PhanTomiZ Posted September 18, 2017 Posted September 18, 2017 Hi, I now have many MS6 devices throughout my home (all on USB power). I also have one withing 5 feet of each of my Kwikset door locks. I'm having communication issues with one of my locks which is installed on an all metal door (garage side door). It is still very functional, but causes some error reporting from the admin console to pop up. I have created a self checking program, which is basically a loop with a time delay that queries the lock when this communication error occurs. When this program runs, it ties up the ISY and can cause delays with most of my programs. Does the Aeotec Siren stand out from the rest of the devices that offer signal repeating? Will it be a better at repeating than the MS6? PhanTomiZ
Teken Posted September 18, 2017 Posted September 18, 2017 Siren or door bell are good choices. The stand alone repeater is junk from personal testing. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
PhanTomiZ Posted September 18, 2017 Author Posted September 18, 2017 Siren or door bell are good choices. The stand alone repeater is junk from personal testing. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Ok, so it would be safe to say from your personal experience that the Siren would be a better repeater than the Multisensor 6? I thought the MS6 was doing a good job, but how is one to really know?
Teken Posted September 18, 2017 Posted September 18, 2017 Ok, so it would be safe to say from your personal experience that the Siren would be a better repeater than the Multisensor 6? I thought the MS6 was doing a good job, but how is one to really know? Simple, unplug one of the sensors and see. Here's the rub ~ Unlike Insteon there isn't a silly need to define a route / path. So if you unplug one of the sensors that defined route will remain and more than likely you will see communication issues. Even when a route is well defined or the endless silly heals, include, exclude, etc. Z-Wave is just another hobbled protocol that the consumers are willing to accept and buy. I've written about this so many times I might as well just copy and paste my replies when such topics come up! LOL . . . The greatest farce are those who truly believe Z-Wave / ZigBee are much better than Insteon. If its so great why are there thousands of threads about can't communicate, can't connect, lost connection, how many repeaters do I need, where should I place them, healing doesn't work, why do I have to exclude a product before I include / enroll a product?!? How come the ID always changes when I add and remove a product? Why does the product look and feel like it came from the dollar store . . .
Bumbershoot Posted September 18, 2017 Posted September 18, 2017 Ok, so it would be safe to say from your personal experience that the Siren would be a better repeater than the Multisensor 6? I thought the MS6 was doing a good job, but how is one to really know? From my personal experience, the Siren is a better repeater, even more so if you have a need for security. I don't know how to scientifically measure the tx or rx of these devices, the Siren range certainly appears to be quite a bit better in my application. The Multi Sensor 6 is a very capable device in it's own right. Siren node details: Mon 09/18/2017 12:19:55 : [ZW-SHOW ] ---------------------------------------------- Mon 09/18/2017 12:19:55 : [ZW-SHOW ] ZW007_1 uid=7 type=4.16.5 mid=134 tid=260 pid=80 model=0 Mon 09/18/2017 12:19:55 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x5E V2 ZWAVEPLUS_INFO Mon 09/18/2017 12:19:55 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x86 V2 VERSION Mon 09/18/2017 12:19:55 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x72 V2 MANUFACTURER_SPECIFIC Mon 09/18/2017 12:19:55 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x98 V1 SECURITY Mon 09/18/2017 12:19:55 : [ZW-SHOW ] - xEF V0 MARK Mon 09/18/2017 12:19:55 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x5A V1 DEVICE_RESET_LOCALLY Mon 09/18/2017 12:19:55 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x82 V1 HAIL Mon 09/18/2017 12:19:55 : [ZW-SHOW ] Mon 09/18/2017 12:19:55 : [ZW-SHOW ] ---------------------------------------------- Multi Sensor 6 node details: Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] ---------------------------------------------- Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] ZW009_1 uid=9 type=4.33.1 mid=134 tid=258 pid=100 model=0 Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x5E V2 ZWAVEPLUS_INFO Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x86 V2 VERSION Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x72 V2 MANUFACTURER_SPECIFIC Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x59 