Devices respond but not scenes from ISY software

[Rick Hansen]

All the switches in my home work properly when I use them locally including the keypad buttons. But when in the ISY software I am able to turn lights on and off Only when I do it through the devices. Converely in ISY if I try to do the same on/off against a scene, nothing happens. I did a restore PLM because I assume that will gather up and copy my homes in-switch data back to the PLM and ISY, but no luck. I did a few scene tests and they all failed. I would be very happy if I could somehow copy all the data in my switches back to the PLM and ISY, the house itself is working and configured exactly the way I want it. I just need to get the scenes to respond to ISY software. As I said earlier the devices do respond to the ISY on/off commands, but when doing the same on a scene, nothing happens. I also use Homelink on my iPad and that software has exactly the same issue, I can switch devices on and off, but the software has no effect when switching a scene. I think this is an indication that my PLM is hosed because the switches in the home work, but software cannot control the scenes?

[Brian H]

In the Tools; Diagnostics PLM Info/Status should show the PLM address and connected. Since you can control them directly I suspect it will show connected.

 

In Tools; Diagnostics Show Device Links Table for one of the modules. Then use the compare feature to see if the PLM Link Table for that module matches.

 

You can see if the Tools; Diagnostics Show PLM Link Table to see how many links are in the PLM. The count can be effected it there is any Insteon activity so most do it a few times to see if the counts are the same.

 

How old is the 2413S PLM? Any 2413S PLM over two years old is suspect. As they seem to fail at about 2 years and a few months old. Just over the two year warranty.

 

Thread on the issue and how some of us fixed our old one.

http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/13866-repair-of-2413s-plm-when-the-power-supply-fails/

 

If you can post the numbers and letters on the labels on the back of the PLM that may help us.

[Rick Hansen]

Thanks, I'll take a look at those tables. My Plm that is plugged to the iSy is less than a year old. I have two plm in the house because the signal wasn't getting to the other phase on some switches, adding the second plm fixed the bridging issue last year.

[paulbates]

Rick, another test to run: 

• Pick a small group of devices to test that share a scene.
• Right click on each, one at a time, in the admin console and "restore device".
• Rerun that scene test

Paul

[larryllix]

Thanks, I'll take a look at those tables. My Plm that is plugged to the iSy is less than a year old. I have two plm in the house because the signal wasn't getting to the other phase on some switches, adding the second plm fixed the bridging issue last year.

Two PLMs?

How are you managing signal sharing between two, and what is controlling them?

[Brian H]

You added the second PLM to the setup. As a phase bridge only and it is not also connected to the ISY994i?

That would work as would any other plug in Dual Band module.

[Techman]

All the switches in my home work properly when I use them locally including the keypad buttons. But when in the ISY software I am able to turn lights on and off Only when I do it through the devices. Converely in ISY if I try to do the same on/off against a scene, nothing happens. I did a restore PLM because I assume that will gather up and copy my homes in-switch data back to the PLM and ISY, but no luck. I did a few scene tests and they all failed. I would be very happy if I could somehow copy all the data in my switches back to the PLM and ISY, the house itself is working and configured exactly the way I want it. I just need to get the scenes to respond to ISY software. As I said earlier the devices do respond to the ISY on/off commands, but when doing the same on a scene, nothing happens. I also use Homelink on my iPad and that software has exactly the same issue, I can switch devices on and off, but the software has no effect when switching a scene. I think this is an indication that my PLM is hosed because the switches in the home work, but software cannot control the scenes?

 

When you do a restore PLM it copies the data links from the ISY to the PLM.  It does not write any data to the ISY. When you do a scene test it will bring up a level 3 diagnostic report. Copy and past that report to the forum

 

Can you also post a program that you're using to turn a scene on.

[Rick Hansen]

Thanks,

 

Here is the log of a scene test, this scene has 2 requesters and one responder, it turns on my kitchen counter lights from 2 different locations.

