SWL work as individual devices but often fail when in scenes

[Guest digitaltrader]

I am new to insteon and just installed a new system. I have about 20 Switchlincs (dimmers and relays) as well as 2 access points successfully paired in conjunction with an ISY-99i. I am able to reliably control each device individually, however when I create a scene with 4 or 5 switchlincs often 2 of them fail to respond. It seems to be the same devices that fail to respond, but they do successfully respond to individual device commands. These are the newer V.35 firmware devices. I am using the latest beta 2.6.13 ISY firmware.

 

I also have a TED energy detector installed and am unsure if that has any effect. Others have noted that it doesn't interfere.

 

Any suggestions?

[gregoryx]

By "individual commands" you mean sent from ISY?

 

A murti-device scene means each device contains a link to each other device. In an A-B-C-D-E scene, A must link to B, C, D, E; B must link to A, C, D, E; etc. Inability for two devices to talk to two others is often noise on the line and/or need to reposition the Access Points.

 

Or do I misunderstand?

[Guest digitaltrader]

Yes, I can send individual device commands from the ISY and the devie appropriately responds. When a send a scene command to turn on 5 lights at once only 3 of them urn on and the other 2 fail to do anything but show as responding correcty in the ISY. If I then send the individual device command via the ISY the devices appropriately respond.

 

Any suggestions?

[windrockwater]

Hello:

 

I too am having this same identical problem. That is, my lights respond individually to ISY commands but when i place those same lights in a 'scene', then there is one light in particular that does not seem to receive the ISY command (or respond to it). My current solution is to add another command to the scene that sends the ON/OFF command a second time to the problematic SWL and then it seems to work. Inelegant...

 

Pretty strange? Interested to hear any solutions.....

[gregoryx]

Is it possible / likely that the suspect device talks with the ISY fine, but NOT with other devices in the network?

 

If so, that is (probably / likely) either a bad device OR poor communication between THAT device and others. Does moving the Access Points make a difference? Or having other electronic stuff (including other lights) turned OFF make it better? If so, it's noise and filters and/or APs are the basic solutions.

 

Unless anyone's got a better angle on this...

[Sub-Routine]

That seems to be a common problem with the newest switches. You can try Restore Device on the switches, several users are reporting success with that.

 

Rand

[to_lighter]

Count me in as having the same problem.

 

I have a garage switch that is the primary switch controlling the garage light. The secondary switch (not connected to the load) is the A button on an 8 button KPL in the mudroom. These are set up in a 3-way scene, with both as controllers. This portion works perfectly. These two switches are also responders in another scene, which also controls the light outside of the garage. All of these switches work properly when clicked manually, but if I turn on/off the scene nothing usually happens. Rarely, one of the lights respond. If I go into the scene and select one of the switches, it will respond perfectly to ISY commands.

 

I tried restoring the switches. One odd thing, when the ISY was restoring the device it took a long time, and it seemed to be spending a lot of time adding the PLM to a long list of groups.

 

Restoring the PLM didn't help either.

 

Any ideas?

 

Cheers!

[ulrick65]

Rand is very correct of course and I have been able to duplicate this problem with certainty with a new Lamplinc I purchased last week. I have also seen this problem with a new v.35 SWL I installed over the weekend.

 

What I did to verify it was to look at the links table for the device in question and looked for either a duplicate entry (which I saw for the PLM) or I noticed that the link to the group # for the scene was missing.

 

Restoring the device did not help me. What I ended up doing was changing to I1 only mode (Link Management -> Advanced Options) and then restoring the device. I was able to produce the same result multiple times and every time, doing this corrected it. I then went back to Automatic mode and all was fine.

 

I did not try this on the SWL, but I can't see why it would hurt to try if restoring the device as Rand mentioned does not work.

 

Yes, I can send individual device commands from the ISY and the devie appropriately responds. When a send a scene command to turn on 5 lights at once only 3 of them urn on and the other 2 fail to do anything but show as responding correcty in the ISY. If I then send the individual device command via the ISY the devices appropriately respond.

 

Any suggestions?

[to_lighter]

Count me in as having the same problem.

 

I have a garage switch that is the primary switch controlling the garage light. The secondary switch (not connected to the load) is the A button on an 8 button KPL in the mudroom. These are set up in a 3-way scene, with both as controllers. This portion works perfectly. These two switches are also responders in another scene, which also controls the light outside of the garage. All of these switches work properly when clicked manually, but if I turn on/off the scene nothing usually happens. Rarely, one of the lights respond. If I go into the scene and select one of the switches, it will respond perfectly to ISY commands.

