New PLM. Now ISY-994 won't control scenes

[Buzzhazz]

Like many here, two plus years has come and gone, and after a recent power loss related to a storm, my PLM stopped working. I was going to do the capacitor replacement procedure found elsewhere on this forum but noticed that Smarthome is now selling a (supposedly) beefier PLM, so I ordered one.

 

I went through the PLM restore procedure located here and all seemed to go well, but though I can control devices individually, I cannot control any of the scenes. I determined this because some of the buttons on my KPLs trigger scenes, and those buttons were not activating as expected, so I tried it directly from the ISY admin panel, and I can't control from there either. I did delete and recreate once scene just to play around and can control that one scene now, so worst case, I can hopefully do that for all my scenes, but that's obviously not the preferred solution.

 

Has anyone else experienced this behavior? Any suggestions on how I can fix it?

 

Thanks in advance.

[larryllix]

Like many here, two plus years has come and gone, and after a recent power loss related to a storm, my PLM stopped working. I was going to do the capacitor replacement procedure found elsewhere on this forum but noticed that Smarthome is now selling a (supposedly) beefier PLM, so I ordered one.

 

I went through the PLM restore procedure located here and all seemed to go well, but though I can control devices individually, I cannot control any of the scenes. I determined this because some of the buttons on my KPLs trigger scenes, and those buttons were not activating as expected, so I tried it directly from the ISY admin panel, and I can't control from there either. I did delete and recreate once scene just to play around and can control that one scene now, so worst case, I can hopefully do that for all my scenes, but that's obviously not the preferred solution.

 

Has anyone else experienced this behavior? Any suggestions on how I can fix it?

 

Thanks in advance.

Do you have a good and recent ISY backup?

[Buzzhazz]

The last one I have is a year old. Probably when I last updated the ISY. I tend to update every once in a great while and then not fix things that are not broke. It may be as good as a recent one though as my system has been working and I am not sure I have messed with it since then.

Edited August 4, 2017 by buzzhazzard

[Buzzhazz]

As a follow up, none of my programs work, and when I create a new very simple one, it won't work either.   What can I do to get things working again?

[jdsmeak]

Same thing I am experiencing here, have the new PLM. System is also extremely slow near unusable

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[apostolakisl]

I would start by

 

1) creating a backup as is currently.  (it would have been best if you had done that prior to replacing the plm, but oh well)

2) try "restore plm" function from ISY menu.

3) If still doesn't work

4) restore you backup from a year ago

5) use "restore plm" function again

 

If still no luck, put a repair ticket in to UDI.

[Techman]

Like many here, two plus years has come and gone, and after a recent power loss related to a storm, my PLM stopped working. I was going to do the capacitor replacement procedure found elsewhere on this forum but noticed that Smarthome is now selling a (supposedly) beefier PLM, so I ordered one.

 

I went through the PLM restore procedure located here and all seemed to go well, but though I can control devices individually, I cannot control any of the scenes. I determined this because some of the buttons on my KPLs trigger scenes, and those buttons were not activating as expected, so I tried it directly from the ISY admin panel, and I can't control from there either. I did delete and recreate once scene just to play around and can control that one scene now, so worst case, I can hopefully do that for all my scenes, but that's obviously not the preferred solution.

 

Has anyone else experienced this behavior? Any suggestions on how I can fix it?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

What Is the version of your ISY firmware and UI?

[lilyoyo1]

Make sure you unplug your ISY before swapping the plm

[Brian H]

Also when powering back up.

Power up the PLM first so it can fully initialize before powering up the ISY994i.

[Buzzhazz]

What Is the version of your ISY firmware and UI?

Firmware: 4.5.4

UI: 4.6.2

[mwester]

Firmware: 4.5.4

UI: 4.6.2

Well there's at least part of your problems -- you MUST have the GUI and the firmware at the EXACT SAME version level.  You'll want to fix that before you go a step further in trying to fix the issues.

[Buzzhazz]

Make sure you unplug your ISY before swapping the plm

 

 

 

 

Also when powering back up.

Power up the PLM first so it can fully initialize before powering up the ISY994i.

 

No progress to report today.  I went back and followed the Wiki process to the letter as well as the tips above to ensure I didn't miss anything. I have NOT taken the step of restoring to my year old backup yet.  Here's the behavior I notice after selecting Restore PLM.

 

--The Restore dialog lasts about 30 seconds. During that time, the progress bar goes from 0 to 2 percent and then closes out.

 

--From the Admin Console, I can control all individual devices, and locally, all devices work locally (as I would expect).

 

--None of my scenes worked using the Admin Console after the initial Restore PLM yesterday. Yesterday, I deleted a couple scenes and recreated them, and they worked. Today, after a couple restoration attempts, the new scenes I built yesterday worked but none of the older ones do.

 

--None of my programs work. I only have a few, so I thought I'd consider just deleting and recreating, but first I tried a couple of very simple new programs. I tried one such that if a currently unused KPL button was turned on, a light in another room would turn on. It didn't work. Then I tried a simple timer program: At time=XX:XXX, turn on a certain light.  THAT one works, so it appears timer programs work but programs triggered by button pushes do not.