 

Sun 05/28/2017 11:11:03 AM : [GRP-RX      ] 02 61 13 13 00 15 

<html><font color="red">----- Kitchen Cabinets Test Results -----</font></html>

<html><font color="red">[Failed]</font> Kitchen Cabinets (22 CB 30 5)</html>

<html><font color="red">[Failed]</font> Kitchen Cabinets (1E F4 32 1)</html>

<html><font color="red">[Failed]</font> Kitchen Cabinets (29 FC FC 5)</html>

<html><font color="red">----- Kitchen Cabinets Test Results -----</font></html>

Sun 05/28/2017 11:11:12 AM : [iNST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 26 87 9E 0F 0D 00

Sun 05/28/2017 11:11:12 AM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 26.87.9E 0F 0D 00 06                 (00)

Sun 05/28/2017 11:11:21 AM : [iNST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 26 87 9E 0F 0D 00

Sun 05/28/2017 11:11:21 AM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 26.87.9E 0F 0D 00 06                 (00)

 

 

[Rick Hansen]

Rick, another test to run: 

• Pick a small group of devices to test that share a scene.
• Right click on each, one at a time, in the admin console and "restore device".
• Rerun that scene test

Paul

 

 

Paul,

 

I did a restore device on the one and only device in my simple kitchen counter scene (see log I poster earlier). This didnt repair the issue. The wall switch still functions properly. I can still trigger on/off from ISY software against the device but not against the scene. Here is the same diag log after doing the restore device:

 

Sun 05/28/2017 11:24:04 AM : [GRP-RX      ] 02 61 13 13 00 15 

<html><font color="red">----- Kitchen Cabinets Test Results -----</font></html>

<html><font color="red">[Failed]</font> Kitchen Cabinets (22 CB 30 5)</html>

<html><font color="red">[Failed]</font> Kitchen Cabinets (1E F4 32 1)</html>

<html><font color="red">[Failed]</font> Kitchen Cabinets (29 FC FC 5)</html>

<html><font color="red">----- Kitchen Cabinets Test Results -----</font></html>

Sun 05/28/2017 11:24:08 AM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 00.00.13 CF 13 00 06          LTOFFRR(00)

Sun 05/28/2017 11:24:08 AM : [std MH      ] Unexpected Ack imCmd=62 cmd1=LTOFFRR 0x13

Sun 05/28/2017 11:24:13 AM : [iNST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 26 87 9E 0F 0D 00

Sun 05/28/2017 11:24:13 AM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 26.87.9E 0F 0D 00 06                 (00)

Sun 05/28/2017 11:24:22 AM : [iNST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 26 87 9E 0F 0D 00

Sun 05/28/2017 11:24:22 AM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 26.87.9E 0F 0D 00 06                 (00)

[Rick Hansen]

In the Tools; Diagnostics PLM Info/Status should show the PLM address and connected. Since you can control them directly I suspect it will show connected.

 

In Tools; Diagnostics Show Device Links Table for one of the modules. Then use the compare feature to see if the PLM Link Table for that module matches.

 

You can see if the Tools; Diagnostics Show PLM Link Table to see how many links are in the PLM. The count can be effected it there is any Insteon activity so most do it a few times to see if the counts are the same.

 

How old is the 2413S PLM? Any 2413S PLM over two years old is suspect. As they seem to fail at about 2 years and a few months old. Just over the two year warranty.

 

Thread on the issue and how some of us fixed our old one.

http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/13866-repair-of-2413s-plm-when-the-power-supply-fails/

 

If you can post the numbers and letters on the labels on the back of the PLM that may help us.

 

 

Brian,

 

I did a show links device table for my kitchen cabinet lights, and I did the compare tool. The compare showed all lines Identical, unfortunately that function in the program doesn't have a log export option.

[Rick Hansen]

The PLM that is plugged into my ISY is v2.2 by the way, which I bought almost a year ago. The second PLM is version 1.1 and is simply being used as a signal bridge on the opposite 110 phase, that unit I have had since 2013 or so before I even purchased an ISY.

[paulbates]

Thanks Rick

 

The unexpected ack is interesting. Can you go to the Admin Console, and do a couple of screen captures

1. click on the scene in question, and use the snipping tool or otherwise screen capture it
2. click on the device itself, and over on the far right of the admin console, snip/screen capture the "membership" information

Attach those a pics to a post here. Thanks

 

Paul

[Rick Hansen]

Thanks Rick

 

The unexpected ack is interesting. Can you go to the Admin Console, and do a couple of screen captures

1. click on the scene in question, and use the snipping tool or otherwise screen capture it
2. click on the device itself, and over on the far right of the admin console, snip/screen capture the "membership" information

Attach those a pics to a post here. Thanks

 

Paul

 

Thanks Paul,

 

Here are the screen shots:

 

https://ibb.co/ncfz5v

 

https://ibb.co/iWiadF

 

 

[Rick Hansen]

When you do a restore PLM it copies the data links from the ISY to the PLM.  It does not write any data to the ISY. When you do a scene test it will bring up a level 3 diagnostic report. Copy and past that report to the forum

 

Can you also post a program that you're using to turn a scene on.

