larryllix Posted February 10, 2017 Posted February 10, 2017 (edited) Hi everyone, this is a very exciting topic. I'm a bit confused however on the architecture of how this works. As I understand it, you buy the tags, which have sensors built in and the reed sensor seems to be an open/close door sensor. You also need to buy a tag manager. The Kumo manager is: https://wirelesstags.myshopify.com/products/ethernet-tag-manager My question is how do you integrate these tags into your ISY environment? It seems a closed system. Do you have to use ITTT via the portal extension for ISY? Is there a native means by which tag messages can be directly captured? Thanks. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk No batteries required. Check the other thread for details You have to drop some code into the kumoapp website and modify to match your isy variables you set up. That's the easiest way. It will self prompt and save your isy credentials for you automatically. Sent from a tiny keyboard. Response may be brief. Edited February 10, 2017 by larryllix
smokegrub Posted February 10, 2017 Author Posted February 10, 2017 Finally discovered what was wrong. The Wireless Sensor Tag (with temperature) has only a quantity option. The temperature/humidity tag has the waterproof option!!!! If I had hair I would have pulled it out by now! 2
nwchicago Posted February 19, 2017 Posted February 19, 2017 No batteries required. Check the other thread for details You have to drop some code into the kumoapp website and modify to match your isy variables you set up. That's the easiest way. It will self prompt and save your isy credentials for you automatically. Sent from a tiny keyboard. Response may be brief. Do I need to install the tag manager as well (https://wirelesstags...net-tag-manager). Thanks.
MWareman Posted February 19, 2017 Posted February 19, 2017 Do I need to install the tag manager as well (https://wirelesstags...net-tag-manager). Thanks. The tag manager is needed to receive the wireless signal from the tags, and relay it to the cloud service. The Kumoapp server generated the rest call, and sends it to the tag manager to send to ISY. So, yes. The Tag Manager is an assent ISP part of the system. In my case, my experiment is not working. Even though I only have about 12' between my tag manager and tag, when the tag is in the mailbox I am unable to communicate with it...
Teken Posted February 19, 2017 Posted February 19, 2017 The tag manager is needed to receive the wireless signal from the tags, and relay it to the cloud service. The Kumoapp server generated the rest call, and sends it to the tag manager to send to ISY. So, yes. The Tag Manager is an assent ISP part of the system. In my case, my experiment is not working. Even though I only have about 12' between my tag manager and tag, when the tag is in the mailbox I am unable to communicate with it... Michael, Is this the Pro version or the standard version of the tag? I understood one or two members were seeing much longer distances and had no issues with placing the same into metal enclosed appliances like fridge / freezers? What is the distance of the mail box from the tag manager?
MWareman Posted February 19, 2017 Posted February 19, 2017 Michael, Is this the Pro version or the standard version of the tag? I understood one or two members were seeing much longer distances and had no issues with placing the same into metal enclosed appliances like fridge / freezers? What is the distance of the mail box from the tag manager? It's a PRO tag. I have no issues with the standard tags inside the fridge and freezer - both are further away from the tag manager even. I have two other new tags that I'm going to attach to my gates. They are also further away, so I'll see how they go. The mailbox tag only appears to work when it's separate from the mailbox - even just being attached to the door with Velcro seems to kill connectivity...
Teken Posted February 19, 2017 Posted February 19, 2017 Does the tag not have a method to insert wires like the Insteon open close sensor? I gather not otherwise you would have left the unit affixed outside and simply wired a simple contact magnet. I also understood this device can adjust the power output have you increased the levels to see? ========================= The highest calling in life is to serve ones country faithfully - Teach others what can be. Do what is right and not what is popular.
MWareman Posted February 19, 2017 Posted February 19, 2017 Does the tag not have a method to insert wires like the Insteon open close sensor? I gather not otherwise you would have left the unit affixed outside and simply wired a simple contact magnet. I also understood this device can adjust the power output have you increased the levels to see? ========================= The highest calling in life is to serve ones country faithfully - Teach others what can be. Do what is right and not what is popular. It's accelerometer and gyro based sensor - not a magnetic, reed or other mechanical tilt sensor. There does not appear to be a place to connect anything, but the do have an alternate product that does use a magnet the may work. I'll have to pick one up to see... As far as power output - there does not appear to be a way to set it - but there is a way to test what it's doing. The tags will lower their transmit level until the tag manager does not hear them anymore, then raise it again. Looking at the graphing a the tag is at max power, and the manager simply cannot hear it. However, when the mailbox is closed the manager can send to the tag (it beeps when I send an arm command, for instance - but the ack never gets back to the tag manager). It's very odd - especially since the mailbox application is one specifically called out by them for these tags.