 

I tried restoring the switches. One odd thing, when the ISY was restoring the device it took a long time, and it seemed to be spending a lot of time adding the PLM to a long list of groups.

 

Restoring the PLM didn't help either.

 

Any ideas?

 

Cheers!

 

It occurred to me that perhaps the problem was the non-load button on the KPL that was causing the problem. Sure enough, if I removed the secondary controller for the 3-way setup for the garage light, and just left in the switch that is the primary (load) controller for the garage light, all works perfectly.

 

Strange ...

 

Now I have to add a line in the program to set the secondary controller off as well.

 

Cheers!

[ulrick65]

You lost me here. If you remove KPL button A from the scene, then all that is left is the SWL (which is the load controller) right? If so, then what do you mean about adding the seconday controller to the program? What program?

 

It occurred to me that perhaps the problem was the non-load button on the KPL that was causing the problem. Sure enough, if I removed the secondary controller for the 3-way setup for the garage light, and just left in the switch that is the primary (load) controller for the garage light, all works perfectly.

 

Strange ...

 

Now I have to add a line in the program to set the secondary controller off as well.

 

Cheers!

[Sub-Routine]

 

It occurred to me that perhaps the problem was the non-load button on the KPL that was causing the problem. Sure enough, if I removed the secondary controller for the 3-way setup for the garage light, and just left in the switch that is the primary (load) controller for the garage light, all works perfectly.

 

Strange ...

 

Now I have to add a line in the program to set the secondary controller off as well.

 

Cheers!

 

That's not right

 

Why not try Eric's suggestion and try i1 mode to create the links? 2.6.13 is an i2 beta and I'm sure the programmers are interested in the results.

 

Rand

[to_lighter]

You lost me here. If you remove KPL button A from the scene, then all that is left is the SWL (which is the load controller) right? If so, then what do you mean about adding the seconday controller to the program? What program?

 

It occurred to me that perhaps the problem was the non-load button on the KPL that was causing the problem. Sure enough, if I removed the secondary controller for the 3-way setup for the garage light, and just left in the switch that is the primary (load) controller for the garage light, all works perfectly.

 

Strange ...

 

Now I have to add a line in the program to set the secondary controller off as well.

 

Cheers!

 

If the scene contains only the primary controller (SWL) and the SWL for the second light it works fine. If I add the secondary controller (non-load button A on a KPL) to the scene, the scene does not work.

 

One problem with the ISY is how it manages 3-way controllers. If I turn ON the primary controller (SWL) using my ISY web interface, the secondary controller remains OFF (I had hoped it would automatically also turn ON). In order to prevent a mismatch between the switches in the 3-way group, I have to use a program to keep them in sync. This program responds to a different button on a KPL. Click this KPL button ON and the scene containing the primary SWL and the 2nd switch SWL is turned on. I then program a 5 second WAIT, and then I turn off the secondary controller. If the wait is shorter than 5 seconds, then the scene begins to work unreliably.

 

Cheers!

[ulrick65]

You should not have to do any of this. Is there a reason that you turn the device on from the web interface rather than the Scene?

 

I try never to work directly with devices, only with the scenes...that way they always stay in sync.

 

I wouldn't give up on KPL button A, it should work as a member of that scene and remain synced (unless it is defective of course).

 

You lost me here. If you remove KPL button A from the scene, then all that is left is the SWL (which is the load controller) right? If so, then what do you mean about adding the seconday controller to the program? What program?

 

It occurred to me that perhaps the problem was the non-load button on the KPL that was causing the problem. Sure enough, if I removed the secondary controller for the 3-way setup for the garage light, and just left in the switch that is the primary (load) controller for the garage light, all works perfectly.

 

Strange ...

 

Now I have to add a line in the program to set the secondary controller off as well.

 

Cheers!

 

If the scene contains only the primary controller (SWL) and the SWL for the second light it works fine. If I add the secondary controller (non-load button A on a KPL) to the scene, the scene does not work.