 

 

In addition to the ISY admin, I'm using MobiLinc on the iPad to switch devices on/off. However that program also cannot switch a scene on/off, it behave just like ISY on/off commands to a scene, no effect.

 

http://mobilinc.com/

[paulbates]

Kevin, Ok, thanks

 

If you go back to the scene on the left, and click on each device in the scene, what are their on levels - that needs to be > 0%

 

Paul

[Rick Hansen]

Kevin, Ok, thanks

 

If you go back to the scene on the left, and click on each device in the scene, what are their on levels - that needs to be > 0%

 

Paul

 

All the scene requesters have 100% on level, also the thing they are controlling is an appliance link, the kitchen cabinet lights are plugged into an appliance linc.

 

I did right click all the requesters and responders in the kitchen cabinet scene and selected pop up menu "Advanced/PLM Communication" and I get the message for each "This device does not support PLM communication settings" if that means anything.

[paulbates]

Hmmm.  One other thing I do when having scene issues is to complete delete the scene, and then rebuild it.

 

The message on the device not supporting PLM communications will not be a problem in this case.

 

Paul

[Rick Hansen]

Hmmm.  One other thing I do when having scene issues is to complete delete the scene, and then rebuild it.

 

The message on the device not supporting PLM communications will not be a problem in this case.

 

Paul

 

 

I wish the ISY people had a function that would do just that by using the "raw data" that I know exists in the switches and devices themselves. Because the scenes work fine when I'm standing at the physical switches and pressing them. It seems like a simple thing to just have a new ISY function go gather up the links from the house and rebuild them so that a scene can be activated with software as well as physically pressing a scene button.

 

Sadly, I may have to resort to re-doing everything in the house from scratch but my network is listing over 60 device nodes not counting the scenes, and I have all the buttons laser etched so its a big job to delete and re-make everything just to gain software control of scenes that work already. Thanks for your help. I wish there were local experts for hire that knew Insteon and ISY, I'd be glad to pay them $1,000 right now to get it all working.

[Techman]

In addition to the ISY admin, I'm using MobiLinc on the iPad to switch devices on/off. However that program also cannot switch a scene on/off, it behave just like ISY on/off commands to a scene, no effect.

 

http://mobilinc.com/

 

Rick,

 

Keep in mind that the IOLinc is not a dual band device. Also the old PLM you're using as a bridge may not be dual band, so there's a chance it's not improving your network.

You may want to pick up a pair of range extenders. they include a diagnostic leds to verify that the two sides of your powerline are bridged.

 

The newer on/off modules replace the older appliance modules and are dual band

 

What type of lights are plugged into the appliance module? Are they incandescent, CFL, etc?

 

Run a PLM link count and report back with the number of links.  All the scene data resides in the PLM, not the ISY, so it's possible that you're missing some PLM links.

 

Smarthome is having a 20% off sale with free shipping, which ends tomorrow, in case you want to pick up a few things.

[Brian H]

Though a 2413S PLM hardware 1.1 is a Dual Band module. It is also over the typical 2 years and a few months failure age. So it may not be doing phase coupling any more or actually making things worse.

[Rick Hansen]

Rick,

 

Keep in mind that the IOLinc is not a dual band device. Also the old PLM you're using as a bridge may not be dual band, so there's a chance it's not improving your network.

You may want to pick up a pair of range extenders. they include a diagnostic leds to verify that the two sides of your powerline are bridged.

 

The newer on/off modules replace the older appliance modules and are dual band

 

What type of lights are plugged into the appliance module? Are they incandescent, CFL, etc?

 

Run a PLM link count and report back with the number of links.  All the scene data resides in the PLM, not the ISY, so it's possible that you're missing some PLM links.

 

Smarthome is having a 20% off sale with free shipping, which ends tomorrow, in case you want to pick up a few things.

 

 

All my devices are dual band. The v1.1 PLM indicated that is was on the opposite leg of the powerline using the procedure Smarthome recommends to use two PLMs as a bridge.

