Elk water shutoff valve and Insteon I/O linc

[peterlandis]

I am trying to figure out how to wire an Elk water shutoff valve to an Insteon I/O linc.

 

The Elk valve has 4 wires (black, red, white, and green).  The 12 Volt DC is also used to power the valve.  Now without a relay switch the Insteon I/O linc always shows on.  I use a relay switch from Radio Shack (OMR-C-112H) which actuates the position indicator because when the valve is closed it puts a 12 volt output on the green.

 

For the Elk valve:

 - Red (valve closed) is connected to the I/O Linc NC (normally closed)

 - White (valve open) is connected to the I/O Linc NO (normally open)

 - Black is the common connected to the I/O Linc COM

 

The green wire is where I get confused when connecting to the relay and the 12 Volt DC.  The green wire from the Elk valve is connected to one side of the relay coil.  The other I am unsure.  It's stated that this should be grounded.  Does that mean the other side of the coil is connected to the 12VDC Ground?  The relay switched wires (COM and N.O) are connected to the IO linc sensor input (S) and GND.

 

My last question is where does the 12 Volt DC positive and negative wires connect to?

 

There's a youtube link that shows the hookup but I am unable to find the wiring diagram.

 

I have attached an incomplete diagram (blue in the picture depicts the white wire).

Edited August 19, 2016 by peterlandis

[Brian H]

Your diagram is incorrect.

 

Connect the +12 volt power supply voltage to the IO Linc Relay Common.

Connect the -12 volt power supply to the Black wire on the valve and relay coil.

With the Red on the NC and White on NO the valve will be closed when the IO Linc is Off.

When the relay in the IO Linc is switched. The +12 volt power on the IO Linc relay common terminal is switched between open and closed valve inputs.

 

Indication of status.

Wire the Green from the valve to one of the relay coils terminals.

Wire the other relay coil terminal to the 12 volt common of the power supply. That is also connected to the Black Valve wire.

Then use the dry relay contacts of the relay. Wired to the Sensor and Common Inputs.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Brian H

[peterlandis]

So I drew up what you suggested.  Where I'm not following you is the dry relay contacts of the relay, one is connected to the sensor which I get but the other is connected to the common inputs?  Is the common inputs the COM of the Insteon I/O linc which is also connected to the +12 Volt from the power supply.  Attached is the diagram.

 

 

 

[G W]

Dang! That is one expensive valve.

 

Best regards,

Gary Funk

[Brian H]

Looks like you have the valve control part correct.

 

Move the Radio Shack relay NO connection to the GND connection next to the Sensor Input on the IO Linc. Leave the +12 volts supply where it is now.

 

That way when the Radio Shack relay is turned On and Off by the valves Status Signal. It turns the IO Linc Sensor Input On and Off.

Through the Radio Shack relays contacts.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Brian H

[peterlandis]

Maybe third try is a charm!  

 

Here's an updated diagram.  I'll post this on the youtube video as a response once I confirm this is correct and then POC this out.

[Brian H]

That looks correct.

The valve will Open when the IO Linc output is turned On and Close when the IO Linc output is Off.

The Sensor will be On when the valve is closed.

[Brian H]

Dang! That is one expensive valve.

 

Best regards,

Gary Funk

The ELK original WSV was quite expensive.

The improved model WSV2 is even more expensive. I guess the manual handle on the bottom made it more costly.

[giesen]

The OEM of the WSV (Greenfield) has an even better valve, the ASV100, that provides open/close status and is a bit cheaper (about $50 cheaper street price).

http://www.greenfielddirect.com/automatic-security-valves/order-asv-products/

 

It comes in a number of different sizes, and is even available in models for use with combustible gases (though they are $$$).