 

One problem with the ISY is how it manages 3-way controllers. If I turn ON the primary controller (SWL) using my ISY web interface, the secondary controller remains OFF (I had hoped it would automatically also turn ON). In order to prevent a mismatch between the switches in the 3-way group, I have to use a program to keep them in sync. This program responds to a different button on a KPL. Click this KPL button ON and the scene containing the primary SWL and the 2nd switch SWL is turned on. I then program a 5 second WAIT, and then I turn off the secondary controller. If the wait is shorter than 5 seconds, then the scene begins to work unreliably.

 

Cheers!

[to_lighter]

Hi Eric,

 

I only was using the web interface to try to sort out why the scene was not being triggered properly by its KPL button (a different button than the KPL button that is the secondary light controller for the garage light). I was just fiddling around when I realized that I couldn't even control the scene from within the web interface.

 

Cheers!

[ulrick65]

Ok.

 

I am not sure where you want to go from here...if you are content with how it is working or not.

 

One thing in your original question to note is that you mentioned it took a long time to restore the device. 8 button keypads can take a very long time to restore, because it has to create every link for every button on the keypad.

 

Hi Eric,

 

I only was using the web interface to try to sort out why the scene was not being triggered properly by its KPL button (a different button than the KPL button that is the secondary light controller for the garage light). I was just fiddling around when I realized that I couldn't even control the scene from within the web interface.

 

Cheers!

[Sub-Routine]

 

If the scene contains only the primary controller (SWL) and the SWL for the second light it works fine. If I add the secondary controller (non-load button A on a KPL) to the scene, the scene does not work.

 

One problem with the ISY is how it manages 3-way controllers. If I turn ON the primary controller (SWL) using my ISY web interface, the secondary controller remains OFF (I had hoped it would automatically also turn ON).

 

No, No, No. That is the way Insteon functions. If you want the secondary controller to follow the primary they must be in a scene together and you must call the scene On or Off. You could have many controllers for the same device, and each might call different scenes with other devices. You wouldn't want all the devices associated with all the controllers to turn on when you switch only one light on.

 

In order to prevent a mismatch between the switches in the 3-way group, I have to use a program to keep them in sync. This program responds to a different button on a KPL. Click this KPL button ON and the scene containing the primary SWL and the 2nd switch SWL is turned on. I then program a 5 second WAIT, and then I turn off the secondary controller. If the wait is shorter than 5 seconds, then the scene begins to work unreliably.

 

Cheers!

 

If the scene is failing a program could make up for it, but that's not the way it should work. You should be able to make a scene containing the primary, secondary, and KPL button. I don't understand the purpose of turning off the secondary controller.

 

Links like this are basic functions of Insteon. After the links are created you should be able to toss the ISY and the links will still function.

 

Try Eric's suggestion of using i1. Delete the scene and recreate it.

 

Rand

[to_lighter]

Hi Eric,

 

I only was using the web interface to try to sort out why the scene was not being triggered properly by its KPL button (a different button than the KPL button that is the secondary light controller for the garage light). I was just fiddling around when I realized that I couldn't even control the scene from within the web interface.

 

Cheers!

 

Just to be specific, the scene that controls the three-way action with the garage light works fine (primary switch is the SWL, secondary switch is button A on the KPL, both added as controllers). The scene that didn't work was the scene that included both of these switches, and another SWL controlling a different light (all added as responders). I didn't add a controller to the second scene, as I wanted to control it from a program, not just a button press.

 

Cheers!

[to_lighter]

Ok.

 

I am not sure where you want to go from here...if you are content with how it is working or not.

 

One thing in your original question to note is that you mentioned it took a long time to restore the device. 8 button keypads can take a very long time to restore, because it has to create every link for every button on the keypad.

 

Hi Eric,

 

I only was using the web interface to try to sort out why the scene was not being triggered properly by its KPL button (a different button than the KPL button that is the secondary light controller for the garage light). I was just fiddling around when I realized that I couldn't even control the scene from within the web interface.

 

Cheers!

 

Thanks Eric,

 

I am satisfied, as it works, and this may provide clues to anyone else who has similar difficulties. When the next beta comes out I'll try adding the secondary 3-way controller back into the scene, to see if it was an ISY communications issue that has since been sorted out.

 

Cheers!

[Sub-Routine]

 

Just to be specific, the scene that controls the three-way action with the garage light works fine (primary switch is the SWL, secondary switch is button A on the KPL, both added as controllers).

 

Oh good! Forget that scene then.

