Scene Control aka Manage a Scene

[larryllix]

I am not sure how to reply to this, you are correct I think , When you say "insteon scenes" do you mean ISY Scenes? or Insteon Scenes? They don't have to be the same thing.

 

Yes the ISY has made it simpler, but YES the ISY could set scene levels very easily without a controller by acting as the controller. How hard would it be to add random false addresses to the ISY so it can be a controller and therefore set commanded scene levels. Now I can have a program trigger a scene without needing another controller in the system.

 

That is my request. Probably won't happen.

 

I mean Insteon scenes. ISY does not have "scenes'. ISY has programs that can set many items to different levels within that program.

 

An Insteon Scene is a preset, of light level and ramp speed, that can be managed by ISY (or done at the device) and stuffed into each device for easy usage later.

When ISY (it can be the controller) or another Insteon device calls out that "Scene Number", all devices, containing that "Scene Number" assume their preset conditions. There is no exceptions of maybe in Insteon scenes.

 

This is analogous to programming the station buttons on your car radio. When you push the button the radio jumps to your previous programmed selection. Now it sounds like you want to push the button and have it go to the station beside it but when the passenger pushes the preset it should go to another station, instead. It's either a preset or it isn't.

 

Something isn't clear in your request. It either needs another angle of explanation, cannot be done, or Insteon scenes are misundertood.

 

We are trying to understand your request, but it isn't making sense yet, and can be very abstract, ...to me anyway.

 

All the best!

[CoolToys]

UPDATE and Close to my question/concern.

 

It turns out I overloaded my ISY.  I did not have a "pro" module and when I added the four new devices and associated links, the ISY ran out of links (300 max, Pro can go to 1000).  

 

UDI/Insteon support called me and was outstanding.  

 

After upgrading to Pro, the system went back to working as I expected, although I will still have to manually remove and add devices to the scenes that do not show the devices in the bottom right corner in order to re-establish the links correctly, this is a welcome and easy correction.  

 

If you have a scene with no devices in the bottom right corner and several on the list, upgrade to pro, best $30 you will ever spend.  

 

The system reconfiguration is now 90% complete, and tonight I will test the reliability and remove some of the crazy big programs I built as a work around.

 

As I said several times, I thought this worked before.  It turns out it did.  My ISY just hit the wall since my system outgrew the basic version.

 

Thank you everyone for trying to understand this and help out.

 

To clarify,

 

Yes, a scene on the ISY can and should be able to set each device to a preset level separate from the device and other scenes with the same device.  You ALL were right.

 

My statements above to the contrary were an incorrect understanding of responses here and tech support email response.  My system was not doing this since I maxed out the links.  Hence the reason everyone thought I was stupid or crazy (I hope ).

 

My system did work this way in the past, and it just happened that the upgrade to 4.5.4 occurred simultaneously with the addition of four more devices which caused the links to exceed 300.  

 

Happy Black Friday!

[paulbates]

These systems are complex, and arbitrary limits can cause problems sometimes for sure. The good news, as you point out, is that UDI sets the gold standard for taking care of their customers and got you going.

 

Glad you are working and thanks for following up.

 

Paul 

 

 

My system did work this way in the past, and it just happened that the upgrade to 4.5.4 occurred simultaneously with the addition of four more devices which caused the links to exceed 300. 

[G W]

 

 

Hence the reason everyone thought I was stupid or crazy (I hope ).

 

Happy Black Friday!

We all suffer from being crazy stupid or stupidly crazy at times; some more than others, some less than others.

 

We're all happy when it turns out to be something simple and we learn.

 

 

 

I'm Gary Funk. Pay no attention to this message.

[oberkc]

KC10Brain

 

I, too, am wondering whether I understood your request. Based on our conversation so far, it seemed as if your ISY works different than mine, and I gues we now know why. I could not understand, for example, why you could not create a scene without any defined controller and set responder levels for included devices.

 

Glad it is working now.

[lilyoyo1]

The ISY does exactly what you tell it to. It can be as simple or as complicated as you want it to be. While some may wish it were simpler, many more would then pass over it due to limitations that they do not want.

 

If you are getting inconsistent results, I would verify how your scenes are set up. For me, being able to have different results from 2 controllers is a good thing. As it allows me to set different parameters without unnecessary scenes. For example, I have 2 bedroom lamps. Each bedside remote controls each lamp individually. Turning on the lamps from my wall keypad turns both on 100%. However doing it from the remotes will turn my lamps on at 65% as I'm more likely to be in bed relaxing and not wanting it as high. Each device is part of the same scene. To me that is muh easier than having to create separate scenes for such a simple task

[larryllix]

Preset scenes make responses much faster than a program trying to set up parameters before launching results with a comm protocol that becomes too slow when too many things are attempted in a short time frame.

