No devices discovered using v3

[stusviews]

Perhaps I don't understand your difficulty. All of my lights are controlled by scenes and are named "light," and are controlled by scenes. Alexa has no difficulty controlling those scenes.

 

I especially don't get you last sentence. The portal doesn't show anything as a light, only as a device, scene or program. Or do you mean the smartphone app which shows keypads and switchlincs as light bulbs under the devices tab? Also, not all scenes control lights, so why should they appear as lights? And what and where is the "discovery payload?"

[Goose66]

Perhaps I don't understand your difficulty. All of my lights are controlled by scenes and are named "light," and are controlled by scenes. Alexa has no difficulty controlling those scenes.

 

I especially don't get you last sentence. The portal doesn't show anything as a light, only as a device, scene or program. Or do you mean the smartphone app which shows keypads and switchlincs as light bulbs under the devices tab? Also, not all scenes control lights, so why should they appear as lights? And what and where is the "discovery payload?"

 

As to your first point, as you have pointed out ad nauseum, you are using multiple accounts, one for each Alexa device. Not everyone wants to do that for a variety of reasons. The new "implicit targeting" feature removes that need by allowing the Alexa device to use a generic term like "lights" to refer to all light devices in the Smart Home Group that contains that Alexa device. In this way, you can say "Alexa, lights off" to any Alexa device and it can turn off all lights in that room without having to have each Alexa device configured for a separate account and losing the other functionality that comes from having a single account (e.g., drop in, multi-room music, single source for lists, calendars, flash briefings, etc.).

 

As to your second question, I am speaking in the context of how the ISY Smart Home Skill operates. In response to a spoken request or user interaction with the Alexa app, the Alexa service requests discovery of devices from the ISY Skill. The ISY Skill returns a "discovery payload" message that enumerates the devices and scenes (referred to in the API as "endpoints") supported by the ISY along with capabilities and other attributes for each. The devices and scenes returned are the ones setup in the Portal for Alexa connectivity. In fact, if you specify two or more spoken names for a device or scene, the portal ISY Skill will return two or more endpoints for that device or scene, each with a separate spoken name.

 

In the v3 API, one of the attributes in the discovery payload for each endpoint is a displayCategory attribute. This has a value of "LIGHT," "SCENE,_TRIGGER," "THERMOSTAT," "DOOR," "SWITCH," "CAMERA," etc. This is how the Alexa app decides what iconography to display in the Alexa app for the endpoint and on what tab it will appear. It seems that the "implicit targeting" feature also relies on this attribute to decide which devices in a Smart Home Group to turn off when you say "Alexa, lights off." Only the endpoints categorized as "LIGHT" will be turned off. However, as I pointed out before, for us Insteon users, most of our light endpoints are controlled by Insteon Scenes in order to keep multi-switch circuits and/or KPL buttons synced with the status of the light. So, for Insteon users, the "implicit targeting" feature is pretty useless, unless we can get the new ISY Smart Home Skill v3  (implemented by UDI) to categorize these scenes as LIGHTS in the discovery payload. 

 

I realize not every scene is for lights. That is why I mentioned a few posts up that the ideal solution would be to provide a dropdown box in the portal that would allow the user to tell the ISY Smart Home Skill what category each device or scene they add represents so that they could get the best Alexa Smart Home functionality possible.

Edited November 28, 2017 by kingwr

[stusviews]

As to your first point, as you have pointed out ad nauseum, you are using multiple accounts, one for each Alexa device. Not everyone wants to do that for a variety of reasons. The new "implicit targeting" feature removes that need by allowing the Alexa device to use a generic term like "lights" to refer to all light devices in the Smart Home Group that contains that Alexa device. In this way, you can say "Alexa, lights off" to any Alexa device and it can turn off all lights in that room without having to have each Alexa device configured for a separate account and losing the other functionality that comes from having a single account (e.g., drop in, multi-room music, single source for lists, calendars, flash briefings, etc.).

 

v.2 can do that now.

 

As to your second question, I am speaking in the context of how the ISY Smart Home Skill operates. In response to a spoken request or user interaction with the Alexa app, the Alexa service requests discovery of devices from the ISY Skill. The ISY Skill returns a "discovery payload" message that enumerates the devices and scenes (referred to in the API as "endpoints") supported by the ISY along with capabilities and other attributes for each. The devices and scenes returned are the ones setup in the Portal for Alexa connectivity. In fact, if you specify two or more spoken names for a device or scene, the portal ISY Skill will return two or more endpoints for that device or scene, each with a separate spoken name

 

v.2 can do that now.

