How to Capture a Double-Tapped Event?

[procat]

New to ISY-994i IR/PRO, was using HouseLinc

 

So I have three rooms with speakers in ceilings, with three separate amps in the attic. 

Each room has keypads, one toggle button for on/off, one press button to Volume Up, and one press button to Volume Down. 

 

Commands are sent to an iTach (IP2IR) to control the amps. 

With HouseLinc I was able to capture double tap On's and double tap Off's ... which would turn all three amps on or off as to turn on music in the whole house, rather than just the room you happen to be in and update the buttons in other rooms to reflect the state. 

I've learned that even though I purchased a IR/PRO, I still have to purchase the network module to control IR iTach's in my case. I still can't figure out how to capture double-tapped commands from insteon devices. 

 

Any ideas?

 

 

[G W]

You do so in a program.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[larryllix]

A double tap sends a Fast On or Fast Off. These are options in programs.

 

Sent from my SGH-I257M using Tapatalk

[MWareman]

I've learned that even though I purchased a IR/PRO, I still have to purchase the network module to control IR iTach's in my case.

As above, in programs look for the 'fast on' and 'fast off' events. They are double-taps on Insteon devices.

 

As to IR, the IR model ISY has a built in IR sensor and sender. This is useful if the ISY is next to the equipment you want to control, or with the addition of a third party IR extender.

 

The iTach is a third party product that is controllable over the network - so that's why you need the network module.

[johnjces]

I was wondering about this too coming from HouseLinc and had yet to start my search!

 

Found it and thanks for the info!!!

 

John

[jtara92101]

fast-on/fast-off events with a program are best done with a non-load device, or a device where the load is not in use. I found this out the hard way.

 

The device will still control the load locally, and there is nothing you can do to change that. (Wouldn't it be so very nice if Insteon would provide a way to configure a device to decouple a switch paddle from the load!)

 

If you are using the load on the dimmer, then, you are going to have some strangeness. The local load will immediately go to full-on or full-off (depending on where you tap) and then your program will do whatever your program does. The result may not be pleasing!

[mwester]

Mr. jtara92101 is correct - you need to be careful to choose what the program does with the double-tap.

 

That said, I do have two switches, with loads, that also have programs on the double-tap.  The key is to make sure that the program doesn't try to adjust the load that's controlled by the switch that triggered the program.  In my case, the two switches are at the bottom and top of the basement stairs -- a double-tap OFF on the switch will do an internal "fast-off" of the attached load (the light controlled by that switch), and it also triggers a program on the ISY.  The program turns off all the lights in the various rooms in the basement, staggering each off from back to front in 30 second increments.  The result is that a quick double-tap off at the top of the basement stairs ends up with all the basement lights turning off -- but if for some reason someone is still down there, they have enough time to turn the lights back on locally before being plunged into sudden utter darkness.

[jtara92101]

Actually, it's not just an issue with local loads!

 

You have to think carefully, as well, if the paddle controls a scene. To avoid strangeness, you shouldn't do that, but have both both on/off and fast on/fast off just trigger programs. But, then, you will introduce a delay.

 

That said, I use to to turn off all bedroom-area lights. (Bathroom, closet, led candles, floor lamps.) There is no load on my KPL. I could assign a button, but I thought the double-tap was more intuitive.

[apostolakisl]

As above, in programs look for the 'fast on' and 'fast off' events. They are double-taps on Insteon devices.

 

As to IR, the IR model ISY has a built in IR sensor and sender. This is useful if the ISY is next to the equipment you want to control, or with the addition of a third party IR extender.

 

The iTach is a third party product that is controllable over the network - so that's why you need the network module.

 

Just to clarify here, IR models have a built-in IR receiver, but not a transmitter.  You need to purchase something like a global cache to send ir.  Insteon also makes one but it isn't very good compared to GC.  

[apostolakisl]

fast-on/fast-off events with a program are best done with a non-load device, or a device where the load is not in use. I found this out the hard way.

 

The device will still control the load locally, and there is nothing you can do to change that. (Wouldn't it be so very nice if Insteon would provide a way to configure a device to decouple a switch paddle from the load!)

 

If you are using the load on the dimmer, then, you are going to have some strangeness. The local load will immediately go to full-on or full-off (depending on where you tap) and then your program will do whatever your program does. The result may not be pleasing!

 

One thing you can do is off when already off, or fast off when already off, or vice-versa.

 

If

  (status switch x is off

   and

   control switch x is switched off)

 OR

  (status switch x is on

   and

   control switch x is switched on)

 

Then

do something

 

The above will let you use a switch to trigger something without changing the status of the switch and it's load.  

 

You can also do a fast on/off version of the same program.  The only thing is if the light is in a partially on state, then you either have to go full on or full off.

[stusviews]

A double-tap will turn the load on or off, just as a single-tap will do. It doesn't matter if you're using HL, an ISY or software. That's just a part of the Insteon protocol. Fast on/off bypasses ramp rate and brightness level.

Edited May 15, 2017 by stusviews

[apostolakisl]

A double-tap will turn the load on or off, just as a single-tap will do. It doesn't matter if you're using HL, an ISY or software. That's just a part of the Insteon protocol. Fast on/off bypasses ramp rate and brightness level.

Right, but a double top off, when already off is the same as not doing anything.  Same for on.

 

You have several options to use a load bearing switch as a trigger without affecting the load.