V1 ASSOCIATION_GRP_INFO Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x85 V2 ASSOCIATION Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x73 V1 POWERLEVEL Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x71 V3 NOTIFICATION Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x84 V2 WAKE_UP Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x80 V0 BATTERY Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x30 V0 SENSOR_BINARY Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x31 V5 SENSOR_MULTILEVEL Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x70 V1 CONFIGURATION Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x7A V2 FIRMWARE_UPDATE_MD Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - xEF V0 MARK Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x5A V0 DEVICE_RESET_LOCALLY Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] ----------------------------------------------
KeviNH Posted September 18, 2017 Posted September 18, 2017 Aeon Labs claims all Gen5 products have "up to" 150M range, listing the Siren, Doorbell, and MultiSensor 6 as containing the same "Z-Wave 500 series" chip. So all three, assuming equal power supplies, etc, should all be effectively equal as repeaters. In theory, if you didn't care which direction the light/motion sensor pointed, it'd be easier to perfectly position a MS6 in the exact orientation to get the antenna radiation pattern you desire (assuming you had access to the appropriate multi-thousand dollar test gear). The stand alone repeater is junk from personal testing. Is this the older model (FCC ID XBADSD37)? I bought mine over a year ago, making it the original model. Curiously, the newer "Range Extender 6" (XBAFT118) marketing lists compatibility with the "Z-Wave 500 series" chip, but doesn't say it actually contains a 500 series chip.
Teken Posted September 18, 2017 Posted September 18, 2017 Aeon Labs claims all Gen5 products have "up to" 150M range, listing the Siren, Doorbell, and MultiSensor 6 as containing the same "Z-Wave 500 series" chip. So all three, assuming equal power supplies, etc, should all be effectively equal as repeaters. In theory, if you didn't care which direction the light/motion sensor pointed, it'd be easier to perfectly position a MS6 in the exact orientation to get the antenna radiation pattern you desire (assuming you had access to the appropriate multi-thousand dollar test gear). Is this the older model (FCC ID XBADSD37)? I bought mine over a year ago, making it the original model. Curiously, the newer "Range Extender 6" (XBAFT118) marketing lists compatibility with the "Z-Wave 500 series" chip, but doesn't say it actually contains a 500 series chip. Hello KevinNH, The one's we tested were from both the first generation and the latest ones. Obviously, I need to qualify and give Aeon Labs a small margin of wiggle room where existing firmware may have played a role. Regardless, the proof in the pudding as they say is does it work? Having installed these exact same repeaters (before the siren and door bell came out) they never offered the fix. Having spent what seemed like endless days on healing, excluding, including, and other silly steps. These repeaters didn't offer the clients what was needed to obtain a solid connection in the network. If someone has purchased a more recent version of the same and can offer what hardware / firmware of those that do work. I would love to know because the price difference is vast between a standard repeater vs siren / door bell.
mwester Posted September 18, 2017 Posted September 18, 2017 ... The greatest farce are those who truly believe Z-Wave / ZigBee are much better than Insteon. If its so great why are there thousands of threads about can't communicate, can't connect, lost connection, how many repeaters do I need, where should I place them, healing doesn't work, why do I have to exclude a product before I include / enroll a product?!? ... Bullshit. The argument being advanced here boils down to "it's different and therefore it's worse" (yes, I've seen this baloney posted elsewhere on this forum). Once upon a time I'd have been willing to go down the list, feature-by-feature, bullet-by-bullet-point, and discuss which one was a "win" for Insteon vs Z-wave vs Zigbee, and in which circumstances if the circumstances make a difference (hint: they do, almost always). But when an argument is phrased as it is by Teken, it sort of implies that discussion is not possible. And the "arguments" that I DIDN'T quote are so far beyond bullshit that I refuse to quote them... (And here, below, you'll see Teken's raging rant in response, illustrating why discussion is not possible).
