Insteon 2477d - necessary basics

[GuitarMan86]

Hi All,

 

I am getting prepared for the arrival of my ISY994iZw and looking to get some basics down on necessary switches and requirements.

 

I will utilize the ISY for all Insteon lighting (going Insteon for control switches throughout the house).  Couple of things I was able to obtain from Insteon on the wiring were that you NEED TO HAVE a 2477d on both ends of the 3-way for control.

 

Just wanted to get some clarity and opinions on wiring because I thought I saw some other posts noting ways around this?  As this will now double my cost for controllable dimmer switches throughout the home.

 

I will be using the Insteon PLM (serial version) for ISY control:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002X8W4SI/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=62999609124&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=10620109406366997707&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_4vndtz038x_b

 

So, looking at starting in my Theater room I have all recessed lighting with 3-way switches that have a 'dimmer' switch on one end and just a '3-way' switch on the other end.

 

I was speaking to Insteon and they stated that you DO NEED a 2477d on both ends to have control of the switch?  I was looking at only wiring the 2477d on one end and leaving the other 3-way intact.

 

Just wanted to make sure I am purchasing what is necessary here?  Any thoughts are much appreciated.

 

 

[Teken]

Yes, the rooms that have the 3/4 ways switches will be *virtually* linked together via Insteon. You will cap off the traveler wires in those existing walls.

 

Best practice is to also take lots of photos and mark the wires for future use and trouble shooting. Also, always measure twice all wires to ensure the breaker you turned off is indeed the correct one.

 

120 VAC can kill a person given the right conditions . . .

 

Ideally you should follow the two man rule having your GF / Wife at the ready to assist. 

[GuitarMan86]

Thanks Teken....that makes sense (looking at the install manual as you responded) having them 'virtually' connected if they are 3 or 4 way switches.  Guess I was hoping I wouldn't have to double my switch purchases...ugggh

 

Looks like I will be swapping out many more switches than I thought! heh.

 

I agree with the advice of taking photos and labeling along the way.  Makes things much easier later....  Good thing is...I am a musician and learned to do that along the way with all the other gear I have to maintain lol

[Teken]

Thanks Teken....that makes sense (looking at the install manual as you responded) having them 'virtually' connected if they are 3 or 4 way switches.  Guess I was hoping I wouldn't have to double my switch purchases...ugggh

 

Looks like I will be swapping out many more switches than I thought! heh.

 

I agree with the advice of taking photos and labeling along the way.  Makes things much easier later....  Good thing is...I am a musician and learned to do that along the way with all the other gear I have to maintain lol

 

Trust me most of us know this pain of *What the hell - I need to buy more switches* ?!?! 

 

LOL . . .

 

Keep in mind this may not sound financially sound or even make sense when I say this. But, before you drop any money on the single switch linc  relay / dimmers. I want you to consider how you can extend the control and function of your beautiful home now and into the future.

 

Consider investing some extra money into KPL dimmers - The reason for this is it will allow you to control 5 to 8 different loads or devices virtually.

 

I can't begin to tell you how many times I've thanked Smartlabs for coming out in solving the ability to control another remote load in the home! Keeping in mind the KPL can be assigned to do other things besides turn on a load / device. 

 

It can be used to control Sonos, Shades, Fans, GDO etc.

 

NOTE: Best practices before you move forward is to do the following. Take photo's of all the new gear so you know the MAC code, production date, hardware revision. Hard reset all devices to ensure they are in a OEM state which will ensure no ghost links and programming are present.

 

Go find a old lamp cord and cut off the end so you can add, test, link, at the kitchen table. This will save lots of standing and back ache when you have trouble shooting or lots of programming to do. It will also save you tons of time when you need to do a *Replace With* because a device failed.

[jerlands]

A voltmeter is invaluable and there's lots of info floating around on wiring including alternative methods.

 

 

 

Jon...

[larryllix]

A motion detector and one Switchlinc dimmer can replace the 3 way function with the bonus of ISY knowing you are home and not having to touch a light switch spreading nasty bacteria

 

Who wants to touch switches and mark up walls in the dark anyway?

