Teken Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 Maybe I just use my security alarm system as it's intended. My system is always in a armed state which requires me to do things differently than what is common to most. This same methodology / ideology is used in all level 4 and above facilities. Think military, government, biohazard containment. Scenarios: When I am about to go to bed or know I'm staying in I can press one single button to (affirm) and arm the home in stay mode. I don't use the above method but it's an option - what I do use and each member of the family badges in, enters their unique user, and password to do so. This is done so the logs reflect accurately who did so. Because this is a compliance and policy requirement for my system and cUL listing. If by chance I or anyone else forgets the system will check all zones, faults, or active bypass in progress. If all is well the system will (affirm) and auto arm itself, notify, and ring back the same the system always knows who is physically home and will react as stated below. A auto arm, stay, force, instant arm / bypass log is appended and generated to the system which I at a future date must explain in a paper log & electronic log. If and when I or anyone else leaves the home we merely badge out and place 1 of 10 fingers to a finger print scanner to disarm and unsecure the home. You will note I said disarm - not arm the home this is counter to what 99.99999% of what consumer grade alarms do. You will also note there is a minimum of two form authentication of what you know, carry, and have. This only pertains to leaving not entering the home. Again, assuming each of us forget to disarm the home the system will auto arm, secure the home, log the event, ring back to ensure the TOC / CS has received the same. As noted up above another log will be auto generated which again needs to be explained and documented for review and submission. Besides the self auditing listed up top there is nothing complex, hard, or laborious to do. As stated early on people can do what ever they like it really matters not to me. The reality is none of the people who speak about using software / hardware that isn't certified for security use are indeed serious about true security. Because if they were, they would already know their security rating is 1 or below! When people say they intend to use something like Alexa to do the very same it's plainly obvious security is not the main driver convenience is. These are the same people who truly believe and use IFTTT to connect and manage their security alarm system the same way. Yet we also have people gluing a RPi to alarm panels thinking this is real bitchen! Yeah, security was really top of mind when they decided to do that! Why isn't the banks, police, hospital, business, military, government, fire department, insert name here doing the very same? Clearly all of the above industries must be missing the obvious?!? Let's all speak plainly and call a spade a spade. This is all about doing as little as possible not about true security. Who knew the pet rock, cabbage patch kids had so much power over the General public! ========================= The highest calling in life is to serve ones country faithfully - Teach others what can be. Do what is right and not what is popular.
apostolakisl Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 I contacted my insurance agent (Farmer's) to inquire if Farmer's would deny a claim because of connecting the alarm system to home automation/internet in the event that this was related to a failed alert. She got back to me with a definitive "no", the claim would not be denied. I would point out that this is HOME automation. Not military, banking, high value commercial automation. Those policies would be written differently and likely require that certain protocols be followed. The fact that I have a myriad of ways to turn on my alarm system means my alarm actually gets turned on. As I think you implied earlier, this is in all likelihood the most common reason that an alarm fails to detect an intrusion When I leave my teenage kids home alone, I can arm "stay" even though I am leaving by pushing a button in my car, or I can arm away if no one is there. A button next to my bed instantly arms to night mode. I can arm my alarm from my harmony remotes, or I can tell Alexa to arm it. All together, this means that my family and I pretty much always use it. To fear an internet guru hacker is interested in hacking my alarm and then actually robbing me just doesn't strike me as being in the top 100 ways I might have a home intrusion. If I were hacked, I would imagine it would be some looser in Russia or something getting his jollies with no intention of actually coming to my house.
Teken Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 I contacted my insurance agent (Farmer's) to inquire if Farmer's would deny a claim because of connecting the alarm system to home automation/internet in the event that this was related to a failed alert. She got back to me with a definitive "no", the claim would not be denied. I would point out that this is HOME automation. Not military, banking, high value commercial automation. Those policies would be written differently and likely require that certain protocols be followed. The fact that I have a myriad of ways to turn on my alarm system means my alarm actually gets turned on. As I think you implied earlier, this is in all likelihood the most common reason that an alarm fails to detect an intrusion When I leave my teenage kids home alone, I can arm "stay" even though I am leaving by pushing a button in my car, or I can arm away if no one is there. A button next to my bed instantly arms to night mode. I can arm my alarm from my harmony remotes, or I can tell Alexa to arm it. All together, this means that my family and I pretty much always use it. To fear an internet guru hacker is interested in hacking my alarm and then actually robbing me just doesn't strike me as being in the top 100 ways I might have a home intrusion. If I were hacked, I would imagine it would be some looser in Russia or something getting his jollies with no intention of actually coming to my house. I suspect given the general nature of the inquiry the reply you obtained would be the case. If however, you told her you linked a un-certified voice activated device to the alarm system to unlock the door and disarm the system. There is a higher likely hood her reply would have been *Let me get back to you* then followed up with *No*. The insurance company provided you a reduced rate because you showed them you have taken some common sense approaches with respect to securing your home from *Risks*. Why would you expect the insurance company to pay out anything when someone has increased their risk?!? Does that not counter the whole point of them offering you a reduced insurance rate as stated above? The market is filled with good and bad insurance companies and hope very much the one you have is fair, professional, and stand at the ready should anything ever happen. No one including the insurance company should have to take a financial loss due to someones direct negligence. As you noted early on life is about risks and people must decide how much of that risk they are willing to take. I on the other hand know first hand all the risks that surround me each and every day. Thus, I don't allow *Fad Like Things* to have direct command and