 

In the v3 API, one of the attributes in the discovery payload for each endpoint is a displayCategory attribute. This has a value of "LIGHT," "SCENE,_TRIGGER," "THERMOSTAT," "DOOR," "SWITCH," "CAMERA," etc. This is how the Alexa app decides what iconography to display in the Alexa app for the endpoint and on what tab it will appear. It seems that the "implicit targeting" feature also relies on this attribute to decide which devices in a Smart Home Group to turn off when you say "Alexa, lights off." Only the endpoints categorized as "LIGHT" will be turned off. However, as I pointed out before, for us Insteon users, most of our light endpoints are controlled by Insteon Scenes in order to keep multi-switch circuits and/or KPL buttons synced with the status of the light. So, for Insteon users, the "implicit targeting" feature is pretty useless, unless we can get the new ISY Smart Home Skill v3  (implemented by UDI) to categorize these scenes as LIGHTS in the discovery payload.

 

That's my concern. In the Amazon Alexa smartphone Routines, the Off command is available only for devices. Scenes can be turned on, but not off. And groups don't even appear.

[Goose66]

v.2 can do that now.

 

Can you explain how to get different Alexa devices tied to a single Amazon account to turn on or off different groups of ISY devices or scenes when you say "Alexa, lights off" while using the v2 ISY Skill? I can't figure it out without using the Smart Home Groups and the "implicit targeting" feature that is only enabled by the v3 ISY Smart Home Skill.

 

That's my concern. In the Amazon Alexa smartphone Routines, the Off command is available only for devices. Scenes can be turned on, but not off. And groups don't even appear.

 

Then we agree - it would be beneficial to allow users in the ISY Portal to select the classification for their devices and scenes in order to get the most functionality out of the Alexa Smart Home service. The question still stands for Benoit: Can this be added to the Portal and ISY Smart Home Skill v3?

Edited November 28, 2017 by kingwr

[bmercier]

The question still stands for Benoit: Can this be added to the Portal and ISY Smart Home Skill v3?

 

Yes, this is coming soon.

 

Benoit

[Goose66]

Yes, this is coming soon.

 

Benoit

 

Great to hear!

[MWareman]

Yes, this is coming soon.

 

Benoit

Possible for Google Home as well?

 

I ran into a similar issue where Home distinguishes between lights and scenes. Since most of my scenes are single or pairs of lights, I’d like to be able to have he Portal optionally report most scenes as the device type of ‘Light’.

 

Thanks!

[Goose66]

Possible for Google Home as well?

 

But Alexa Smart Home Skill first!

[giomania]

Should this thread be renamed based on how the discussion has evolved?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[toflaherty]

As to your first point, as you have pointed out ad nauseum, you are using multiple accounts, one for each Alexa device. Not everyone wants to do that for a variety of reasons. The new "implicit targeting" feature removes that need by allowing the Alexa device to use a generic term like "lights" to refer to all light devices in the Smart Home Group that contains that Alexa device. In this way, you can say "Alexa, lights off" to any Alexa device and it can turn off all lights in that room without having to have each Alexa device configured for a separate account and losing the other functionality that comes from having a single account (e.g., drop in, multi-room music, single source for lists, calendars, flash briefings, etc.).

 

As to your second question, I am speaking in the context of how the ISY Smart Home Skill operates. In response to a spoken request or user interaction with the Alexa app, the Alexa service requests discovery of devices from the ISY Skill. The ISY Skill returns a "discovery payload" message that enumerates the devices and scenes (referred to in the API as "endpoints") supported by the ISY along with capabilities and other attributes for each. The devices and scenes returned are the ones setup in the Portal for Alexa connectivity. In fact, if you specify two or more spoken names for a device or scene, the portal ISY Skill will return two or more endpoints for that device or scene, each with a separate spoken name.