 

Wife and I make jokes when we travel to other homes now. ' OMG! You have to get up and push on the switches here! Imagine still having to get up and change channels on the TV?'

 

Sent from my SGH-I257M using Tapatalk

[GuitarMan86]

A motion detector and one Switchlinc dimmer can replace the 3 way function with the bonus of ISY knowing you are home and not having to touch a light switch spreading nasty bacteria

 

Who wants to touch switches and mark up walls in the dark anyway?

 

Wife and I make jokes when we travel to other homes now. ' OMG! You have to get up and push on the switches here! Imagine still having to get up and change channels on the TV?'

 

Sent from my SGH-I257M using Tapatalk

 

haha....too funny

 

My first project is to take care of my downstairs Theater room (which is also my office).  I could use the motion detector in other areas of the home once I get there hah.

A voltmeter is invaluable and there's lots of info floating around on wiring including alternative methods.

 

 

 

Jon...

 

That is one of the articles I also caught which provoked my topic here

[larryllix]

MSes don't work well for sit-still areas.

 

Sent from my SGH-I257M using Tapatalk

[GuitarMan86]

Keep in mind this may not sound financially sound or even make sense when I say this. But, before you drop any money on the single switch linc  relay / dimmers. I want you to consider how you can extend the control and function of your beautiful home now and into the future.

 

Consider investing some extra money into KPL dimmers - The reason for this is it will allow you to control 5 to 8 different loads or devices virtually.

 

I can't begin to tell you how many times I've thanked Smartlabs for coming out in solving the ability to control another remote load in the home! Keeping in mind the KPL can be assigned to do other things besides turn on a load / device. 

 

It can be used to control Sonos, Shades, Fans, GDO etc.

 

I am assuming KPL means the keypad link modules? Strategically located where they can perform additional functionality?

 

Makes sense....additional cost

Mapping out my downstairs I came up with 9 Insteon 2477d switches to replace all 3ways.... Wonderful lol

[Teken]

I am assuming KPL means the keypad link modules? Strategically located where they can perform additional functionality?

 

Makes sense....additional cost

Mapping out my downstairs I came up with 9 Insteon 2477d switches to replace all 3ways.... Wonderful lol

 

Yes, place them where they make sense and blend into the decor. Its easy to get caught up using lots of KPL's but sometimes it looks really busy and kinda ghetto.

 

Since you have nine switches that need replacing due to the obvious Insteon linking requirement. Stand in the room and where each switch is and consider what you would like to control in the future. Taking the time now to plan ahead and understanding the small investment now will reap huge rewards down the road for you.

 

Again, if finances are tight just do one room at a time until these nice to haves are finally completed. Very few people have gone balls out and replaced their entire home of every dumb switch / outlet.

 

It took me three passes over the years even though I could have replaced everything in my home at once. But, the reality was I knew with 100% some areas simply did not require that kind of investment or costs. Rarely used if ever outlets made no sense in replacing with a smart outlet that was going to sit there and be wasted.

 

Also back in the day the energy consumption of the Insteon devices were pretty high. Imagine a steady 100 watts which you have no control over sucking down the power in your home 24.7.365.

 

For me I simply couldn't allow or accept 150 plus watts stuck to my home I had no control over which cost me money. Given the advancement in better power supplies and components most of the Insteon line up has done better in this area.

 

But its still an area people need to consider along with liabilities . . .

 

Do not replace any room, floor, zone, with a smart switch or outlet that is mission critical. As the results could be extremely costly and deadly if life and safety devices are attached.

 

A perfect example is don't place a smart outlet on a fridge, sump, HVAC system . . . 

[GuitarMan86]

So, are these switches consuming a lot now? Am I going to see a huge change for the worse....confused. I thought these would be less costly with control and dimming etc.

[jerlands]

So, are these switches consuming a lot now? Am I going to see a huge change for the worse....confused. I thought these would be less costly with control and dimming etc.

 

I think Insteon devices consume about a watt each so 50 devices = 50Watts

 

 

Jon...

[Teken]

So, are these switches consuming a lot now? Am I going to see a huge change for the worse....confused. I thought these would be less costly with control and dimming etc.

