Garage Door Status Reverses on its own

[thirdwaver]

I've got an ioLinc on my garage door wired with a magnetic sensor.  The sensor is connected to N/O and Com and the relay is connected to GND and S.  I followed the tutorial here to set it up.  The switchlincs are working fine.  Both triggering the door and showing its status.

 

The issue is that at 3am, the system ISY Query program runs and my garage door goes from thinking it's closed to thinking it's open.  That's a real problem for me because I have programs that do things like flash lights and send alerts to my phone when that door is open while I'm in bed.  So at 3am, lights start flashing, etc.  Once I open and close the door, things return to normal again until 3am the next night.

 

I'm assuming it isn't picking up the "reverse trigger" setting at 3am.  Any idea why the system query would not honor that setting?  Is this a bug or do I have an issue on my end?

[oberkc]

I believe your assumption is correct.  The query does not recognize the "reverse" trigger setting.  Whether a bug, insteon limitation, or design choice, I don't know.  Regardless, I doubt that this is going to get fixed any time soon.

 

Normal solutions are to replace the sensor with NC type.  Alternatively, one could remount the sensor such that it is in "normal" position when the door is open, but this is not ideal, in my mind.

[Brian H]

The Query sees the real sensor status and not the reverse trigger status.

Most replace the magnetic switch with a proper set of contacts. When this happens.

 

This started happening when Smarthome cheapened up the Garage Door Kits contents.

The original magnetic switch has both a NC and NO set of contacts. So you did not have to use the Trigger Reversed setting.

https://www.smarthome.com/seco-larm-sm-226l-3-magnetic-garage-door-contact-switch.html

Edited November 7, 2017 by Brian H

[larryllix]

It's a bug in the wiki instructions. This should have been corrected  a long time ago and never posted in the first place.

 

Remove the checkmark and re-write your programs to make the logic correct.

[stusviews]

This is a common problem (with the ISY) an no amount of programming can correct it. Follow Brian's suggestion and replace the magnetic switch.

[MWareman]

It’s called ‘trigger reverse’ - not ‘sensor reverse’. It only reverses the trigger the iolinc sends - not the query. Dumb SmartLabs decision if you ask me (it’s not an ISY thing).

 

Change the wiring to NC and remove the trigger reverse.

[larryllix]

This is a common problem (with the ISY) an no amount of programming can correct it. Follow Brian's suggestion and replace the magnetic switch.

The switch never needs to be replaced. Just change the trigger logic to the opposite polarity. This isn't a security system with secure detection lines.

If the trigger reverse option is removed, the daily query will not cause an erroneous status. I can use either contact polarity in a program and no difference will ever be detected.

Edited November 8, 2017 by larryllix

[thirdwaver]

Ok here's what I did:  I moved the wire on the ioLinc from NO to NC and then went into the options and unchecked the Trigger reverse as MWareman suggested.  I suspect this will solve the 3am problem (I'll check tomorrow).  But it caused a new problem for me.  Now the button on my switchlinc that I linked to the status of the door are lit up when the door is closed and un-lit when the door is open.  I was hoping for the opposite (as it was before I unchecked the "Trigger Reverse" box.  Is this an unsolvable conundrum?  I'm willing to buy the more robust contact that Brian suggested if that's the best fix.  Thanks for all your help, everyone.

[stusviews]

What you experienced is the expected result. That's probably why you selected the reverse mode in the first place. Solution: get the better magnetic contact switch.

[larryllix]

Ok here's what I did:  I moved the wire on the ioLinc from NO to NC and then went into the options and unchecked the Trigger reverse as MWareman suggested.  I suspect this will solve the 3am problem (I'll check tomorrow).  But it caused a new problem for me.  Now the button on my switchlinc that I linked to the status of the door are lit up when the door is closed and un-lit when the door is open.  I was hoping for the opposite (as it was before I unchecked the "Trigger Reverse" box.  Is this an unsolvable conundrum?  I'm willing to buy the more robust contact that Brian suggested if that's the best fix.  Thanks for all your help, everyone.

Now the LED indicates the door is closed. Is that a problem?

Edited November 9, 2017 by larryllix

[oberkc]

It sounds as if you use a scene to control the KPL button.  If you really don't want to swap out the sensor as many have suggested, you will need to remove the scene and use a program to control the KPL button.

[Teken]

My $0.00000000001 at some point there will be a failure in the system. Doing it right the first go round using the correct sensor will 100% solve the current problem and avoid future problems when programming and trouble shooting arise.

 

Memory is short in a years time never mind five years later!

 

There is zero benefit following the current path while a cheap effective solution costs a mere $2~10.00 for the correct sensor.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mmb]

Interesting set of posts.  This is one of the first programs I wrote years ago and I have never experienced random door opening or reversals.

 

I actually have two programs, one for monitoring and another that actually triggers the relay.  The first program turns on the indoor lights and sends an email notification as well.  The second program is set to disabled but still runs when called explicitly by the monitoring program.

