rowland Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 My house has 30+ CFLs that are about 1 year old. I've not see any communication problems due to the CFLs until recently. One ToggleLinc Relay (2466S) started having the problem that it couldn't hear or be heard but only when it was on. The culprit was one of the four CFLs connected to the switch. I had not seen this particular failure type. I.e., the CFL was fine for more than a year and then started causing problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Thanks for the information. Good thing to remember if communications starts to go down hill and we have CFL Bulbs. I have a mix of CFL and CCFL [Cold Cathode] bulbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sub-Routine Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I have read this before. I will sticky this. Thank you Rowland. Rand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkraus Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 I have communication issues and saw this post because I have two CFLs. They are controlled not by by a toggle switch but a dimmer switch set always to 100% on. Anyone see an issue with this? Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowland Posted October 6, 2009 Author Share Posted October 6, 2009 The communication problems caused by a bad CFL would be the same for a dimmer as for a togglelinc. If you suspect the CFL just try swapping the old CFL for a new one. Are you experiencing problems communicating with the dimmers controlling the CFL while they are on? If so, it would seem the only thing to try is replacing the CFLs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 There could be a problem with a CFL on a dimmer switch even at 100% I found a thread on doing that exact thing. Even at 100% both the dimming switch and CFL could be damaged. Not sure about added noise. Though this could be dependent on the exact CFL and Dimmers hardware. http://sound.westhost.com/articles/incandescent.htm I have done a few tests with an Icon Lamp Module and an X10 Lamp Module. With two different CFL bulbs. Both drew more current on a Lamp Module at 100% over directly on the AC Line. Trying to dim them resulted in a 3X to 4X current draw and a smelly CFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkraus Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 replaced my CFLs with incandescent and so far all is working OK. If this indeed was a result of CFLs (will wait a week or so to confirm), then out go the CFL's....Baad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowland Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 With the exception of just one of my 30+ CFLs I've not had any problems using them. If you want to use CFLs, I'd suggest you try the ones I use which can obtained from http://www.bulbs.com/eSpec.aspx?ID=14715&Ref=Category&RefId=13 These are the hottest, most white that you can get, which I prefer. If you want cooler, redder, I suspect any CFL you can get from this site will work as well as the ones I'm using. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitch236 Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 I just read this and I have to say that my entire house has CFL's. I don't want to tempt fate but I haven't had any issues with controlling the CFL's yet. I'm more interested in the mention of increased current using dimmers at 100%. How is this possible? I would think running directly would draw the maximum current and anything in the line would decrease the current draw unless the dimmer itself is drawing the extra current. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Even at 100% the AC waveform is modified slightly as it can't turn on exactly at zero crossing. I have measured with some modules about 5 to 10 volts less on the load side than the line side even at 100%. Now dimmable CFLs and CCFLs maybe different as they can be dimmed. With some limitations. http://www.1000bulbs.com/images/PDF/Dim ... 20READ.pdf http://www.1000bulbs.com/images/PDF/dim ... -notes.pdf The distorted waveform could have messed up my current readings but I know one CFL really got cranky on 100% I only use relay type modules and switches on my CFLs and CCFLs. Even though my CCFLs can be dimmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 I just had a 1 year old Litetronics Microbrite MB-800DP CCFL. Start making enough noise to stop an ApplianceLinc from turning off the bulb. The noise at times was so strong the LED flickered so bad it looked off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyMike Posted February 27, 2010 Share Posted February 27, 2010 A few notes on dimmable CFL's: 1) They tend to generate more line noise as they are dimmed. 2) They age - i.e. both output level and line noise changes with age. 3) They are temperature sensitive. You cannot attain the same dimming levels in cold temperatures. I've had 8 Neptune dimmable CFLs installed in outdoor fixtures for over a year. The ISY turns these on at dusk at 100%. At around 11:00 PM they are dimmed. During summer months I can dim these to 15% reliably. Below that level they generate enough noise to interfere with communication. During the winter months a have to bump the dim level up to 30% to maintain light level/communications. We had a cold snap earlier in the month. Temperature was at -18F (i.e. squeaky snow cold) when I pulled out of the garage and noticed my porch light was still on. Investigating further, I found I could not communicate with that switch. Bumped to level to ~50% locally and the communication problems disappeared. Returning home that night, I found that I had lost two CFL's (separate circuits) in the back of the house. I believe this was a direct result of the cold temperatures and the dim level. The balasts on both of these units was discolored. Although these units were rated for "outdoor" use there was no temperature rating. I've since abandoned dimming the lights, at least during winter