The best part of home automation is forgetting it

 

The scene that didn't work was the scene that included both of these switches, and another SWL controlling a different light (all added as responders). I didn't add a controller to the second scene, as I wanted to control it from a program, not just a button press.

 

Cheers!

 

Are you implying that the third switch doesn't have a load and is controlling yet a fourth device? Then simply include the fourth device in the scene.

 

All scenes can be called from programs (or through the ISY interface) no matter how many controllers they have.

 

Rand

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello all,

 

As these issues seem to be quite common amongst the latest SWLs and LLs and ALs, I would very much appreciate the following:

On each device, there are three labels:

-Address

-Firmware revision/data

-Lot number

 

If you can locate these numbers, please do forward them to me so that I can send them along to SmartHome. We are all very interested in resolving all these issues once and for all.

 

Also, I think Eric got lucky that i1 Only mode worked since, if you have a scene with a mixture of i1 and i2 devices, the i2 devices will NOT be programmed and you are going to have much stranger problems.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[ulrick65]

Hello all,

 

Also, I think Eric got lucky that i1 Only mode worked since, if you have a scene with a mixture of i1 and i2 devices, the i2 devices will NOT be programmed and you are going to have much stranger problems.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

This is a good point Michel and makes me think: It sure would be nice for somebody (SH?) to put out a list of I2 only devices, firmware, etc. or at least a list of the I2 only devices would help. I thought the new Lamplincs were I2 only...but my test proved otherwise. If I did it once, I would say fluke...but it was repeatable.

 

I know Motion Sensors are I2 only (at least that is what I have read on here) and so far I have setup two new motion sensors in the past week and they both work perfectly (in automatic mode of course).

[to_lighter]

Now I've got a new problem. My wife's bedside lamp (plugged into a Lamplink) stopped responding to commands from the bedside controller or from the wall (it is set up in a 3-way) or from the web interface (either by directly controlling the device or by adjusting the scenes in which it takes part).

 

I removed the Lamplink from all scenes, and suddenly I could control it again directly from the web interface. I've tried creating a new scene containing the lamp and one of its controllers, and it will respond to direct commands, but turning on or off the scene will not turn on or off the light. Needless to say, that means that the controllers don't turn on or off the light either.

 

Frustrating. When is the next beta coming?

 

Cheers

[to_lighter]

Now I've got a new problem. My wife's bedside lamp (plugged into a Lamplink) stopped responding to commands from the bedside controller or from the wall (it is set up in a 3-way) or from the web interface (either by directly controlling the device or by adjusting the scenes in which it takes part).

 

I removed the Lamplink from all scenes, and suddenly I could control it again directly from the web interface. I've tried creating a new scene containing the lamp and one of its controllers, and it will respond to direct commands, but turning on or off the scene will not turn on or off the light. Needless to say, that means that the controllers don't turn on or off the light either.

 

Frustrating. When is the next beta coming?

 

Cheers

 

Well, I fixed it. I removed the Lamplink from the ISY list, and then did a factory reset. I then re-added it to the ISY. I think that 3-way scenes are currently broken. The only way that the Lamplink will work is if I replicate a 3-way scene in programs instead. Adding the Lamplink into a 3-way scene means that other scenes can't control it.

 

Cheers!

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello to_lighter,

 

I am afraid you have one of those "interesting" lamplincs. These are known issues (LL creates a duplicate link records) which SH is working on. Have you requested for a replacement?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

Now I've got a new problem. My wife's bedside lamp (plugged into a Lamplink) stopped responding to commands from the bedside controller or from the wall (it is set up in a 3-way) or from the web interface (either by directly controlling the device or by adjusting the scenes in which it takes part).

 

I removed the Lamplink from all scenes, and suddenly I could control it again directly from the web interface. I've tried creating a new scene containing the lamp and one of its controllers, and it will respond to direct commands, but turning on or off the scene will not turn on or off the light. Needless to say, that means that the controllers don't turn on or off the light either.

 

Frustrating. When is the next beta coming?

 

Cheers

 

Well, I fixed it. I removed the Lamplink from the ISY list, and then did a factory reset. I then re-added it to the ISY. I think that 3-way scenes are currently broken. The only way that the Lamplink will work is if I replicate a 3-way scene in programs instead. Adding the Lamplink into a 3-way scene means that other scenes can't control it.

 

Cheers!

[to_lighter]

Hi Michel,

 

Is there a way to confirm that the lamplink is the problem?

 

Cheers!