smokegrub Posted February 20, 2017 Author Posted February 20, 2017 It's accelerometer and gyro based sensor - not a magnetic, reed or other mechanical tilt sensor. There does not appear to be a place to connect anything, but the do have an alternate product that does use a magnet the may work. I'll have to pick one up to see... As far as power output - there does not appear to be a way to set it - but there is a way to test what it's doing. The tags will lower their transmit level until the tag manager does not hear them anymore, then raise it again. Looking at the graphing a the tag is at max power, and the manager simply cannot hear it. However, when the mailbox is closed the manager can send to the tag (it beeps when I send an arm command, for instance - but the ack never gets back to the tag manager). It's very odd - especially since the mailbox application is one specifically called out by them for these tags. Oh well, I just ordered he Tag Manager and the pro sensor. Sounds like it is pretty much DOA and far as my mailbox is concerned. Will give it a try.
MWareman Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 Oh well, I just ordered he Tag Manager and the pro sensor. Sounds like it is pretty much DOA and far as my mailbox is concerned. Will give it a try.Hopefully, if it does not work for your mailbox you will find the tags utility useful in other areas. For instance, fridge, freezer and attic temp/humidity monitoring. Hopefully, it will work well for you where it did not for me - not sure why.
nwchicago Posted February 22, 2017 Posted February 22, 2017 I just ordered two tags and the controller. Can't wait for them to come. One is a Reed controller - want to put it on a gate and the other is a temp / humidity / motion detector I want to try with a wooden mailbox - if it doesn't work I'll put it in a fridge or freezer. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I am still a bit uncertain how I can integrate it into UDI, but I'll tackle that in stride. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
stusviews Posted February 22, 2017 Posted February 22, 2017 I just ordered two tags and the controller. Can't wait for them to come. One is a Reed controller - want to put it on a gate and the other is a temp / humidity / motion detector I want to try with a wooden mailbox - if it doesn't work I'll put it in a fridge or freezer. You get mail delivered to you freezer?
nwchicago Posted February 22, 2017 Posted February 22, 2017 Hahaha. Now that would be convenient! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
smokegrub Posted February 22, 2017 Author Posted February 22, 2017 Hopefully, if it does not work for your mailbox you will find the tags utility useful in other areas. For instance, fridge, freezer and attic temp/humidity monitoring. Hopefully, it will work well for you where it did not for me - not sure why. I will post an update when I try my setup. I, too will be interested in ISY integration when I finally decide if these are the course I want to follow. I have previously recommended to Smarthome that they develop devices to address the need for temperature/humidity measurement in harsh environments (attics/crawl spaces. etc.). Thus far, I see nothing on the horizon.
nwchicago Posted February 23, 2017 Posted February 23, 2017 I like the idea of checking temperature and humidity in attacks and crawl spaces. I've hear freezers and refrigerators too. I suppose some basements may be in order too if they are not a separate HVAC Zone but maybe some of the remote thermostats are better for that need. I am looking at putting tags in the mailbox and on my gates. Might. It be a bad idea to consider tags for an outdoor shed or treehouse too. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Scottmichaelj Posted February 23, 2017 Posted February 23, 2017 Might. It be a bad idea to consider tags for an outdoor shed or treehouse too. They do make "rain proof" versions for outside.
smokegrub Posted February 27, 2017 Author Posted February 27, 2017 I have tried a rainproof pro tag inside the mailbox and it fails to connect. Just for grins I tried it sitting atop the brick enclosure for the mailbox; works fine. I then tried on the outside of the mailbox door; failed. The brick structure sits between the mailbox door and the location of the tag manager. Tomorrow I am going to try maxing the signal strength and see what happens. Meanwhile, I have the tag set up to monitor temperature/humidity at a location inside the house. It is working beautifully. Setup of the tag manager was a snap, including email notifications. Following the mailbox test, I will test the tag in a chest freezer. If it works there I will be testing its ability to successfully operate following a power failure/power restoration. That will be the critical test it must pass in order to be added to a remote location. Thus far I am impressed with this technology. 1
stusviews Posted February 27, 2017 Posted February 27, 2017 Have you tried affixing the tag to the mailbox door?