months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 I have 20+ CFL 23 watt bulbs around the perimeter of my home mounted at the 2nd story roofline making them less than convenient to replace. Since the house was built nine years ago they have been controlled first by an X10 switch and later with an Insteon switch (non-dimming). Never missed a beat. Lately I found that the lights would turn on OK but not respond to an OFF signal or a Query. Clearly a case of significant line noise being generated by one or more aging bulbs. The best solution is probably to replace all the bulbs which is a big job for my old bones (but I will do it). Looking through my home automation inventory I found an old Leviton 6287 in-line noise filter that I originally bought 26 years ago to solve an X10 problem caused by a neighbor's baby intercom and took it with me when we moved. After many years in retirement (the filter, not me) I pressed the unit back into service today installing it across the load side of the Insteon switch (red wire) and neutral. Works like a champ! Full signal authority has been restored. I'll still change the bulbs but now I can do it at my convenience. This is the first time I've had any signal issues with Insteon. Notably, the switch in question is located about 2 feet from the service panel and the PLM. The noise did not cause problems elsewhere. It paid off to hang on to the old X10 bits. I did notice one other problem last night that may or may not have been related to the noise issue. At 10 pm I have a programmed scene that turns off about 4 lights. At 10 pm last night the execution of that scene caused ALL of my Insteon devices to turn off (except for the one on the noisy circuit). Might have been some other anomaly - I'm still looking into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Kohanim Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Hello brobin, Thanks so very much for the information. The program/scene issue does not sound good. Please do keep us posted. With kind regards, Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Update to my earlier post - Testing later in the day I found that the noise suppressor was not 100% effective - as if the noise had gotten worse. The next option was to replace the 20+ CFL bulbs. After a quick jaunt to Costco to pick up the bulbs I started with the 5 that are low hanging fruit being reachable with just a step ladder. I checked for control after each bulb was replaced. Next came the 2nd floor roofline lights, each about 22 feet high, which are PITA to get to. Again, after each bulb replacement I'd check the signal. After climbing all afternoon I finally came to the second to last location which, BTW, is also closest to the switch. As I climbed toward the fixture I noticed that if I looked at the light in my peripheral vision I could clearly see the 60HZ flicker. I never saw that with any of the others and suspected that this might be the culprit. It was - after replacing that one full signal authority was restored and the filter went back into retirement. I finished my relamping project and hopefully won't be climbing anytime soon! As for the program problem, it did happen again tonight and I found a problem in the program. Should be OK now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Thank you for the update. I have seen reports of CFLs near end of life. Causing problems. Could have been worse. I saw a report of a X10 user having noise problems {not uncommon} and he shared the same street power transformer as his neighbor. In that case his neighbor had some CFLs nearing the end of their life and feeding back into his home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oatflake Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 This maybe a dumb question, but can CFLs impact the circuit if they are off? I have a whole bunch of CFLs in places which hardly get use and I'm troubleshooting a noisy circuit. I'm wondering they are switched off if they can still cause trouble. Otherwise I'll have to go climb a bunch of ladders and unscrew a whole bunch of bulbs before I can be sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowland Posted June 15, 2012 Author Share Posted June 15, 2012 This maybe a dumb question, but can CFLs impact the circuit if they are off? I have a whole bunch of CFLs in places which hardly get use and I'm troubleshooting a noisy circuit. I'm wondering they are switched off if they can still cause trouble. Otherwise I'll have to go climb a bunch of ladders and unscrew a whole bunch of bulbs before I can be sure! the only problem I could see is if they are on a dimmer and partially powered. if they are completely off, then, no they can't be problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahnoel130 Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Replace your cfl with led lights by absinthelights.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apostolakisl Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 This maybe a dumb question, but can CFLs impact the circuit if they are off? I have a whole bunch of CFLs in places which hardly get use and I'm troubleshooting a noisy circuit. I'm wondering they are switched off if they can still cause trouble. Otherwise I'll have to go climb a bunch of ladders and unscrew a whole bunch of bulbs before I can be sure! The insteon devices with "sense" might still cause some noise since they are not 100% off when off. This is just a statement based on the principle of how it works, I don't have any knowledge of anyone testing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 If the CFLs are on SwitchLinc Dimmers or the later SwitchLinc Relay models. Pulling the Air Gap Switch. Kills power to the switch and load. Just use care when pushing the Air Gap Switch back in. Go past it normal position. You can do a Factory reset on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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