Teken Posted September 18, 2017 Posted September 18, 2017 Simple, unplug one of the sensors and see. Here's the rub ~ Unlike Insteon there isn't a silly need to define a route / path. So if you unplug one of the sensors that defined route will remain and more than likely you will see communication issues. Even when a route is well defined or the endless silly heals, include, exclude, etc. Z-Wave is just another hobbled protocol that the consumers are willing to accept and buy. I've written about this so many times I might as well just copy and paste my replies when such topics come up! LOL . . . The greatest farce are those who truly believe Z-Wave / ZigBee are much better than Insteon. If its so great why are there thousands of threads about can't communicate, can't connect, lost connection, how many repeaters do I need, where should I place them, healing doesn't work, why do I have to exclude a product before I include / enroll a product?!? How come the ID always changes when I add and remove a product? Why does the product look and feel like it came from the dollar store . . . Bullshit. The argument being advanced here boils down to "it's different and therefore it's worse" (yes, I've seen this baloney posted elsewhere on this forum). Once upon a time I'd have been willing to go down the list, feature-by-feature, bullet-by-bullet-point, and discuss which one was a "win" for Insteon vs Z-wave vs Zigbee, and in which circumstances if the circumstances make a difference (hint: they do, almost always). But when an argument is phrased as it is by Teken, it sort of implies that discussion is not possible. And the "arguments" that I DIDN'T quote are so far beyond bullshit that I refuse to quote them... (And here, below, you'll see Teken's raging rant in response, illustrating why discussion is not possible). There's no raging ~ Simply the truth of what one can expect from using another protocol. If what I wrote was in your words Bullshit feel free to address any of the items I high lighted in black. Just because your personal experience with Insteon was less than stellar doesn't change the facts I presented for Z-Wave. Having installed countless homes with Insteon, Z-Wave, ZigBee, and a mired of hybrid systems. I'm not speaking from a single user perspective like you . . . I am speaking from a deployment of hundreds of homes over the span of ten months. I can state with a high level of confidence that Z-Wave like any residential home automation protocol requires work, supporting hardware, and trouble shooting. The mere fact you haven't addressed the most simple facts of why there are 99999999999999999 threads all over the Internet about Z-Wave customers all asking the same questions regarding the need for repeaters or what has been proven to work is laughable. Why is there a need for a repeater for any home if Z-Wave is so much better and reliable than X vs Y?!? If you can't answer that basic question wheres the Bullshit?!?!?
stusviews Posted September 18, 2017 Posted September 18, 2017 I did a field test (but no actual measurements) comparing a DSD37 Range Extender, a Gen 5 siren, a ZW056 doorbell and a Gen 6 repeater. In particular, both garage doors are controlled by a pair of MIMOlite I/O devices that, on their own, are unreliable. There is a Gen 5 siren about 15' from the ISY that remained in place throughout testing. I initially tested each device by plugging them in one at a time about midway between the ISY and the garages. The DSD37 Range Extender was totally useless. All the other Aeon products worked equally well. In particular, communication was solid. I further tested by placing each device (again, one at a time) in the garage itself (furthest from the ISY). The results were consistently good.
stusviews Posted September 18, 2017 Posted September 18, 2017 Teken, mwester, Michel has had to mention more than once that miscreant posts are inappropriate for this forum. I agree. Or disagree genteelly.
Teken Posted September 18, 2017 Posted September 18, 2017 Teken, mwester, Michel has had to mention more than once that miscreant posts are inappropriate for this forum. I agree. Or disagree genteelly. I agree ~ As many will note my first and consecutive replies offered on point answers and feedback. I did not enter this thread all angry as if I stole food out of Mwesters babies mouth! Nor did I enter a thread stating this was an argument either . . . This was a conversation where another member asked for feedback and I offered the same with more insight. I do not have financial stakes in any of the protocols or hardware vendors. Nor do I receive kickbacks, fee's, or remuneration for installing any brand of hardware. Anyone can search this forum and many others that I don't take sides of who is better vs how others are superior. What I do offer is real world use, testing, installation, and results in many different home environments. If someone wants to call out something I wrote that's fine . . . But, you better be able to back it up with facts and not simply hearsay or insults saying the information I presented is Bullshit!! Lastly, anyone can search that if there has been any single person in the Insteon realm that has thrown them under the bus ~ Its Me!
stusviews Posted September 19, 2017 Posted September 19, 2017 mwester, you compromised a meaningful discussion with the first word of your post (see post #8 ). BTW, I do enjoy your expository posts. Teken, the same first word indicates that a fruitful discussion is not possible, so there's really no need to respond, other than self-esteem. Your fine reputation attests to the validity of your knowledgeable opinion.
