Insteon question - controlling various groups of lights across multiple key pads

[zg825]

Hello, I am about to build a new home and I'm planning on using insteon switches/keypads throughout the house. I'm working with my builder to plan the group's of lights so I can figure out the number of switches/keypads that I'll need. 

 

While I've been putting my ideas down on paper figuring out which keypad should talk to which group, potential issue popped up which I'm sure there's an easy answer. I'll provide an example but the overall premise is how does insteon control a grouping of lights across multiple switches/keypad.

 

Here's a simple example 

 

There are three groups of lights in the kitchen (recessed, pendant, and morning room).  

 

I have a switch that controls each light separately. 

 

I have a keypad with a button that can turn all three lights together. 

 

Another button on that keypad will only control the recessed and pendant light. 

 

My question is, if I hit the switch that turns on the recessed light, and then go to the keypad and hit the button with the scene that controls the 3 lights, what will happen? In my ideal situation, since the recessed light is already on due to me pressing the switch, when I hit the button the morning room light and pendant light will also turn on, joining the recessed light that should remain on.

 

I didn't know if the pendant light and morning room light would turn on, and the recessed light would turn off. 

 

 

The other part to this is if I hit the 2nd button that controls the pendant and recessed light, would only those 2 turn off (given that all three are on).

 

I appreciate the help!

[stusviews]

First an foremost is a neutral in each and every switch box. That'd code now, so it shouldn't be a problem, but it's wise to remind the contractor/electrician.

 

With the ISY, you can do virtually anything you want concerning those three lights. Turning on (or off) a light will never turn off (or on) another light unless you specify that to happen, In fact, you can have one scene that does not affect the other light and one that does, your choice.

[larryllix]

Yeah! Exactly what Stu posted above from the mechanical to the logic comments.

 

I only have one KPL and it function as a combination lock. I don't like the looks or the function of them.

 

In my Gathering room I have 6 x RGBWW LED strips, 5 x Hue bulbs, 5 MiLight RGBWW bulbs, 5 sets or lights controlled by 5 Insteon SwitchLinc dimmers and I operate all of them in 7 different scene setup from one SwitchLinc switch.

 

ISY is your friend....

......  Your imagination is the limitation.

Edited September 14, 2017 by larryllix

[paulbates]

A separate question. Are the pendant lights low voltage? Low voltage transformers can create a lot of line noise that disrupts insteon switches

 

Paul 

[zg825]

Thanks for the quick replies! I'll verify the neutral wires with electrician, I appreciate it.

 

No, we were not planning to have the pendant lights be low voltage. We do however a set of low voltage upstairs for a hallway. Is it not advised to use low voltage with this system? We liked the look of those recessed lights, but it's early enough where we can make a swap.

[oberkc]

Is it not advised to use low voltage with this system?​

Sometimes, power supplies of such systems can interfere with communications.  (Sometimes not, however.)  I have a few of those types of fixtures, and my system seems to work.  Every now and then, though, one of those does not turn on when expected.  Whether it is due to the power supplies or something else, I have never bothered to attempt to isolate.

 

My gut feel is to go ahead with your plans if you are really sold on those fixtures.  But, I would keep looking at other fixtures in case there is something you missed that you would like just as well.  Besides, do not LED bulbs have little internal power supplies?  I am not sure one can avoid them.

Edited September 14, 2017 by oberkc

[larryllix]

After owning a bunch of them and my son having a house full of them I would avoid anything using a GU10 or MR16 bulbs.

 

Very bad lighting. Bulbs are very restrictive for selection, poor efficiency, and you'll require about 4-5 times the number of fixtures to get even lighting. The fixture are very poor quality design.

 

If you use incandescent halogen  bulbs in them, the wiring will be charred to a crisp after ten years with the in-ceiling fixtures.

Edited September 14, 2017 by larryllix

[paulbates]

 Is it not advised to use low voltage with this system? We liked the look of those recessed lights, but it's early enough where we can make a swap.

 

I agree with oberkc. Another route, if you have issues with them,  is to put filters on them near the transformers. See if you get unpredictable behavior..

one being that they can be turned on remotely, but not back off

 

Paul

[zg825]

Really appreciate the advice! Just reading through the forum/wiki pages now. Took long enough to figure the system I wanted to go with, but I like the integration of zwave and insteon.