 

I am not a big Insteon scene user, but I do use them for fast responses, where ISY programs and comms in amd out of ISY, take, what seems like an eternity at times.

 

eg. You take your first step down the staircase and your MS sees your motion. You can be half way down the staircase before the light goes on, maybe rolling on your shoulder.

 

Why would somebody avoid Insteon Scenes, the technique that made Insteon devices so impressive? I like the control that straight ISY programming gives, but some things are just too slow that way.

[stusviews]

The only reason to use a program is when a condition must be met or when issuing voice commands that can't be accomplished with a scene. Or you're a noob

[CoolToys]

Or you run it out of links...

[larryllix]

Or you run it out of links...

Not likely. Most Insteon devices can hold more than 250 links. There is no shortage of sausages.

 

Not sure about ISY but not likely there either with Gigabytes of storage.

[CoolToys]

Thank you for making my point. What happens if you turn on both, jump into bed and want to turn off both or one side? What If UDI allowed the two bed buttons to be controller only?

[larryllix]

Thank you for making my point. What happens if you turn on both, jump into bed and want to turn off both or one side? What If UDI allowed the two bed buttons to be controller only?

The mini-remotes are only controllers anyway.

 

I use two switchlincs to control my deck and porch lights. One click turn on/off only it's connected lights and a double click turns on/off both sets of lights.

 

This is all done by programs as I don't care if there is a slight delay on outside lights.

[CoolToys]

If you read my follow up, that is exactly what I did. After upgrading to Pro and getting 1000 links my system went back to normal. It was a coincidence that I added four devices at the same time I upgraded to 4.5.4.

 

I have a large system.

 

The 20 year noob

[larryllix]

If you read my follow up, that is exactly what I did. After upgrading to Pro and getting 1000 links my system went back to normal. It was a coincidence that I added four devices at the same time I upgraded to 4.5.4.

I have a large system.

The 20 year noob

1000 programs/program folders.

 

You can have 1000 programs and only 4 links and vice versa.

 

ISY Pro doesn't change the eprom storage in your devices or PLM.

[stusviews]

Thank you for making my point. What happens if you turn on both, jump into bed and want to turn off both or one side?

 

Maybe I'm missing the point, but I can jump into bed and turn one or both table lamps off (or on).

 

What If UDI allowed the two bed buttons to be controller only?

 

If that were allowed, then it would be a problem. But that doesn't exist. You may as well pose, "what if UDI allowed two buttons to be responders only." In the first case, nothing could respond, in the latter case, nothing could control.

 

The are, however, Insteon devices that are inherently controllers only (e.g., MS, door sensors) or responders only (e.g., Insteon bulbs).

[CoolToys]

Large system with 300+ links.

 

Only a dozen short programs, two dozen switch groupings (3 and 4 way), 5 main scenes, and 3 automated event scenes. Complete energy management.

 

Every switch in the house, Integrated security, video, multi zone AC, w insteon thermostats, energy and Mobilinc modules. It all takes links.

 

All worked great for past 5 years, hit 301 links and..... well you know we've been talking about it for a week or so

[CoolToys]

Maybe I'm missing the point, but I can jump into bed and turn one or both table lamps off (or on).

 

 

If that were allowed, then it would be a problem. But that doesn't exist. You may as well pose, "what if UDI allowed two buttons to be responders only." In the first case, nothing could respond, in the latter case, nothing could control.

 

The are, however, Insteon devices that are inherently controllers only (e.g., MS, door sensors) or responders only (e.g., Insteon bulbs).

[CoolToys]

So that said, what happens when main button on?

 

1. Both lights to 100% and?

2. What happens to the two bedside switches? So they indicate on?

 

Then what happens when you climb in bed and press a button by the bed?

Do they both go off or just one?

Two presses turn both off?

 

We just see the problem differently.

[G W]

I have two bedside lamps controlled by 4 keypads. It's not a problem.

 

Also, 300 links isn't a large system. There is a reason most of us are on the Pro version.

 

I'm Gary Funk. Pay no attention to this message.

[stusviews]

So that said, what happens when main button on?

 

1. Both lights to 100% and?

2. What happens to the two bedside switches? So they indicate on?

 

Then what happens when you climb in bed and press a button by the bed?

Do they both go off or just one?

Two presses turn both off?

 

We just see the problem differently.

 

I'll arbitrarily name the buttons B (Both lights), L (Left light) and R (Right light).

 

What do you want to happen? There only so many possibilities, four to be exact: 1) all buttons (and corresponding loads) can be off, 2) all buttons can be on, 3) L is on, B and R is off, 4) R is on, B and L is off. Specify one (or more) of those conditions and what you would like to occur that you are unable to accomplish.

 

For example:

Condition: B is on (B button is lit as is R and L buttons) and I want to turn off only R.

Result: R is unlit, load turns off, L button remains lit. B button is unlit.