How to add relays to ISY

[apostolakisl]

I accidentally came across this on ebay

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SainSmart-Web-TCP-IP-10A-Relay-Remote-Control-Kit-with-Network-Web-Server-16-/262734678764?hash=item3d2c350aec:g:bQ8AAOSwImRYOLx1

 

16 relay board with an IP interface.  I would expect that with the network module you would be able to control these relays with ISY avoiding Insteon issues and getting a nearly instant response.  I haven't actually tried this, but you certainly aren't going to find a cheaper way to have 16 relays run by ISY.

[Teken]

I accidentally came across this on ebay

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SainSmart-Web-TCP-IP-10A-Relay-Remote-Control-Kit-with-Network-Web-Server-16-/262734678764?hash=item3d2c350aec:g:bQ8AAOSwImRYOLx1

 

16 relay board with an IP interface.  I would expect that with the network module you would be able to control these relays with ISY avoiding Insteon issues and getting a nearly instant response.  I haven't actually tried this, but you certainly aren't going to find a cheaper way to have 16 relays run by ISY.

 

Great find but am curious about the hardware details which are pretty thin. I'm not asking you to answer just the questions bouncing around in my head. 

 

- Does each relay support 10 amps vs splitting the total between all 16?

- What are the relays supporting 3, 5, 12, 24, 120 VAC / DC?

- Assuming this product had no controller like the ISY Series Controller does it offer timed latching?

- Can it be set to be N.O vs N.C?

- What does this product use for a power supply and if external whats supposed to be?

[larryllix]

Very nice find!

 

No mention of contact rating or any API to work with. From the description it may be implying there is ways to direct control the relays but not directly stated, from what I can tell. It serves a webpage and that may have to to be monitored to develop your own.

 

Nice to have terminals for real-world wiring.

 

Nice price but no shipping to Canada.

[apostolakisl]

Great find but am curious about the hardware details which are pretty thin. I'm not asking you to answer just the questions bouncing around in my head. 

 

- Does each relay support 10 amps vs splitting the total between all 16?

- What are the relays supporting 3, 5, 12, 24, 120 VAC / DC?

- Assuming this product had no controller like the ISY Series Controller does it offer timed latching?

- Can it be set to be N.O vs N.C?

- What does this product use for a power supply and if external whats supposed to be?

Based on the photos of the relays, which appear to be the same as relays I have on other things, as well as the screw terminals, they are spdt (both normally open and normally closed options, and are 10amp each. 

[DennisC]

Very nice find!

No mention of contact rating or any API to work with. From the description it may be implying there is ways to direct control the relays but not directly stated, from what I can tell. It serves a webpage and that may have to to be monitored to develop your own.

Nice to have terminals for real-world wiring.

Nice price but no shipping to Canada.

I don't think there is going to be an API. You are sending 00 for off and 01 for on to the relays IP address. That's all the control you are going to have.

 

Go to this page - https://www.amazon.com/SainSmart-Channels-Controller-Compatible-Connected/dp/B00NBGGCHK and head to the bottom of the page for some Q&A.

 

Dennis

[larryllix]

I don't think there is going to be an API. You are sending 00 for off and 01 for on to the relays IP address. That's all the control you are going to have.

Go to this page - https://www.amazon.com/SainSmart-Channels-Controller-Compatible-Connected/dp/B00NBGGCHK and head to the bottom of the page for some Q&A.

Dennis

Yeah, the guys states there is no API and it can only be operated through it's webpage. later he says it is possible but will not release the source for his python code.

 

It should be easy enough to view the source of the webpage generated to discover the API to control the relays via http URL calls.

[Brian H]

I went to the manufacturers web site.

After looking at the Ebay sale information and comparing to their web site.

It looks like this is the interface board.

http://www.sainsmart.com/relay-1/sainsmart-network-web-server-16-channels-relay-ethernet-controller-module-remote-control-board-lan-wan-web-server-rj45-port-control-under-wifi-connected-network.html

 

This is the kit with interface board and relay board.

http://www.sainsmart.com/sainsmart-ethernet-control-module-lan-wan-web-server-rj45-16-chs-relay.html

 

The network commands are shown on the pages.

Edited January 10, 2017 by Brian H

[apostolakisl]

I actually pulled out the relay boards with those same songle relays.  They are 10a 120vac rated NO/NC.