 

In the v3 API, one of the attributes in the discovery payload for each endpoint is a displayCategory attribute. This has a value of "LIGHT," "SCENE,_TRIGGER," "THERMOSTAT," "DOOR," "SWITCH," "CAMERA," etc. This is how the Alexa app decides what iconography to display in the Alexa app for the endpoint and on what tab it will appear. It seems that the "implicit targeting" feature also relies on this attribute to decide which devices in a Smart Home Group to turn off when you say "Alexa, lights off." Only the endpoints categorized as "LIGHT" will be turned off. However, as I pointed out before, for us Insteon users, most of our light endpoints are controlled by Insteon Scenes in order to keep multi-switch circuits and/or KPL buttons synced with the status of the light. So, for Insteon users, the "implicit targeting" feature is pretty useless, unless we can get the new ISY Smart Home Skill v3 (implemented by UDI) to categorize these scenes as LIGHTS in the discovery payload.

 

I realize not every scene is for lights. That is why I mentioned a few posts up that the ideal solution would be to provide a dropdown box in the portal that would allow the user to tell the ISY Smart Home Skill what category each device or scene they add represents so that they could get the best Alexa Smart Home functionality possible.

Kingwr, thanks. You have communicated exactly all the same issues I am encountering when going to v3. I don't really have any lights that I would control without a scene due to kpl sync issues. For now, v2 works a lot better for me. The only thing missing in v2 is the ability to generically say turn on the lights in a room without saying the room name. V3 lost a lot of functionality for mw until there is an ability to tell alexa that a scene is a light.

 

Sent from my LG-H915 using Tapatalk

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello everyone,

 

Thanks so very much for the lively debate and feedback on V3: this is precisely what we needed to perfect the solution especially to overcome the constraining features of V3 APIs. As always, Benoit is on top of everything and we should have a more flexible solution very soon.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[JBHorne]

Should this thread be renamed based on how the discussion has evolved?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

"Evolved"? You mean "hijacked"?

[stusviews]

Can you explain how to get different Alexa devices tied to a single Amazon account to turn on or off different groups of ISY devices or scenes when you say "Alexa, lights off" while using the v2 ISY Skill? I can't figure it out without using the Smart Home Groups and the "implicit targeting" feature that is only enabled by the v3 ISY Smart Home Skill.

 

I don't. I do use multiple accounts.

[bmercier]

Possible for Google Home as well?

 

 

Yes.

 

Presently, scenes/programs/state vars are exposed as switches.

 

The next update will allow you expose scenes/programs/state vars as either a switch or a light.

 

Benoit

[stusviews]

As to your first point, as you have pointed out ad nauseum, you are using multiple accounts, one for each Alexa device. Not everyone wants to do that for a variety of reasons. The new "implicit targeting" feature removes that need by allowing the Alexa device to use a generic term like "lights" to refer to all light devices in the Smart Home Group that contains that Alexa device. In this way, you can say "Alexa, lights off" to any Alexa device and it can turn off all lights in that room without having to have each Alexa device configured for a separate account and losing the other functionality that comes from having a single account (e.g., drop in, multi-room music, single source for lists, calendars, flash briefings, etc.).

 

I'll continue to mention it whenever the subject comes up for those who want to use the same term in each of separate rooms. Sure, I can have Alexa control all lights by placing them in a Group. I can also do that using a scene. But, without multiple  accounts, I cannot use the same expression in different rooms and have only the device (e.g., light, fan, table lamp, floor lamp, etc.) in that particular room respond.

 

Thus, "Alexa, turn on the light," turns on only the bedroom light when I'm in the bedroom. An identical command issued from the living room turns on only the living room light. Ditto for the kitchen, dining room and media room. That cannot currently be accomplished using a single account, not even with v.3.

[Goose66]

That cannot currently be accomplished using a single account, not even with v.3.

 

That's incorrect. It can be accomplished with a single account using v.3 with individual devices now, and with scenes on the next iteration of the v.3 Skill.

[stusviews]

Detail how it's done. I'm running the v.3 skill. Thanks.

 

Edit: see post #23.

Edited November 29, 2017 by stusviews

[TheFallenAngel]

That's incorrect. It can be accomplished with a single account using v.3 with individual devices now, and with scenes on the next iteration of the v.3 Skill.

Yeah as Stu said - details to back that would be great!

 

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

[Goose66]

Detail how it's done. I'm running the v.3 skill. Thanks.

 

If you have enabled the v3 skill, forgot all your devices, and then performed rediscovery, this is how you do it:

 

1. Create a Smart Home Group for room 1 and add the Alexa device in room 1 and one or more devices that are categorized as LIGHTS (with the light icon).

2. Create a Smart Home Group for room 2 and add the Alexa device in room 2 and one or more other devices that are lights.