PhanTomiZ Posted September 19, 2017 Author Posted September 19, 2017 Can't quote everyone, so I'll just respond... I will unplug the closest MS6 to the offending door lock and see if the communications worsen. (I did think of this, but didn't do it) I do prefer Insteon over Z-Wave. Unfortunately the devices I really wanted were not offered by Insteon. One thing I find annoying with the Z-wave devices is the appearance of phantom nodes in the admin console. I'm currently hiding them in a separate folder out of the way. Another, is the hoops I have to jump with programs to get Z-Wave devices in Scenes when using Insteon Keypads. The devices I currently use are: EcoVent Kwikset Locks MS6 (Love having multiple sensors in one small package that works relatively well) Aeotec Smart Switch (Love the ability of having real time consumption in Watts, Amps, Volts and Total Power Used). I only have 2 of 5 that are functional. GE 3 way switch GE Dimmer Switch I had plans on purchasing some sort of specific repeater, but have no use for a Siren or a Doorbell. Saying this, I will probably order the Siren and never use the noisy thing for other than a repeater. My concern with the Siren is having it go off at the wrong time for no reason. I can handle a light going on or off at the wrong time, but not a Siren that could wake up the whole family and possibly the neighbors. This would not bode well with the WAF . You see, my programs don't always work when first I write them. I'll write a program only to find out weeks later that I missed some condition . Anyhow, thanks for all the responses, PhanTomiZ
stusviews Posted September 19, 2017 Posted September 19, 2017 I have two sirens and two doorbells. I do use the doorbells as doorbells, but the sirens are repeaters only. I never had a siren turn on, never ever. My tests indicate that the Gen 6 repeater is as effective as either the siren or the doorbell (see post #10). And it costs less
danbutter Posted September 19, 2017 Posted September 19, 2017 I have found some much cheaper devices that do wonders as repeaters. The homeseer/dragontech plugin modules: https://shop.homeseer.com/collections/lighting/products/homeseer-hs-pa100-z-wave-plus-wireless-appliance-module?variant=23040717254 (I have only used the on/off version) and the monoprice plugin module: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15654&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIu5zIupKx1gIVgUCGCh2QPgzjEAQYAyABEgK7Q_D_BwE This one has energy monitoring also. Not really sure of a use case for the USB charger though. Anyway I have used both of these in a detached garage that has aluminum siding to repeat for my kwikset lock out there and they work great. The homeseer/dragontech doesn't like temps below about 20 degrees F though. This winter will show how the monoprice does.
DaveF Posted September 19, 2017 Posted September 19, 2017 From my personal experience, the Siren is a better repeater, even more so if you have a need for security. I don't know how to scientifically measure the tx or rx of these devices, the Siren range certainly appears to be quite a bit better in my application. The Multi Sensor 6 is a very capable device in it's own right. Siren node details: Mon 09/18/2017 12:19:55 : [ZW-SHOW ] ---------------------------------------------- Mon 09/18/2017 12:19:55 : [ZW-SHOW ] ZW007_1 uid=7 type=4.16.5 mid=134 tid=260 pid=80 model=0 Mon 09/18/2017 12:19:55 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x5E V2 ZWAVEPLUS_INFO Mon 09/18/2017 12:19:55 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x86 V2 VERSION Mon 09/18/2017 12:19:55 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x72 V2 MANUFACTURER_SPECIFIC Mon 09/18/2017 12:19:55 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x98 V1 SECURITY Mon 09/18/2017 12:19:55 : [ZW-SHOW ] - xEF V0 MARK Mon 09/18/2017 12:19:55 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x5A V1 DEVICE_RESET_LOCALLY Mon 09/18/2017 12:19:55 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x82 V1 HAIL Mon 09/18/2017 12:19:55 : [ZW-SHOW ] Mon 09/18/2017 12:19:55 : [ZW-SHOW ] ---------------------------------------------- Multi Sensor 6 node details: Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] ---------------------------------------------- Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] ZW009_1 