 

It would seem that the relay board and the webcontrol board are 2 separate pieces.  The webcontrol board is less liked than the relay board as I read comments.

 

Looks like you should be able to control with ISY network module simply sending http commands.  

 

Example:

http://192.168.1.4/30000/00 turns relay 1 off.

http://192.168.1.4/30000/01 turns relay 1 on.

 

So you have to divide by 2 since the relays get consecutively numbered with 2 commands per relay.

 

And it looks like you need 12v to power the relay board and 5v to power the web board.  The 12v part is pretty much 100% correct as I have similar boards and I know for a fact the relay coils use 12v

Edited January 10, 2017 by apostolakisl

[jtara92101]

Spec sheet on the relays:

 

    http://rabbitmax.com/files/SONGLE-SRD-05VDC-SL-C.pdf

 

Mechanical relays will always be rated "each". It is just opening and closing a mechanical contact.

 

Any voltage UP TO 120V. (Actually, says 250AC/110DC)

 

Note that the ampere rating is derated at lower voltages. 7A@28V. No specs are provided below 28V. (The Form C versions get derated, and that is the version on this board. Form-C is break-before-make.)

Edited January 10, 2017 by jtara92101

[kck]

For folks with Pis and the like there are a variety of other similar relay boards in configurations from 1 relay to 16 and where the relays operate on 5v (good for Pi GPIOs) as well as 12v available from ebay sellers and also on Banggood.com (a good Chinese source that if nothing else is worth browsing since they sell everything from relays to lingerie ).  I use a couple of the 5v relays on one of my Pis to allow for automated reboot/power cycling of my router and/or cable modem if I appear to lose network connectivity for a while.  The 5v relays can be driven really easily from one of the Pi GPIO pins.  I also use one of these to remotely power on/off my 3d printer so that it turns off and fails off if I forget it or there is a power outage.

[Teken]

I actually pulled out the relay boards with those same songle relays.  They are 10a 120vac rated NO/NC.

 

It would seem that the relay board and the webcontrol board are 2 separate pieces.  The webcontrol board is less liked than the relay board as I read comments.

 

Looks like you should be able to control with ISY network module simply sending http commands.  

 

Example:

http://192.168.1.4/30000/00 turns relay 1 off.

http://192.168.1.4/30000/01 turns relay 1 on.

 

So you have to divide by 2 since the relays get consecutively numbered with 2 commands per relay.

 

And it looks like you need 12v to power the relay board and 5v to power the web board.  The 12v part is pretty much 100% correct as I have similar boards and I know for a fact the relay coils use 12v

 

 

Spec sheet on the relays:

 

    http://rabbitmax.com/files/SONGLE-SRD-05VDC-SL-C.pdf

 

Mechanical relays will always be rated "each". It is just opening and closing a mechanical contact.

 

Any voltage UP TO 120V. (Actually, says 250AC/110DC)

 

Note that the ampere rating is derated at lower voltages. 7A@28V. No specs are provided below 28V. (The Form C versions get derated, and that is the version on this board. Form-C is break-before-make.)

 

 

I went to the manufacturers web site.

After looking at the Ebay sale information and comparing to their web site.

It looks like this is the interface board.

http://www.sainsmart.com/relay-1/sainsmart-network-web-server-16-channels-relay-ethernet-controller-module-remote-control-board-lan-wan-web-server-rj45-port-control-under-wifi-connected-network.html

 

This is the kit with interface board and relay board.

http://www.sainsmart.com/sainsmart-ethernet-control-module-lan-wan-web-server-rj45-16-chs-relay.html

 

The network commands are shown on the pages.

 

Thank you all for the great insight, sleuthing, and detective work. Does anyone have immediate needs for such a product? Would this be a good dry contact replacement of the Smartinet / Insteon I/O Linc?

Edited January 10, 2017 by Teken

[larryllix]

Spec sheet on the relays:

 

    http://rabbitmax.com/files/SONGLE-SRD-05VDC-SL-C.pdf

 

Mechanical relays will always be rated "each". It is just opening and closing a mechanical contact.

 

Any voltage UP TO 120V. (Actually, says 250AC/110DC)

 

Note that the ampere rating is derated at lower voltages. 7A@28V. No specs are provided below 28V. (The Form C versions get derated, and that is the version on this board. Form-C is break-before-make.)