 

My comment was more from a standby consumption stand point vs load control and usage. Depending upon the type and model of Insteon device they consume from 0.45 watts upwards to 1.55 watts.

 

Most of the newer Insteon switches consume less than 1 watt and hover around 0.45 - 0.65 watts. The plugin devices like the lamp linc / on-off module consume from 0.53 - 0.83 watts.

 

The worst case scenario is to plan on 1 watt consumption . . . 

[stusviews]

All HA device use electric so that you can communicate with them. Even your TV uses electric when it's off, otherwise you couldn't use your remote to turn it on. Devices can save electricity by turning the load off remotely and/or automatically when they're not needed. Incandescent loads are not linear, so setting device to 50% may save 35-40%. But, LEDs are linear, setting the load to 50% will save half the cost.

 

But, you are also gaining the ability to automate your home. That alone may be worth the power expended

[GuitarMan86]

One more question around the Insteon devices here....

 

One of the switches I wanted to replace (sooner or later) is the master bedroom light/ceiling fan which is a low/med/high fan control with a light dimmer (two circular switches in a one gang switch.

 

Is the Insteon fan controller (sits in the fan housing) my only option here for a single dimmer/switch type of control for this scenario?

[Teken]

One more question around the Insteon devices here....

 

One of the switches I wanted to replace (sooner or later) is the master bedroom light/ceiling fan which is a low/med/high fan control with a light dimmer (two circular switches in a one gang switch.

 

Is the Insteon fan controller (sits in the fan housing) my only option here for a single dimmer/switch type of control for this scenario?

 

This would be easily handled by a KPL Dimmer. Keeping in mind the fanlinc actually controls the light fixture. So at the light switch the load wire would be capped off.

 

To finish off the look and feel purchase the custom fan linc keys.

 

NOTE: If you're on a limited budget you can also install a switch linc dimmer. Using one of the several functions of the Insteon protocol and the 994 Series Controller would allow you to activate the light and various fan modes.

 

Which are on, fast on, off, fast off, dim.

 

Using the power of the 994 Series Controller would enable you to create programs that monitor multiple taps to enable low, medium, high fan modes.

 

The above is a novel way to do the same thing but isn't very intuitive to a lay person or to a stranger.

[larryllix]

I was just about to say the same as Teken using a SwitchLinc.

 

Some of the quirks.

- fast on would turn on the lamp full when controlling the fan speed.

- fast off would turn the lamp off when controlling the fan speed.

-dim and brighten could be used be would mess with the lamp brightness

 

Capping off the load wire from the Switchlinc could avoid most of this.

 

I would probably use the On/Off to control the lamp and the Fast On/Off to control the fan.

The lamp could have 0, 50, 100% from the On tap with ISY

The fan could have Off, low, med, high from the Fast On tap  with ISY

 

Strangers (as per Teken) would be able to intuitively operate the lamp but only trained people would know how to operate the fan.

[GuitarMan86]

Pulled the trigger tonight on 10 total 2477d switches, a Serial PLM and a lamp module.....

 

The 10 switches is only for downstairs. Uggghhhh..... Got to start somewhere

 

And, also found out my Amazon Echo has shipped. Fun stuff ahead! ....I hope haha

[larryllix]

Pulled the trigger tonight on 10 total 2477d switches, a Serial PLM and a lamp module.....

 

The 10 switches is only for downstairs. Uggghhhh..... Got to start somewhere

 

And, also found out my Amazon Echo has shipped. Fun stuff ahead! ....I hope haha

Nice!

   

       You're hooked!

[MWoods329]

A motion detector and one Switchlinc dimmer can replace the 3 way function with the bonus of ISY knowing you are home and not having to touch a light switch spreading nasty bacteria

 

Who wants to touch switches and mark up walls in the dark anyway?

 

Wife and I make jokes when we travel to other homes now. ' OMG! You have to get up and push on the switches here! Imagine still having to get up and change channels on the TV?'

 

Sent from my SGH-I257M using Tapatalk

Same here.

Last time we stayed in a hotel my wife kept walking in and out of the bathroom saying "what's wrong with the lights, they aren't turning on".