 

I no longer use CFL's at all, everything is the latest LED's which are infinitely better and cheaper than the LED's of a only few years ago, they even dim smoothly now. I still use a few incandescents but only over the granite in pendants because they make the gold granite glow like nothing I've ever tried there before. I have no powerline interference or signal problems, its all data problems apparently. I wish the ISY used a real database like SQL Server to manage the links then let you reliably "burn them" to the house, I know synching the data in the devices; with the data in the PLM; with the data in the ISY has got to be a nightmare for the ISY developers. Its very confusing for me to know exactly what I'm doing with the various functions that update the network. I'm resigned to get one new scene working to show that the PLM is still good, then delete and re-add all my scenes.

[Rick Hansen]

Here is the current status... I added a completely new scene that didnt exist before and I am able to switch that scene on/off via the scene using software. But none of my old scenes work via software but do work "at the switch". This shows that the PLM is good and can hold data (right?), but somehow lost all its "old" data (maybe with the many surges I get in this neighborhood? who knows.). I dont know at what point it lost it as I dont use ISY or mobilLinc that often to switch scenes, I use mobilLinc to switch specific devices like blinds in the TV room.

 

Knowing this I'm going to document every one of my scenes one by one, then delete it, then re-construct it again. Basically re-programming the whole house.

 

Maybe ISY should consider adding a "delete scene and re-add it" function to the software? Where you could right-click a single scene and when selected ISY will delete all the links of that scene and delete the scene, then automatically re-add all the things it just deleted. Just a suggestion, its a sledgehammer approach to fixing a scene but at least the user wouldnt have to pre-document all the devices and levels in a scene in order to delete it and re-add it manually.

 

 

 

[Techman]

Here is the current status... I added a completely new scene that didnt exist before and I am able to switch that scene on/off via the scene using software. But none of my old scenes work via software but do work "at the switch". This shows that the PLM is good and can hold data (right?), but somehow lost all its "old" data (maybe with the many surges I get in this neighborhood? who knows.). I dont know at what point it lost it as I dont use ISY or mobilLinc that often to switch scenes, I use mobilLinc to switch specific devices like blinds in the TV room.

 

Knowing this I'm going to document every one of my scenes one by one, then delete it, then re-construct it again. Basically re-programming the whole house.

 

Maybe ISY should consider adding a "delete scene and re-add it" function to the software? Where you could right-click a single scene and when selected ISY will delete all the links of that scene and delete the scene, then automatically re-add all the things it just deleted. Just a suggestion, its a sledgehammer approach to fixing a scene but at least the user wouldnt have to pre-document all the devices and levels in a scene in order to delete it and re-add it manually.

 

Did you do a PLM link count?

 

It appears that the PLM has lost some of its links to the previously stored scenes.

.

[Rick Hansen]

Did you do a PLM link count?

 

It appears that the PLM has lost some of its links to the previously stored scenes.

.

 

 

I could do that but the correction in the end seems to be re-adding the scenes anyway. Thanks for all the help here.

[stusviews]

Here is the current status... I added a completely new scene that didnt exist before and I am able to switch that scene on/off via the scene using software. But none of my old scenes work via software but do work "at the switch". This shows that the PLM is good and can hold data (right?), but somehow lost all its "old" data (maybe with the many surges I get in this neighborhood? who knows.). I dont know at what point it lost it as I dont use ISY or mobilLinc that often to switch scenes, I use mobilLinc to switch specific devices like blinds in the TV room.

 

Knowing this I'm going to document every one of my scenes one by one, then delete it, then re-construct it again. Basically re-programming the whole house.

 

Not if the PLM count is unusually low. That would indicate a failed or failing PLM. If that were the case, rebuilding scenes would work--for a while and you'd be back where you started.

 

BTW, one functioning scene is not a PLM test.

 

 

Maybe ISY should consider adding a "delete scene and re-add it" function to the software? Where you could right-click a single scene and when selected ISY will delete all the links of that scene and delete the scene, then automatically re-add all the things it just deleted. Just a suggestion, its a sledgehammer approach to fixing a scene but at least the user wouldnt have to pre-document all the devices and levels in a scene in order to delete it and re-add it manually.

 

Once a scene is deleted, it's gone. One would have to deactivate the scene, make a fresh copy, delete the old scene and then activate the new scene. That's not a trivial task. Try the count first, st least twice. There should be minimum Insteonactivity during the count. No activity at all is best.