses 3 times, where 3% is the nominal amount of dimming for an Insteon scene dim/brighten. I too would like to have an option to set it to 5-7 pulses. Anyone else want to see this made a variable that the admin can set in the portal? Link to comment
Tim McDermott Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 I, too would find this enhancement useful. I have a couple of LED fixtures that would benefit from coarser granularity to dimming commands. Link to comment
stusviews Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 The 3% per brightness change is an Insteon restriction. Benoit miraculously found a way to issue three consecutive changes with one command. More than that is simply not possible unless the Inston protocol is changed-ain't gonna happen. There are a couple of solutions. I use both. Most often, a specific preset is used. In that case, a pair of scenes works best. For example, we mostly use two levels in our living room, so we have two scenes with spokens, "light" and "bright light." "Alexa, turn the light on," or "Alexa, turn the bright light on." Create your own adjectives, such as love, low, lively, loud The second solution is best if you want to specify different levels that would involve too many scenes. Simply add the scene and the device wired to the load. Give each a different spoken, respectively, such as "light" and "ceiling light." Devices do respond to %age levels, so you can ask, "Alexa, turn the light on," for the scene and, "Alexa, set the ceiling light to xy," for a specific %age. You do not need to voice "percent." Link to comment
ScottAvery Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 The 3% per brightness change is an Insteon restriction. Benoit miraculously found a way to issue three consecutive changes with one command. More than that is simply not possible unless the Inston protocol is changed-ain't gonna happen. I don't think it was a miracle, I think by his own description he hardcoded it to call the dim/bright 3 times in a row. Link to comment
MustangChris04 Posted March 10, 2016 Author Share Posted March 10, 2016 I see the same command in the log being sent in repetition 3 times in a row. Surely there would be a way to program a variable instead of hard coding it. Link to comment
stusviews Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 I see the same command in the log being sent in repetition 3 times in a row. Surely there would be a way to program a variable instead of hard coding it. As long as you can beat the clock Link to comment
Fatty Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 so I got this problem too. Two switches controlling overhead can lighting, a keypad that actually controls the load and a switch on the other side of the room that controls the "scene overhead lighting". This allows the most important feature of the on off LED's on the keypad and the ramping LED on the other switch to mirror each other. I know I'm crazy but I cant live if they don't match. In comes isy portal and Alexa, Can't dim the scene with alexa can only turn it on and off. tried all sorts of ways but no go. I finally named the load controlling switch ceiling lights 1 and the other switch ceiling lights 2 in the spoken section of the portal portal. I then had alexa discover devices so that both appeared and added both into a group called ceiling lights. Now with spoken work ceiling lights everything works beautifully. I can now say ceiling lights (xx) percent and they change quickly to that, no 9% rule. Most importantly the on/off led matches on/off of the lights and the ramp approximates the brightness on the other switch. So whats the question? Is this going to burn my house down? I know it won't but I want someone else to tell me its ok. Link to comment
sdcrane Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Currently it pulses 3 times, where 3% is the nominal amount of dimming for an Insteon scene dim/brighten. I too would like to have an option to set it to 5-7 pulses. Anyone else want to see this made a variable that the admin can set in the portal? Yes, I would love to see this. Who is Benoit? Can he at least try to make it 4 or 5 or 6 instead of 3? Been doing the Alexa "Groups" thing to be able to set dim levels of multiple devices, but it would be great to have a usable "Dim Scene" command that I don't have to issue 4 times in order to get it down to a decent level. I know I can create a secondary Scene with the same items but a different Spoken Name and have them set to that Dim level.. that's certainly an option. Link to comment
larryllix Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Don't use scenes for it then. Use the devices. I don't use any scenes with the Echo, only programs that activate scenes for Insteon and dozens of other devices that co-oribate by programs only. "Alexa. Turn on xxx lights to 50%" Link to comment
TheFallenAngel Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Here's what works for me.. Alexa, upstairs bathroom light on 50% Jon... Jon, this works on devices, not scenes.. Cheers, Alex Link to comment
TheFallenAngel Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Currently it pulses 3 times, where 3% is the nominal amount of dimming for an Insteon scene dim/brighten. I too would like to have an option to set it to 5-7 pulses. Anyone else want to see this made a variable that the admin can set in the portal? Me too, I would think ~20% at a time is useful, the current 9% is simply not use full.. Maybe 6 pulses for 18% would be good compromise? Cheers, Alex Link to comment
stusviews Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Yes, I would love to see this. Who is Benoit? Can he at least try to make it 4 or 5 or 6 instead of 3? Been doing the Alexa "Groups" thing to be able to set dim levels of multiple devices, but it would be great to have a usable "Dim Scene" command that I don't have to issue 4 times in order to get it down to a decent level. I know I can create a secondary Scene with the same items but a different Spoken Name and have them set to that Dim level.. that's certainly an option. Benoit is the ISY engineer for the Amazon Echo. As I indicated, three dim levels is the maximum that the Insteon protocol can be coaxed to. That standard is not likely to change. That Benoit actually got three levels in one command is an tribute to his expertise. Four or five or six is personal. There is probably no one level that would satisfy even a plurality of users, let alone most users Link to comment
larryllix Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Logarithmic levels would be excellent! Light intensity response to the human is is logarithmic and also LEDs tend to hang on to every last bit of voltage they can get so they don't appear linear. This would make 100%, 50%, 25%, 12.5%, 6% for example. Link to comment
stusviews Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 The last step in your progression would be 6.25%. In any case, the progression you listed is not logarithmic. Link to comment
larryllix Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 The last step in your progression would be 6.25%. In any case, the progression you listed is not logarithmic. Sure it is. log2( 6.25 / 3.125) = 1 log2( 12.5 / 3.125) = 2 log2( 25 / 3.125) = 3 log2( 50 / 3.125) = 4 log2( 100 / 3.12 5) = 5 Link to comment
stusviews Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 True, but when the base of the logarithm is not specified, then the base is always considered to be 10. Also, the curve for the human eye to the sensitivity to light is not based on log2. If it were, then a change from 100% to 50% would be a just noticeable difference. Link to comment
larryllix Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Yeah but the LED bulbs don't appear to follow a consistent curve either. I had to replace one CREE bulb in a dining room fixture of 5 bulbs. Despite being the same power rating CREE, they changed their style and it dims differently than the other four. Looks awful about 15-25% . I guess back to your point I don't think people need all these 0-100% either. Ramping is one thing, for looks, but people don't need many "clicks", just maybe full, medium, low, very dim. We don't need to have 48, 49, & 50% for fan speeds either. Link to comment
stusviews Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 In fact, I do need most of the brightness range. I don't need the range as a continuous option, but there's a place where 17% is ideal and another where I use 12%. I also use 20%, 25%, 50%, 85% and even more. Without the full range being available, I couldn't set these specific points. Virtually all the lighting uses two set points and a few have three. I rarely have need to adjust the brightness on-the-fly. No, I'm not illuminating insects, only readers Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.