 

 

 

There's some more details in this thread: http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/12765-elk-wsv2-for-less/

 

Edit: Added details for Greenfield ASV

Edited August 19, 2016 by giesen

[peterlandis]

I was not aware of the Greenfield valve.  That already has the actuator relay built in.  Here's my question then on that valve:

 

The valve has the following wires:

 

-Red +12V

-Black -12V

-White + 12V Trigger

-Orange Feedback Closed

-Green Feedback Common

-Purple Feedback Open

 

Then the 12 V DC power

 

Is the wring correct to an Insteon I/O linc

-Red wire on the valve connects to the Power 12 VDC +12V Red wire

-Black wire on valve connects to the Power 12 VDC -12V Black wire

-Orange Feedback Closed wire connects to the Insteon - N/C

-Purple Feedback Open wire connects to the Insteon - N/O

-Green Wire connects to the Insteon Status

-White connects to the COM ??? <--- This I do not know

 

The 12 V DC +12V connects to the Red wire on the valve as discussed above

The 12 V DC -12V connects to both the Black wire on the valve and the Insteon - GND.

 

 

[MWareman]

Smarthome have valves that are *much* cheaper, and I have (a 1" one) hooked up to my Elk...

 

http://www.smarthome.com/smarthome-select-electronic-water-shutoff-valve-3-4-inch-12v-dc.html

 

http://www.smarthome.com/smarthome-select-electronic-water-shutoff-valve-1-inch-12v-dc.html

Edited August 19, 2016 by MWareman

[Brian H]

No completely different connections.

 

The feedback connections indicate open or closed. Not to be connected to the IO Linc NO and NC relay contacts. Maybe to turn the Sensor Input On and Off depending on valve open or closed.

 

+ 12 volts and - 12 volts are always powering the valve.

 

Putting a +12 volt signal on the White Trigger wire opens the valve.

Removing the +12 volt trigger should close the valve.

Depending on if you want the IO Linc to open or close the valve when On. Would determine if you used the NC or NO output to control the valves +12 volt trigger signal.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Brian H

[peterlandis]

The orange wire tells the status when the valve is closed.  So when it's closed it'll send a 12 V signal to the status input of the I/O indicating the status is on. When it's not closed it will not send a 12 V signal to the Status input indicating that the status input is not on.

 

The purple wire would not be needed then.

 

The Green wire is feedback common.  Not sure where this goes.

 

I attached another diagram but this time for the Greenfield Valve

 

 

Edited August 19, 2016 by peterlandis

[Brian H]

For the GreenField ASV
Red and Black from the PS100 power supply to the valve.
Red from the PS100 also to the IO Linc COM Relay Output Contact.
White from valve to NO of the IO Linc for the valve to open when the IO Linc is turned On
White from valve to NC of the IO Linc for the valve to close when the IO Linc is turned On.
Green Feedback Common from valve to the IO Linc GND terminal next to the Sensor Input.
Orange to the Sensor Input if you want the sensor On when the valve is closed.
Purple to the sensor Input if you want the sensor on when the valve is open.
Insulate the unused feedback wire so it can't touch any other connections.

 

[peterlandis]

I would have thought that the valve function is when you connect just a power supply directly to the valve by connecting the +12V to the white wire and the -12V to the black wire the valve would open.  And if you connected the +12V to the red wire and the -12V to the black valve wire it would close the valve. 

 

Based on that logic I would have thought the valve functionality connected to an Insteon I/O would work as follows:

-the White valve wire opens the valve connecting to the N/C

-the Red valve wire closes the valve connects to the N/O.

-The Power supply +12V would connect to the Insteon Common.

-The Power supply -12V would connect to the black wire.

-The Orange is used purely for status which would connect to the Insteon Status.

- The Purple would be capped off.

-The green is feedback for both on/off which I'm not sure is used.

 

For what you are suggesting, why does the the white valve wire connect to both the N/C and the N/O?

 

Attached is the wiring diagram doesn't make sense.

 

By the way thanks for the help.  This forum has been a huge help.  I want to thank everyone here on responding!  

Edited August 20, 2016 by peterlandis

[peterlandis]

Looking at the greenfield wire diagram as I posted earlier, it shows that the white valve wire is a +12V trigger. So this valve wiring behaves a little differently. So from what I am trying to understand the functionality it appears that the white valve wire when powered opens and closes the valve as to having 2 separate wires. I'm still not sure why the green wire which is feedback common need to be connected to ground?

[Brian H]

Yes the White Trigger wire connected to +12 volts the valve opens.

When the White Trigger wire is removed from the +12 volts it closes.

The valve is always powered by the +12 volt Red and -12 volt Black.

The Green Feedback Common connection is for both the Orange NC and Purple NO signals.