 

I'm not savvy at reading event logs or error logs, but I think I know how to create and paste them if that will help.

 

I'm willing to recreate my scenes and programs; I'm not a power user so it's not like I have hundreds, but though the scene recreation works, not so much for programs.

 

This is strange to me, and I am running out of ideas. Thanks for the continued input.

[Buzzhazz]

Well there's at least part of your problems -- you MUST have the GUI and the firmware at the EXACT SAME version level.  You'll want to fix that before you go a step further in trying to fix the issues.

OK, I updated to the current version. Not sure how they got out of synch. Is one automatic and the other a manual decision?  

 

I went ahead and then tried one more PLM Restore. No change. The behavior is the same at this point. 

Edited August 4, 2017 by buzzhazzard

[Teken]

OK, I updated to the current version. Not sure how they got out of synch. Is one automatic and the other a manual decision?  

 

I went ahead and then tried one more PLM Restore. No change. The behavior is the same at this point. 

 

Anytime you update the firmware on the controller you must *Manually* download the appropriate Admin Console. This information is boldly listed in the steps to follow.

 

There are several things that need to be done in order as listed out by the other forum members.

 

- Remove power from the ISY Series Controller.

- Apply power to the 2413S PLM for at least ten seconds.

- Apply power to the ISY Series Controller.

 

- Complete the PLM restore which can take hours to complete. If that process is completed in mere seconds / minutes ~ Its failed.

- If the above has failed you need to complete a ISY Restore. Once complete you can perform the PLM Restore process.

 

- Additional steps may to complete a hardware restore of each device. If you have a large Insteon network this can take a lot of time.

 

- If none of this works and based on your previous replies its just easier to start from scratch as you did in creating new scenes. The cost vs value ratio comes down to how much time, patience, and hair on your head . . .

[Buzzhazz]

I've followed the steps up to Restore ISY and also restore all devices, and since I am not sure I want to restore with a one-year old backup, I've decided to start fresh. I am almost done recreating scenes, but I still do not understand what is going on with the inability to execute programs. Time based programs work but controller based ones do not. The ISY does not appear to be seeing key presses perhaps. For example, I created a simple program such that when I turn the A button ON on a 6-key KPL, it should turn on a fan light and a foyer light (which is a virtual 4-way), but nothing happens when I turn Button A on.
 

New Program - [ID 000C][Parent 0001]

If
        Control 'LL - Stairs / 15.C6.8C.A' is switched On
 
Then
        Set 'Great Room - Fan Light' On
        Set Scene 'Scenes / Foyer 4-Way' On
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
 

Edited August 4, 2017 by buzzhazzard

[mwester]

Usually that means that the links in the devices do not refer to the PLM.

 

Normally, one would restore each device to re-write this data -- when you replace the PLM, one of the steps that's supposed to happen involves the ISY computing the new link database entries, based on the new PLM's address, and updating each and every device.

 

As I understand your last post, you have:

- factory-reset your devices (switchlincs and appliancelincs, etc)

- defined scenes in the ISY

- ensured those scenes were written to the devices

- tested that operating the switchlincs, etc, result in the other devices responding correctly

 

Is that correct?

 

Then, you are observing that:

- a program triggered by turning on a switchlinc (or similar controller) does NOT trigger.

 

Can you check to see if the ISY knows the correct status for the scene controlled by that switchlinc (or similar controller)?  In other words, does the admin console's view of the controlled devices (responders) change when you manually operate the switchlinc (or similar controller)?

 

If yes, then you have a problem with the program logic, folder conditions, or a runaway program, or something like that... but if no, then your symptoms are all compatible with missing a very important step when replacing a PLM -- one that could explain all the issues described above.  Basically, when the ISY writes scenes (links) to devices, it always add a link to it's PLM by address -- this is how it knows when a device has done something (i.e. when a switchlinc has turned on).  In order to do this, the ISY needs to know the PLM's address -- it gets this when the ISY boots up.  So, if PLM was swapped while the ISY was running, then the ISY never obtained the PLM's address, and is continuing to use the old (failed) PLM's address.  And that includes writing that old PLM's address into all the link tables instead of the new one.

 

Hopefully that latter scenario isn't what happened, because if so, it's just plain easier to factory reset everything -- including ISY -- and start over.

[Buzzhazz]

 

 

 

 

 

Can you check to see if the ISY knows the correct status for the scene controlled by that switchlinc (or similar controller)?  In other words, does the admin console's view of the controlled devices (responders) change when you manually operate the switchlinc (or similar controller)?

 

If yes, then you have a problem with the program logic, folder conditions, or a runaway program, or something like that... but if no, then your symptoms are all compatible with missing a very important step when replacing a PLM -- one that could explain all the issues described above.  Basically, when the ISY writes scenes (links) to devices, it always add a link to it's PLM by address -- this is how it knows when a device has done something (i.e. when a switchlinc has turned on).  In order to do this, the ISY needs to know the PLM's address -- it gets this when the ISY boots up.  So, if PLM was swapped while the ISY was running, then the ISY never obtained the PLM's address, and is continuing to use the old (failed) PLM's address.  And that includes writing that old PLM's address into all the link tables instead of the new one.