uid=9 type=4.33.1 mid=134 tid=258 pid=100 model=0 Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x5E V2 ZWAVEPLUS_INFO Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x86 V2 VERSION Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x72 V2 MANUFACTURER_SPECIFIC Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x59 V1 ASSOCIATION_GRP_INFO Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x85 V2 ASSOCIATION Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x73 V1 POWERLEVEL Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x71 V3 NOTIFICATION Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x84 V2 WAKE_UP Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x80 V0 BATTERY Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x30 V0 SENSOR_BINARY Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x31 V5 SENSOR_MULTILEVEL Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x70 V1 CONFIGURATION Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x7A V2 FIRMWARE_UPDATE_MD Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - xEF V0 MARK Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x5A V0 DEVICE_RESET_LOCALLY Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] ---------------------------------------------- I noticed that the Multisensor 6 is not reporting as a secure device. Could that be impacting how it is repeating things in the network? The engineering spec sheet on aeon labs site shows how to include it as a secure device: https://aeotec.freshdesk.com/helpdesk/attachments/6052990305
PhanTomiZ Posted September 19, 2017 Author Posted September 19, 2017 Unplugged my closest MS6 in the garage which is about 8' from the Kwikset lock. My ISY is about 20' from the lock going through two walls. The lock choked and puked. Pretty much non-functional; although I don't recall having problems with it before I installed the MS6. I now believe this device to be a good repeater, but how is this measured? When the MS6 is powered and functioning, the lock has communication faults about every 3 days or so, but is still fully functional, of course with the help of some maintenance programs. The real test would be to purchase the Gen 6 Repeater or an Siren and install it where the MS6 resides and verify that communication faults stop entirely. PhanTomiZ
PhanTomiZ Posted September 19, 2017 Author Posted September 19, 2017 From my personal experience, the Siren is a better repeater, even more so if you have a need for security. I don't know how to scientifically measure the tx or rx of these devices, the Siren range certainly appears to be quite a bit better in my application. The Multi Sensor 6 is a very capable device in it's own right. Siren node details: Mon 09/18/2017 12:19:55 : [ZW-SHOW ] ---------------------------------------------- Mon 09/18/2017 12:19:55 : [ZW-SHOW ] ZW007_1 uid=7 type=4.16.5 mid=134 tid=260 pid=80 model=0 Mon 09/18/2017 12:19:55 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x5E V2 ZWAVEPLUS_INFO Mon 09/18/2017 12:19:55 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x86 V2 VERSION Mon 09/18/2017 12:19:55 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x72 V2 MANUFACTURER_SPECIFIC Mon 09/18/2017 12:19:55 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x98 V1 SECURITY Mon 09/18/2017 12:19:55 : [ZW-SHOW ] - xEF V0 MARK Mon 09/18/2017 12:19:55 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x5A V1 DEVICE_RESET_LOCALLY Mon 09/18/2017 12:19:55 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x82 V1 HAIL Mon 09/18/2017 12:19:55 : [ZW-SHOW ] Mon 09/18/2017 12:19:55 : [ZW-SHOW ] ---------------------------------------------- Multi Sensor 6 node details: Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] ---------------------------------------------- Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] ZW009_1 uid=9 type=4.33.1 mid=134 tid=258 pid=100 model=0 Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x5E V2 ZWAVEPLUS_INFO Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x86 V2 VERSION Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x72 V2 MANUFACTURER_SPECIFIC Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x59 V1 ASSOCIATION_GRP_INFO Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x85 V2 ASSOCIATION Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x73 V1 