3. When in room 1, say "Alexa, turn on the lights" and the devices added to the Smart Home Group for room 1 will turn on.

4. When in room 2, say "Alexa, lights on" and the devices added to the Smart Home Group for room 2 will turn on.

 

This is how I initially tested it back at post 19 - one Smart Home Group named "Master Bedroom" and one named "Office," both with Echo Dots. It's worth noting that if any of the spoken names for devices or scenes setup in your ISY Portal is just "Light" or "Lights," this will probably keep the "turn on the lights" shortcut from working properly. 

[TheFallenAngel]

If you have enabled the v3 skill, forgot all your devices, and then performed rediscovery, this is how you do it:

 

1. Create a Smart Home Group for room 1 and add the Alexa device in room 1 and one or more devices that are categorized as LIGHTS (with the light icon).

2. Create a Smart Home Group for room 2 and add the Alexa device in room 2 and one or more other devices that are lights.

3. When in room 1, say "Alexa, turn on the lights" and the devices added to the Smart Home Group for room 1 will turn on.

4. When in room 2, say "Alexa, lights on" and the devices added to the Smart Home Group for room 2 will turn on.

 

This is how I initially tested it back at post 19 - one Smart Home Group named "Master Bedroom" and one named "Office," both with Echo Dots. It's worth noting that if any of the spoken names for devices or scenes setup in your ISY Portal is just "Light" or "Lights," this will probably keep the "turn on the lights" shortcut from working properly.

So, "Alex turn on the lights" is not at all related to the name of the Smart Home Group?

 

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[G W]

The down side is, if you have eight devices that are lights in one room, it turns them all on.

 

So, it still doesn't work as well as it should.

[stusviews]

How do you create a Smart Home Group for only one room. I can create any number of groups and add any number of devices to that group, including only the lights for just one room, but what do I name each group so that the identical command turns on the devices only in that one group?

[larryllix]

If you have enabled the v3 skill, forgot all your devices, and then performed rediscovery, this is how you do it:

 

1. Create a Smart Home Group for room 1 and add the Alexa device in room 1 and one or more devices that are categorized as LIGHTS (with the light icon).

2. Create a Smart Home Group for room 2 and add the Alexa device in room 2 and one or more other devices that are lights.

3. When in room 1, say "Alexa, turn on the lights" and the devices added to the Smart Home Group for room 1 will turn on.

4. When in room 2, say "Alexa, lights on" and the devices added to the Smart Home Group for room 2 will turn on.

 

This is how I initially tested it back at post 19 - one Smart Home Group named "Master Bedroom" and one named "Office," both with Echo Dots. It's worth noting that if any of the spoken names for devices or scenes setup in your ISY Portal is just "Light" or "Lights," this will probably keep the "turn on the lights" shortcut from working properly. 

Are we all talking the same skill here? I have v3 installed, forgot and rediscovered all my devices several times. 

 

This sounds like it is confused with an Insteon group procedure. I have no Alexa devices that can be selected in the Amazon app or ISY Admin Console and I have no light bulb icons (no icons whatsoever anywhere) in the Alexa app either? My Echoes and Dots are not selectable smart home devices, according to the lists, to be selected for inclusion in a group.

 

Where are the Amazon devices being found?

 

 

 

 

BTW:There is going to be much confusion in the future because any ISY element that is not a device is found under the "Scene" tab. I don't use many scenes but all my links to programs are labelled as scenes too. Now we have Zwave scenes, groups, Insteon scenes,  ISY scenes, and Alexa scenes and groups.

Edited November 29, 2017 by larryllix

[Goose66]

So, "Alex turn on the lights" is not at all related to the name of the Smart Home Group?

 

No. The name of the Smart Home Group has no bearing on the functionality. It is the presence of the particular Alexa device AND the particular light devices in the Smart Home Group that establish the relationship and enable the functionality.

Edited November 29, 2017 by kingwr

[Goose66]

The down side is, if you have eight devices that are lights in one room, it turns them all on.

 

But you don't have to put all of them in the group. Just put the lights that you want to control by the shortcut (the "implicit targeting" functionality) in the group, and leave the rest to be controlled by their spoken name.

 

If this implicit targeting works for thermostats as well, you may want to throw your thermostat for the room in the group as well, but I haven't tested that (don't have Insteon thermostats in new house yet).

Edited November 29, 2017 by kingwr