 

if

status on

and control on

 

If status off

and control off

 

If 

status on

and control fast on

 

If 

status off 

and control fast off

 

 

As I mentioned, you can't use this when a light is other than on or off.  

 

I use 

 

If

status off

and control off

 

All the time.

[cfoliaco]

An option could be make that the double tap increase a counter (Variable), making possible to break in an option according the number in the counter.

 

But as someone has said, can´t avoid turn on or off. For this maybe you could:

 

1. Use the switch without load. (Understanding that each room have keypad + switch)

2. Do something like: Execute the opposite action in the same program. Explain: If need to turn off music with double tap off and still have lights on, after double tap off turn the light on by the program. Guess the ramp should be relative high.

 

Remember set variable to zero at the end.

[apostolakisl]

An option could be make that the double tap increase a counter (Variable), making possible to break in an option according the number in the counter.

 

But as someone has said, can´t avoid turn on or off. For this maybe you could:

 

1. Use the switch without load. (Understanding that each room have keypad + switch)

2. Do something like: Execute the opposite action in the same program. Explain: If need to turn off music with double tap off and still have lights on, after double tap off turn the light on by the program. Guess the ramp should be relative high.

 

Remember set variable to zero at the end.

 

You can avoid turning the light on or off.  Assuming your load is not in a dimmed state, you click on when on or off when off and have both trip the same program with a then that executes your task.  If your light is on, then click on, if your light is off, click off, either way, the same program runs and you get the same "then" executed and the light doesn't change.

[larryllix]

An option could be make that the double tap increase a counter (Variable), making possible to break in an option according the number in the counter.

 

But as someone has said, can´t avoid turn on or off. For this maybe you could:

 

1. Use the switch without load. (Understanding that each room have keypad + switch)

2. Do something like: Execute the opposite action in the same program. Explain: If need to turn off music with double tap off and still have lights on, after double tap off turn the light on by the program. Guess the ramp should be relative high.

 

Remember set variable to zero at the end.

 

Double tap down causes the attached load to go immediately Off without any ramp. Any ISY intervention would be after the load turned off.

[cfoliaco]

You can avoid turning the light on or off. Assuming your load is not in a dimmed state, you click on when on or off when off and have both trip the same program with a then that executes your task. If your light is on, then click on, if your light is off, click off, either way, the same program runs and you get the same "then" executed and the light doesn't change.

Hi friend, that's why an option is to quit the load from the switch and handle with keypad in room. If that is possible all is about the program.

 

 

Edited May 16, 2017 by cfoliaco

[cfoliaco]

Double tap down causes the attached load to go immediately Off without any ramp. Any ISY intervention would be after the load turned off.

That double tap should to be very closed taps to each other. I guess.

But thinking carefully the first option is closer to the goal.

[apostolakisl]

Hi friend, that's why an option is to quit the load from the switch and handle with keypad in room. If that is possible all is about the program.

 

 

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying?

 

If you are asking is it possible to have the switch paddles be separate from the load wire, the answer is no.  All commands done by tapping the switch will instruct the load to change as per your action.  Obviously, tapping off if it is already off won't cause a change in the load wire and similarly, other paddle commands that would cause the load to go to a state that it has already achieved will have no affect on the load wire.

 

Despite this, the switch still recognizes that a paddle command was entered and broadcasts that command to the network.  ISY will see this command and respond to it as your programs have instructed.  

[cfoliaco]

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying?

 

If you are asking is it possible to have the switch paddles be separate from the load wire, the answer is no. All commands done by tapping the switch will instruct the load to change as per your action. Obviously, tapping off if it is already off won't cause a change in the load wire and similarly, other paddle commands that would cause the load to go to a state that it has already achieved will have no affect on the load wire.

 

Despite this, the switch still recognizes that a paddle command was entered and broadcasts that command to the network. ISY will see this command and respond to it as your programs have instructed.

Sorry, I was assuming that there was a KP and an on/off Switch in the room.

 

In the same way, I think programming you could handle the desired action in some way. Maybe counter variable increasing every double tap... I have done with a on/off switch to change the speed of fanlinc or turn on another light. This on/off switch have no load because is for a two way switch...

 

Hope to be clear jeje

[stusviews]

Since you can't change the established Insteon protocol without wreaking havoc (neither can Insteon Labs, read the Insteon white papers), the solution is to not connect a load to the device from which you want to capture a double-tap and use a program (or two, if you want to capture both on and off). I have bunches of devices with no load attached, mostly, but not exclusively in tabletop enclosures.

[apostolakisl]

Actually, KPL's are intended for this exact issue.  You can do a 6 button kpl, the on/off work the same as a switchlink, and you have 4 more buttons to do with as you please.

[stusviews]

Actually, KPL's are intended for this exact issue.  You can do a 6 button kpl, the on/off work the same as a switchlink, and you have 4 more buttons to do with as you please.

Using a 6- or 8-button secondary button will work as you stated, but without anything connected to the load wire, so will a SwitchLinc dimmer and even an On/Off Switch (relay).

[procat]

Thank you all for responses. The "Fast On"/"Fast Off" commands got me where I needed to go. 

 

I have ran into a second issue:

 

Setting the key pad button (E) to On or Off....

 

It appears all that one can set is the on and backlight levels for the device? See screen shot. 

[mwester]

The LED behind the button can only be turned on or off as part of a scene.  Create a scene that has nothing but that button in it, and then you'll be able to turn that scene on and off from the program.