POWERLEVEL Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x71 V3 NOTIFICATION Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x84 V2 WAKE_UP Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x80 V0 BATTERY Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x30 V0 SENSOR_BINARY Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x31 V5 SENSOR_MULTILEVEL Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x70 V1 CONFIGURATION Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x7A V2 FIRMWARE_UPDATE_MD Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - xEF V0 MARK Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] - x5A V0 DEVICE_RESET_LOCALLY Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] Mon 09/18/2017 12:23:18 : [ZW-SHOW ] ---------------------------------------------- I noticed that the Multisensor 6 is not reporting as a secure device. Could that be impacting how it is repeating things in the network? The engineering spec sheet on aeon labs site shows how to include it as a secure device: https://aeotec.freshdesk.com/helpdesk/attachments/6052990305 How do you know that it's not reporting as a secure device? x98 V1 SECURITY? None of my 6 MS6s show this Security. Most have the V1.08 Firmware updated via the Aeotec Z-Stick. When updated I opted for the secure setting. At first glance, Zwaveplus_info, Version, Association grp info, Association and powerlevel are different Here is my node information which is pretty much identical to all 6 MS6 : Tue 09/19/2017 10:56:51 AM : [ZW-SHOW ] ---------------------------------------------- Tue 09/19/2017 10:56:51 AM : [ZW-SHOW ] ZW033_1 uid=33 type=4.33.1 mid=134 tid=258 pid=100 model=0 Tue 09/19/2017 10:56:51 AM : [ZW-SHOW ] - x5E V0 ZWAVEPLUS_INFO Tue 09/19/2017 10:56:51 AM : [ZW-SHOW ] - x86 V0 VERSION Tue 09/19/2017 10:56:51 AM : [ZW-SHOW ] - x72 V2 MANUFACTURER_SPECIFIC Tue 09/19/2017 10:56:51 AM : [ZW-SHOW ] - x59 V0 ASSOCIATION_GRP_INFO Tue 09/19/2017 10:56:51 AM : [ZW-SHOW ] - x85 V2 ASSOCIATION Tue 09/19/2017 10:56:51 AM : [ZW-SHOW ] - x73 V0 POWERLEVEL Tue 09/19/2017 10:56:51 AM : [ZW-SHOW ] - x71 V3 NOTIFICATION Tue 09/19/2017 10:56:51 AM : [ZW-SHOW ] - x84 V2 WAKE_UP Tue 09/19/2017 10:56:51 AM : [ZW-SHOW ] - x80 V0 BATTERY Tue 09/19/2017 10:56:51 AM : [ZW-SHOW ] - x30 V0 SENSOR_BINARY Tue 09/19/2017 10:56:51 AM : [ZW-SHOW ] - x31 V5 SENSOR_MULTILEVEL Tue 09/19/2017 10:56:51 AM : [ZW-SHOW ] - x70 V1 CONFIGURATION Tue 09/19/2017 10:56:51 AM : [ZW-SHOW ] - x7A V2 FIRMWARE_UPDATE_MD Tue 09/19/2017 10:56:51 AM : [ZW-SHOW ] - x5A V0 DEVICE_RESET_LOCALLY Tue 09/19/2017 10:56:51 AM : [ZW-SHOW ] - xEF V0 MARK Tue 09/19/2017 10:56:51 AM : [ZW-SHOW ] sensorType= 1 scaleMask= 3 defScale=0 Tue 09/19/2017 10:56:51 AM : [ZW-SHOW ] sensorType= 3 scaleMask= 2 defScale=1 Tue 09/19/2017 10:56:51 AM : [ZW-SHOW ] sensorType= 5 scaleMask= 1 defScale=0 Tue 09/19/2017 10:56:51 AM : [ZW-SHOW ] sensorType= 27 scaleMask= 1 defScale=0 Tue 09/19/2017 10:56:51 AM : [ZW-SHOW ] Tue 09/19/2017 10:56:51 AM : [ZW-SHOW ] ---------------------------------------------- PhanTomiZ
Bumbershoot Posted September 19, 2017 Posted September 19, 2017 I noticed that the Multisensor 6 is not reporting as a secure device. Could that be impacting how it is repeating things in the network? The engineering spec sheet on aeon labs site shows how to include it as a secure device: https://aeotec.freshdesk.com/helpdesk/attachments/6052990305 Thanks for the correction. Understand that my observations are completely nonempirical. I came to my conclusion by using a Multi Sensor (USB powered) as a repeater for non-secure devices (ceiling fan switches). When I added a Z-Wave door lock in the garage, I replaced the Multi Sensor with a Siren placed in a similar (within 10 feet) location, and the reliability of the connection to the non-secure devices improved, though it wasn't perfect. I've since moved the Multi Sensor closer to the fan switches and they now perform flawlessly, and I've added additional secure repeaters in my garage (garage door openers) and my secure door lock is also flawless. Without further testing, I couldn't say of the security layer would help, though it's hard to imagine that its presence would somehow boost transmit power. Once I added the Siren and otherwise built out my Z-Wave mesh, my Z-Wave network has become, in my opinion, production quality.