Ground on the IO Linc is used for the Sensor Input signal. If the Green Feedback Common is not connected to the IO Linc Ground. The Orange NC or Purple NO signals from the valve will not be seen.

 

What may have not been clear. Is the IO LInc Ground for the Sensor Input and +5 volt output. Are not connected to the IO Linc output relay Common terminal.

 

I was looking at the ASV Connection diagram.
The Feedback signals are in reference to a security systems zone connection being used.
In the normal valve open position. Status Normal.
The Orange NC to Green Feedback Common maybe closed.
The Purple NO to Green Feedback Common maybe open.
When used with an IO Linc Sensor Input. You may have pick either Purple or Orange to get the results
you want to see.
 

[peterlandis]

I'm returning the Elk valve as I don't want to have to solder a relay switch when the Greenfield valve already has this built in. Less chances of things failing. Once I get the Greenfield valve I'll test it out with the above wiring and provide feedback to this post. Thanks!

[Brian H]

Sounds like a good way to go.

[peterlandis]

I ended up purchasing the Greenfield ASVCOA Clamp On Actuator which has the same actuator as the inline versions with the same wiring.  I wired it based on what was recommended in this post but that did not work out.  After searching the greenfield site I came across the wire diagram for a Z-Wave module which is very similar as the Insteon I/O linc.

 

The wiring of the Valve to the Insteon I/O linc was as

 

• White valve wire connected to the Insteon N/C
• Black valve wire connected to the -12V Power Supply
• Red valve wire connected to the Insteon COM and the +12V Power Supply
• Orange valve wire connected to the Insteon Sensor (S)
• Green valve wire connected to the Insteon Ground (GND)
• Purple valve wire is capped off.

 

I attached the wiring diagram that I drew that worked and also the Greenfield Z-Wave diagram that I used as a reference.  I then tested it and it works great.  I setup an Insteon scene to activate when the Water Heater Insteon sensor is triggered and it closes the valve alerting me where the leak occurred and that the water main valve is closed.  Feel free to ask me any questions.

[Brian H]

Thank you for the update.

Glad it is working for you.

[bw23198]

I would like to add one of these to my house as well but I wanted to get some opinions first. I have an Elk M1 and an ISY 994 with the Elk module.  I am thinking of purchasing some Insteon Water Leak sensors to place throughout my house to detect water leaks.  So my question is, would it be better to connect the Greenfield cutoff valve to an Instion I/O module or to the Elk?  (I'm thinking the logic to control the valve would come from my ISY since it has direct communication with the Insteon Water Leak sensors).  If it would be better for me to connect the Grenfield to the Elk, would it make more sense to buy the Elk version of the valve?  I realize there's probably different ways of doing this but I just wanted to get some feedback.

-Brian

[apostolakisl]

A hardwired connection to your Elk is pretty fail safe.  Insteon communications are not nearly as reliable.  Of course if you are using Insteon water detectors you still have comm issue potential there.

 

There is no special compatibility regarding and Elk valve used with an Elk relay vs some other brand.  ElkWSV needs a single pole double throw relay (normally open and normally closed connections).  Other brands probably have the same requirement. 

 

I have my elk wsv wired to my elk panel and have the water turn off 30 minutes after the system is armed to away mode, plus I have hard wired water detectors throughout the house.  I also have one at my office that works the same, except it shuts the water off immediately since my office alarm system isn't smart enough to have options like wait 30 minutes.

[MWareman]

In my case, I have a Smarthomes brand water valve currently connected to an IOLinc - only because I didn't have any more outputs on my Elk.

 

Since then, I've purchased an output expansion for my Elk. I've not installed it yet - but my plan is to move the valve over to it. There is no need to use the Elk specific valves - they are very overpriced IMO.

 

Reliability is very important in this particular system. I have water sensors in some key places hooked as non-alarm zones on the Elk, so my logic is going to be entirely on the Elk once I've completed the move of the valve.

 

I just don't trust Insteon for this system, just like I don't trust it for my garage door... (Which is also connected only to my Elk).

 

Michael.

[DennisC]

I totally agree with the advice you have been given so far. My water shut valve is wired to my Elk M1 and I have deployed hard wired leak sensors also wired to the Elk system.

 

You can not be too careful with critical systems.