[lilyoyo1]

When I built my house, I built it as if automation would not be used and put switches in accordingly. That way should I sell it, do away with it, or technology changes; I can always change at a lower cost than with home runs or custom style setups.

 

I differ from Larryllix in that I prefer keypads. Each room has a minimum of 1 at the entry for controlling multiple things. Major rooms have 2 side by side. 1 for controlling the room and 1 status/control of various things. Some rooms have multiple keypads such as my dining room since it has multiple entrances.

 

All of the other switches are still located in the proper places but the kpl allows me to control things based off of scenes instead of individual lights.

 

For example, my family room has lamps with hue bulbs, 3 chandeliers,blinds and recessed lights. Regardless of what's on, hitting my relaxed button will turn off the recessed lights, dim the chandeliers to 15 percent, lower the blinds and change my bulb colors. Hitting my goodnight will set the recessed lights to 25%, close the blinds if they are open, turn on the steps and hallways to see to get upstairs. Everything is on a 10 minute timer and turns off by themselves. Double tapping the goodnight button does all the same but sets my bedroom upthe way I like to go to bed.

[stusviews]

Like lilyoyo1, I have KPLs all over the place. That way I can control all the lights in any particular room from one location, not just the ceiling light. Too, as our home is quite old, any room that has multiple entrys had only one switch. Not any more

[Brett]

The beautiful thing about the ISY and home automation in general is the ability to have the system handle the lighting and entertainment for you. If you design it right you don't need switches or keypads. If you have triggers you can build programs to monitor and react to those triggers which gives the system intelligence. The ISY allows for extensive integration with other systems that become triggers. Motion sensors are the most basic and easy to deploy. Other options that I employ are:

 

• APIs from my BlueIris camera system. When a camera detects motion it sets a state variable that can trigger a program to turn on lights in that area for a period of time. 
• Harmony Remote integration using polyglot. When I turn on my TV it sets the lighting scene based on the time of day and activity selected on the remote.
• DSC Alarm panel integration using NodeLink. The system knows when any exterior door is open. When it's after sunset and the back door is opened the system turns on the lights in the lanai and starts the pool pump and pool light. When the TV is turned off after a 10PM the system arms the DSC alarm panel. If the alarm is triggered the ISY sends an API call to BlueIris to begin continuous recording on all cameras until the alarm condition is disabled.
• REST interface. I have multiple RaspberryPis around the house that frequently "ping" the Bluetooth interface of our cell phones and set state variables in the ISY based on the response of the phones. The system knows who is home at any given time and can adjust to that persons preferences. When nobody is home, the system knows it and can shut things down automatically. When we arrive back at the house the system picks up the bluetooth as we pull into the driveway and turns the TV and lights back on. It also sets the nest thermostats back to cooling mode via the nest polyglot interface.
• Amazon Alexa. For the situations where you want to deviate from the program, just say what you want.

As larryllix said in a previous post, the possibilities are only limited by your imagination.

 

Enjoy...  

[G W]

The KPL is what sets Insteon apart from the rest. Every room in my house has a KPL and in my den there are nine. My bedroom has four and the garage has three.

 

There is so much you can do.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[Brett]

That's a lot of KPLs   

 

And I agree, if that's your thing, it does set Insteon apart.

 

To each his own!

[G W]

If you have ceiling fans the KPL is almost a must. And if you have 10 ceiling fans they are great.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[larryllix]

KPLs are clumbsy to use, ugly and protocol troublesome. I only use one for a combination code keypad and a garage door indicator.

 

A simple Echo can replace 10 KPLs for fan speed controls and no reading of the buttons or custom engraving is required.

 

To each his own.

[lilyoyo1]

That's true about the echo but I've found it to be much faster to hit a button than tell Alexa to do something. Besides that, what happens should there be food issues?

 

I prefer Google home and the echo to be secondary/supplemental rather than primary control.

[G W]

That's true about the echo but I've found it to be much faster to hit a button than tell Alexa to do something. Besides that, what happens should there be food issues?

 

I prefer Google home and the echo to be secondary/supplemental rather than primary control.

Whenever I have a food issue I go to the kitchen.

 

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