PhanTomiZ Posted September 19, 2017 Author Posted September 19, 2017 Thanks for the correction. Understand that my observations are completely nonempirical. I came to my conclusion by using a Multi Sensor (USB powered) as a repeater for non-secure devices (ceiling fan switches). When I added a Z-Wave door lock in the garage, I replaced the Multi Sensor with a Siren placed in a similar (within 10 feet) location, and the reliability of the connection to the non-secure devices improved, though it wasn't perfect. I've since moved the Multi Sensor closer to the fan switches and they now perform flawlessly, and I've added additional secure repeaters in my garage (garage door openers) and my secure door lock is also flawless. Without further testing, I couldn't say of the security layer would help, though it's hard to imagine that its presence would somehow boost transmit power. Once I added the Siren and otherwise built out my Z-Wave mesh, my Z-Wave network has become, in my opinion, production quality. How much closer to the fan switch did you place the Multisensor?
Teken Posted September 19, 2017 Posted September 19, 2017 Unplugged my closest MS6 in the garage which is about 8' from the Kwikset lock. My ISY is about 20' from the lock going through two walls. The lock choked and puked. Pretty much non-functional; although I don't recall having problems with it before I installed the MS6. I now believe this device to be a good repeater, but how is this measured? When the MS6 is powered and functioning, the lock has communication faults about every 3 days or so, but is still fully functional, of course with the help of some maintenance programs. The real test would be to purchase the Gen 6 Repeater or an Siren and install it where the MS6 resides and verify that communication faults stop entirely. PhanTomiZ I'll be quite honest with you once the ISY Series Controller is upgraded to support the 500 Series chipset. The bulk of these odd issues will be reduced in my view given the vast improvements the Gen 5 offers. Regardless, your test is what I expected and as I noted early on a heal to determine a new route is required. There is no such thing as routing in Insteon topology and thus that extra step / hindrance isn't present or required. Another thing to consider is the whole neighbor association and if the Z-Wave network displays such. From personal experience this too was a red herring for me and many others because this assumed devices were added in to or *Seen* as secure devices. As you're probably keenly aware none of the steps I asked above is something that takes mere seconds. Regardless, what I've found is battery operated devices which advertise USB power to mimic a 120 VAC device is a hit and miss. I don't have empirical proof but believe lots of these devices have firmware that doesn't always perform as expected when plugged into USB power. It appears to me anyways these devices still go to sleep and that window where something is supposed to *Beam* or what ever phrase isn't completed as smoothly as one would expect from the Advert. Bottom line ~ A 120 VAC siren / door bell will offer that proven Z-Wave mesh.
Bumbershoot Posted September 19, 2017 Posted September 19, 2017 How much closer to the fan switch did you place the Multisensor? Probably 12 feet now, but there's an interior wall between the sensor and the switch. The communications seems unaffected by the wall.
stusviews Posted September 19, 2017 Posted September 19, 2017 If the repeater is not meant for security, then it won't improve communication to a lock.
ES1400 Posted October 23, 2017 Posted October 23, 2017 Stu, I was starting to get a z wave configuration defined until you said the repeater must be meant for security to support a lock and assuming you are suggesting a different repeater is required to support a thermostat. My takeaway from the above threads the Aeotec Range Extender 6 is as good as any range extending device. It's not clear this extender supports both Secured and Non Secured Z wave. The Aeotec documentation isn't clear. What I want to build is a z wave link for a door lock and a thermostat supported by my UD994i/IR 4.6.2 with the Z wave interface installed. I'm almost sure I will need a repeater base on what others have said. Before I spend money on a thermostat and a door lock I want to better understand the configuration and the range extenders. Thanks for any thoughts in advance ES1400
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