The lower currents are for breaking DC currents.

Contacts dont like to break DC currents as they tend to keep arcing forever and burn them off.

 

As the contact opens the current arcs and ionises the air between them, causing it to be a conductor. As the contact gap widens, more air is ionised and the arcing tends to never stop. With AC currents there is a break in current flow every 1/120th of a second.

 

Many DC rated contacts will have a snuffer magnet close to the contact opening that attracts the arc electrons, elongating the arc until it breaks.

 

With relays high voltage DC is usually 120vdc. 24-28vdc being normal and usually similar ratings to 120/240vac contacts. 250vac is a class for insulation capablilities.

[Dethpickle]

If you're looking for something like those relays on eBay but want something pretty rock solid, I can recommend these: http://www.digital-loggers.com/din.html

 

I'll caution you on the link... they made the bad choice to have a video auto-play on it.  I know that aggravates me, but their product is great.

 

I have two of these that I initially used with the network module to control my sprinklers as well as pool/spa pump, heater and valves.  I went that way after reading all the complaints about the insteon devices only lasting a season and being very heat sensitive.  Though this module isn't cheap, it seems built like a tank.

 

You can power the device off of just about anything and run each individual relay however you want.  I happen to be running all of mine off 24VAC, so a lot of bridging where a power relay could have saved me some connections.

 

I'll be the first to admit that I probably overcomplicated how I did this, but I had a lot of fun doing it.  I'm sure I'm not the only here guilty of that.

 

 

The one on the left runs two pool valves (in and out mixing the pool and spa), controls three speeds on the pool pump (off, low and high) and can turn the pool heater on and off by triggering a remote 24/110 relay to kick it on.  They're all powered by the 24vac I'm pulling off the AC at the bottom - just a normal Hunter sprinkler power supply.  The units draw next to nothing and don't have many relays closed at once anyway.

 

The one on the right is all sprinklers.  It's basically a straight drop-in replacement for the Rainbird that was outside.  The distribution block in the middle right basically runs out to where the old sprinkler timer was; there is another block there and that wires in place of it.  It's plugged into my local network with a local network address.  My ISY can talk to it with the network module and Home Assistant can do the same.

 

 

Since combining my ISY with Home Assistant, I've taken most of the day to day control off of the ISY and put it on HA.  I like the web interface and I contributed a platform module for HA that makes that brand of relays just show up in HA like normal switches.  It makes it easy to make scenes and scripts - not that it's all that hard on ISY.  Just that it's never been very Mac friendly.  I'm thinking I'll be one of those liking the 5.x when it's less experimental.  The ISY is great control, but not what I'm looking for in interface.

 

 

 

[Jay]

I use a DLI DIN relay as well for lawn irrigation. It is bullet proof. I haven't done much with integration with the ISY though. I've set up variables to track and control each zone but until I brave programming for weather with a weather module. I use the built in scripting with the relay.

 

Xathros is who originally posted about it a while back and got me looking to integrate one. A planned vacation to Cali a couple years ago made importing it into Canada easy since shipping was a no go.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[larryllix]

People tend to forget about the case, powers supply and termination facilities that are necessary to actually make use of peripheral devices, The unit you mention Xathros discovered has most of that in place and a troubleshooting screen included.

 

This is similar to the cheap RPi for $30 that always end up costing more like $100 by the time it becomes actually usable, in situ.

[apostolakisl]

 I built an 8 outlet controller, but this thing would be easier.  I wrote it up in here a while ago.  I used a 4 gang electric box, 4 duplex receptacles with the tab that ties the two outlets together broken off, and wired each outlet to one relay each.  Then I used my CAI webcontrol board to control the 8 relays.  I had to use a relay board with the opto-isolated deal that only draws minimal current since cai can't power the 30mA or so that relays pull.

 

Anyway, I wrote code on the CAI itself that controls the 8 outlets.  The purpose is to turn on the outlets on a schedule with each one having an external hard drive attached.  This was for running backups, one for each day of the week, with the hard drives powered off while not doing a backup.

 

I could have also used the ISY network module to turn the CAI outputs on/off (and thus the relays) if I had wanted.  Comparing what I did to the controller I started off this thread with.  16 vs 8 relays, cheaper (less then 1/2 the price per relay), only controllable externally (web) vs either local programming or external.