[Brian H]

Did you Garage Door Kit have the original NC and NO contact magnetic switch? That you didn't have to use the reverse sensor function?

[mmb]

Did you Garage Door Kit have the original NC and NO contact magnetic switch? That you didn't have to use the reverse sensor function?

It's been so long I had to look.  I remember I ordered the kit and it came with the magnetic contact - grey and about 4 or 5 in long installed at the top of the door. 

 

The only options I used were Momentary A (2 sec) and LED on Tx.  I'd have to get a ladder to confirm NO or NC.

[MWareman]

Ok here's what I did: I moved the wire on the ioLinc from NO to NC and then went into the options and unchecked the Trigger reverse as MWareman suggested. I suspect this will solve the 3am problem (I'll check tomorrow). But it caused a new problem for me. Now the button on my switchlinc that I linked to the status of the door are lit up when the door is closed and un-lit when the door is open. I was hoping for the opposite (as it was before I unchecked the "Trigger Reverse" box. Is this an unsolvable conundrum? I'm willing to buy the more robust contact that Brian suggested if that's the best fix. Thanks for all your help, everyone.

I suggested changing the magnetic sensor rather than the iolinc connection (sorry if it was not clear). That’s the only way to solve the light status and not have trigger reverse on.

 

Alternatively, drive your light scene from a program that the iolinc triggers, and leave your sensor wired to the NC connector with trigger reverse disabled.

[stusviews]

Now the LED indicates the door is closed. Is that a problem?

 

I consider a serious problem. If the concern is to be made aware that the garage door was left open, and I suspect that's what most users want, and the LED is lit only when the garage door is closed, then it's really difficult to notice something that isn't there, to wit, an unlit keypad button.

[thirdwaver]

Yeah.  Those of you who predicted it wouldn't solve my problem were correct.  I got a whole new problem which was that my relay stayed closed which made my local control of the door not work.  I switched it all back and at least I'm at the spot I was at at the beginning of the post.  I have ordered the more robust garage door switch with NO and NC wires tonight and I suspect it will solve the problem.  I sure appreciate everyone's feedback and suggestions.  When it shows up, and I get it installed, I'll post an update here for posterity.

[larryllix]

I consider a serious problem. If the concern is to be made aware that the garage door was left open, and I suspect that's what most users want, and the LED is lit only when the garage door is closed, then it's really difficult to notice something that isn't there, to wit, an unlit keypad button.

I was incorrectly thinking he was referring to the LED on the IOLinc.My bad there.

 

Still not a problem. Consider the LED a closed door indicator and look for it to be OFF, or  reverse the Scene operation using a program if necessary.

[stusviews]

I was incorrectly thinking he was referring to the LED on the IOLinc.My bad there.

 

Still not a problem. Consider the LED a closed door indicator and look for it to be OFF, or  reverse the Scene operation using a program if necessary.

 

As I indicated, Off is difficult to spot, On is considerably more noticeable. It's just hard to see something that's not there.

[thirdwaver]

Just for posterity on this forum, the new switch arrived and I installed it today. I connected the red and black wires and everything began working as I wanted. Thanks for the help everyone!

[ritchcc]

Just for posterity on this forum, the new switch arrived and I installed it today. I connected the red and black wires and everything began working as I wanted. Thanks for the help everyone!

Just for my own sanity here thirdwaver, your saying you installed a new sensor switch? The one mounted on the floor with the flex tubing correct?

[thirdwaver]

Just for my own sanity here thirdwaver, your saying you installed a new sensor switch? The one mounted on the floor with the flex tubing correct?

That is correct.

[kfrazack]

I know this is an old topic but I just wanted to clarify a few things. 

On 11/7/2017 at 1:24 AM, thirdwaver said:

 The sensor is connected to N/O and Com and the relay is connected to GND and S

I'm not sure if this is an typo on the OP's part, but the sensor is supposed to be connected to GND and S and the relay connected to N/O and Com. The S is for S(ense). I was also confused about this as people kept talking about NO and NC switches/sensors and there are NO and NC on the device. But they are different things entirely. The NO and NC on the device refer to the state of the linc. It will either be hooked to a device to keep it normally open or normally closed (like a sprinkler valve). BUT, the switch/sensor is SENSING a normally open or normally closed switch/sensor. 

I recently got the iolinc garage kit and it came already hooked up with the switch connected to the GND and S and the other pair of wires connected to the NO and COM. The instructions were to connect the other end of the NO/COM wires to the garage door. Trigger reverse in ISY is checked. It has worked but created the issue noted above with the 3am query switching the status from closed to open. But it only happened the first night, never again. And it has not affected the actual door opening. I ordered the NC/NO switch from Amazon and will install later.

[MWareman]

Trigger reverse in ISY is checked. 

That almost always causes issues.

If you have not disabled the 3am “Query All”, you will get the state reversing at this time. This is because trigger reverse causes notifications from the sensor triggering to be reversed, but the answer to a query will not be reversed.

Of course, you can disable the 3am query. But then devices can get out of sync and will not get get synced up until the device is triggered.