mwester Posted February 27, 2017 Posted February 27, 2017 Is it fair to say, then, that the tags do not function well when attached (or very close to) large metal objects -- but they do work ok at large distances, or when shielded by masonry or plaster? Can someone try placing the tag on a non-metallic object inside said mailbox? It may be that close proximity to large amounts of metal is causing the RF transmitter (or receiver) to de-tune. Worth a try...
smokegrub Posted February 27, 2017 Author Posted February 27, 2017 Is it fair to say, then, that the tags do not function well when attached (or very close to) large metal objects -- but they do work ok at large distances, or when shielded by masonry or plaster? Can someone try placing the tag on a non-metallic object inside said mailbox? It may be that close proximity to large amounts of metal is causing the RF transmitter (or receiver) to de-tune. Worth a try... Placed the tag on a folded newspaper inside the box; didn't work.
smokegrub Posted February 27, 2017 Author Posted February 27, 2017 Have you tried affixing the tag to the mailbox door? Yes. I tried taping it on the outside of the door near its top and bottom and with the tag facing inside and out. Didn't work. I can lay it on top of the brick mailbox enclosure and it works fine so distance is not the limiting variable.
smokegrub Posted February 27, 2017 Author Posted February 27, 2017 Simulated a power failure by disconnecting the tag manager from the router and disconnecting the power to the tag manager. Waited a couple of minutes and reconnected and everything appears to be working correctly. That makes it a solid candidate for my remote location where I plan to use it to monitor temperature inside the house and supplement the Insteon stat which has been problematic since I installed it a couple of years ago. I will also use it to monitor temperature in the freezer. Finally, I will try it with the mailbox there since it is not enclosed with brickwork. I am thus far very pleased with the Tag Manager. Extremely easy to set up, including email notifications. Range is astounding. Unless I encounter something that has not yet feared its head these are going to become a serious part of my home automation system. 1
Scottmichaelj Posted February 27, 2017 Posted February 27, 2017 Simulated a power failure by disconnecting the tag manager from the router and disconnecting the power to the tag manager. Waited a couple of minutes and reconnected and everything appears to be working correctly. That makes it a solid candidate for my remote location where I plan to use it to monitor temperature inside the house and supplement the Insteon stat which has been problematic since I installed it a couple of years ago. I will also use it to monitor temperature in the freezer. Finally, I will try it with the mailbox there since it is not enclosed with brickwork. I am thus far very pleased with the Tag Manager. Extremely easy to set up, including email notifications. Range is astounding. Unless I encounter something that has not yet feared its head these are going to become a serious part of my home automation system. Come join us in this thread specifically for the wireless tags. The Kumoapp script is there for ISY integration using variables. CAO sensors support https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?share_fid=23986&share_tid=8818&url=http%3A%2F%2Fforum%2Euniversal-devices%2Ecom%2Findex%2Ephp%3F%2Ftopic%2F8818-CAO-sensors-support&share_type=t
smokegrub Posted February 28, 2017 Author Posted February 28, 2017 Come join us in this thread specifically for the wireless tags. The Kumoapp script is there for ISY integration using variables. CAO sensors support https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?share_fid=23986&share_tid=8818&url=http%3A%2F%2Fforum%2Euniversal-devices%2Ecom%2Findex%2Ephp%3F%2Ftopic%2F8818-CAO-sensors-support&share_type=t I went to the thread and read it in its entirety. For the most part, it is as you would say "above my pay grade"! The programming necessary to facilitate communication with the ISY exceeds my abilities. I will continue to monitor the thread because I am very impressed with the tags. Their range, their amazing ease of setup and their ability to address some thermal monitoring issues I have make them something I must thoroughly investigate. Obviously, the technology is there so I can only wonder at Smarthome's failure to create a line of products to fill this niche.
smokegrub Posted February 28, 2017 Author Posted February 28, 2017 More tests today. I discovered that I could increase the signal strength from the tag. I did that and placed the tag inside the mailbox. That test failed. I then taped the tag over a piece of cardboard and placed it on the inside of the mailbox door. The tag armed but performance was very unreliable. I then taped the tag to the front of the mailbox and over the cardboard. Seems to be performing well. Setup is ugly and will probably frighten the carrier! Will report as tests continue. Do you know of anyone who has painted a tag successfully. The tag is white and the box black.
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