control of my systems, ever. Conversations like these are easy to point out why there are minimum standards and at the same time why X isn't done over Y. There have been no less than twenty people messaging me about this topic and wanted clarification as to my views and other aspects of security. One member asked what is wrong with an alarm system from Walmart? Another asked how come using a wireless systems derates the entire unit? What's wrong in connecting some random guys software connected to a RPi? All three of these questions are not only valid but high lights the disparity of knowledge, standards, and offering true security when speaking about the electronic aspects. It's easy for me any everyone else to thumb their noses at some random person buying a noise maker from Walmart. Why?? It's easy to do the very same with a person who had some *Stick & Run* alarm company install an entire wireless system. Why? It's also profoundly and easy to make fun of anyone connecting a RPi to the very same. Why? People often struggle to understand when I say *Anyone Serious* and what I mean. In general terms anyone who is serious would have taken the time to ask questions, done some research, engaged professionals in that field, etc. That is the first part of being serious in this industry. Next, if someone was serious they would hard wire every sensor, contact, in the system. That same *Serious Person* would have also installed EOL resistors to ensure any line fault was detected. My confidence is you have asked, researched, and engaged many professionals in your install. You have more than likely hardwired all the sensors and contacts in your system and installed the correct value EOL resistor to appropriate zones etc. Why?? Because you are more serious than the next guy who said a Walmart alarm is just as good? Better yet how about we step it up a notch and go buy the latest fad product called the Canary?!? What about any of those stupid cone shaped turds that sit on your counter and call it good? They are all so called burglary UL / cUL certified and must meet the same high standards as the rest, right?? Not in a million years would I ever think you would suggest, buy, or install a Walmart alarm system. Why?? Because at some point you had bare minimum to higher expectations than the rest. It didn't make you better than the next guy just that you were more serious about protecting your life, family, and property. The problem lies in the fact people are losing sight of the basics just like the Walmart guy, Amazon Guy, RPi Guy, Canary Guy. As you and many others know I am not hear to sell, shill, or promote any product when it comes to security. It's safe to say not one single person will find a thread in this forum where I say go buy X. That really is a personal choice like underwear - but people should really sit back and ask themselves. Why?? At the end of the day I and many others will have to agree to disagree . . . All I know is the five guys reading over my shoulders right now are just shaking their head in disbelief people believe its OK to let Alexa lock, unlock, arm, disarm, their systems.
apostolakisl Posted February 17, 2017 Posted February 17, 2017 Look, here is the deal. The answer was NO. NO. It wasn't anything else but NO.
Scottmichaelj Posted February 17, 2017 Posted February 17, 2017 Look, here is the deal. The answer was NO. NO. It wasn't anything else but NO. NOTHING will stop smash and grabs. Your not going to win the argument with people. #BeTheBiggerPerson #LetItGo - The rest of us understand your point and some even agree with you.
paulbates Posted February 17, 2017 Posted February 17, 2017 Who on the forum is being helped with what at this point in this thread? We're all individually capable of reading and deciding for ourselves. Please either walk away, or continue the bashing in a pm - if there somehow is still value in this discussion for you. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
elvisimprsntr Posted February 17, 2017 Posted February 17, 2017 (edited) I guess all these stories of insurance companies denying claims for lack of forced entry evidence are all "fake news." https://www.bing.com/search?q=insurance+claim+denied+no+forced+entry&form=APIPH1&PC=APPL I have nothing to worry about then. I'm going leave all my doors and windows unlocked and a huge "free stuff" sign in front. Great way to get insurance company to pay for "new stuff." Edited February 17, 2017 by elvisimprsntr
apostolakisl Posted February 17, 2017 Posted February 17, 2017 I guess all these stories of insurance companies denying claims for lack of forced entry evidence are all "fake news." https://www.bing.com/search?q=insurance+claim+denied+no+forced+entry&form=APIPH1&PC=APPL I have nothing to worry about then. I'm going leave all my doors and windows unlocked and a huge "free stuff" sign in front. Great way to get insurance company to pay for "new stuff." Actually, those do all look like fake news.
Teken Posted February 17, 2017 Posted February 17, 2017 Some of the sites may be obfuscating some information but it doesn't make it *Fake News*. There are insurance companies who state in writing that for a claim to be considered a *break in / burglary* it must happen via the front door. @Elvis: You can only lead the horse to water - you can't make it drink! When presented with empirical facts like remote control of ones GDO people will do what they like regardless of the consequences. Those with sound and reasonable minds can only offer the information for those to read, consume, and follow through. When people take the time like you to offer reference material or a counter to the opinion of others - You will just be labeled. I go into each forum thread that interest me - If I have views and personal information which I feel can benefit the collective I try to do so. You then have people who truly believe ganging up on another person is going to really silence the facts. LOL . . . It's comical to watch some of this unfold along with comments which offer no helpful information, facts, besides wasting bandwidth. Reading inbound PM's about how I have provided factual information along with how to do better while also offering examples to hit the point across is encouraging. As some of the long time members have stated to me *You can only help those who want to help themselves*. This is why I am here and this is why I take the time to relay the same. While there are others who bring absolutely nothing to the conversation besides trying to incite animosity and suppress common sense. I wish some of these PM's could be shared here because it would relay the total disgust for the childish behavior and antics of a few select few LOL. On a completely different tangent someone noted I have some kind of number with regards to *Likes*. I've never paid much attention to this number but they say its driven by good information being shared whether it be solutions, helpful advice, to offering counter views that help expand a topic. I guess 423 likes must indicate in a random way I, You, and others are offering positive contributions regardless of what others may say. I would encourage you to stand fast and offer information when and where and ignore the TROLLS, and those banding together that truly offer nothing. LOL - Let the games begin . . .
Michel Kohanim Posted February 17, 2017 Posted February 17, 2017 This topic is now locked. Please stay on topic.
Recommended Posts