 

Hopefully that latter scenario isn't what happened, because if so, it's just plain easier to factory reset everything -- including ISY -- and start over.

 

Thanks for the reply. You understand the steps I have taken correctly.

 

The Admin Console's view of the responders DOES change when I remotely activate (for example) a scene.  If a controller for the three way virtual hall switch, for example, is turned from Off to On, the Scene page in the Admin Console immediately changes to On.

 

I'm thinking I may be better off starting over, which I do not look forward to. I have ~60 devices. Everything has been working just fine for two years. And then the cheaply-made PLM failed, and here we are . . .

Edited August 5, 2017 by buzzhazzard

[lilyoyo1]

Did you do restore PLM and restore devices

Edited August 5, 2017 by lilyoyo1

[Buzzhazz]

Did you do restore PLM and restore devices

Yep

[Buzzhazz]

 

 

Can you check to see if the ISY knows the correct status for the scene controlled by that switchlinc (or similar controller)?  In other words, does the admin console's view of the controlled devices (responders) change when you manually operate the switchlinc (or similar controller)?

 

If yes, then you have a problem with the program logic, folder conditions, or a runaway program, or something like that... but if no, then your symptoms are all compatible with missing a very important step when replacing a PLM -- one that could explain all the issues described above.  Basically, when the ISY writes scenes (links) to devices, it always add a link to it's PLM by address -- this is how it knows when a device has done something (i.e. when a switchlinc has turned on).  In order to do this, the ISY needs to know the PLM's address -- it gets this when the ISY boots up.  So, if PLM was swapped while the ISY was running, then the ISY never obtained the PLM's address, and is continuing to use the old (failed) PLM's address.  And that includes writing that old PLM's address into all the link tables instead of the new one.

 

Hopefully that latter scenario isn't what happened, because if so, it's just plain easier to factory reset everything -- including ISY -- and start over.

 

As I wrote earlier, the ISY knows the correct status for the scene when controlled by an external controller. And the ISY, once I rebuilt my scenes, can control all devices and all scenes. On the program side, timer programs run, but programs that are triggered by a KPL button or Switchlinc push do not work.

 

I hate the thought or resetting everything including ISY to factory settings, but barring any last minute input from the experts here, I guess that's what I'll try.  

 

I'm still a bit unclear on the IST reset even after reading the documentation.  Do I need to do anything with the external SD card? Should I delete all scenes. programs and devices and the create a backup consisting (I guess) of basic configuration data.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Buzzhazz]

Well, I'm not sure what caused my problem, but ultimately I decided to reset the ISY and all Insteon devices including the PLM to factory settings and start from scratch. The reset and rebuild took less time than I though (~60 devices), but on a bright note, I was able to make some improvements in organization along the way. All is working as it should now.

 

Moderators, feel free to delete this thread if you like, and I'm not sure what useful information it provides at this point.

[Teken]

Well, I'm not sure what caused my problem, but ultimately I decided to reset the ISY and all Insteon devices including the PLM to factory settings and start from scratch. The reset and rebuild took less time than I though (~60 devices), but on a bright note, I was able to make some improvements in organization along the way. All is working as it should now.

 

Moderators, feel free to delete this thread if you like, and I'm not sure what useful information it provides at this point.

 

I would offer your personal experience relays when all recommended steps are completed but don't yield the positive results one expects.

 

The end result is a hard reset is the final solution . . .

[Buzzhazz]

I would offer your personal experience relays when all recommended steps are completed but don't yield the positive results one expects.

 

The end result is a hard reset is the final solution . . .

That's a fair point.  And the "start from scratch" experience was far less painful than I had imagined. I used the Generate Topology function (Under Tools) to create a listing of all my current device names and codes and took screenshots of my Scenes and their components.  I cut and pasted my programs to a Word Document so I can recreate them.  All in all, not a bad experience.  

 

Thanks to you and the others for the advice and input.

[Teken]

That's a fair point.  And the "start from scratch" experience was far less painful than I had imagined. I used the Generate Topology function (Under Tools) to create a listing of all my current device names and codes and took screenshots of my Scenes and their components.  I cut and pasted my programs to a Word Document so I can recreate them.  All in all, not a bad experience.  

 

Thanks to you and the others for the advice and input.

 

No worries, please do remember to make a back up once you're done. Fire a copy to a USB drive / stick ~ The other to a cloud hosted storage service for off site storage and safe keeping.

 

Rock On . . .

[Techman]

That's a fair point.  And the "start from scratch" experience was far less painful than I had imagined. I used the Generate Topology function (Under Tools) to create a listing of all my current device names and codes and took screenshots of my Scenes and their components.  I cut and pasted my programs to a Word Document so I can recreate them.  All in all, not a bad experience.  

 

Thanks to you and the others for the advice and input.

 

Don't forget to make a backup of your ISY.