Bridging Z-wave over ethernet

[asbril]

Stu,

 

Read this... http://www.vesternet.com/what-is-z-wave-plus

Gary, 

 

I believe that ISY is not yet ZWave Plus, as such....

 

".................The main consideration is the Z-Wave controller - if the controller is not Z-Wave Plus enabled than all devices added to that controller's network will default to acting as Z-Wave. This is because Z-Wave Plus is back-wards compatible with Z-Wave devices, when it is installed with Z-Wave devices it behaves just like a Z-Wave device as those existing devices have no way to communicate with it using Z-Wave Plus commands.........................."

[G W]

Gary,

 

I believe that ISY is not yet ZWave Plus, as such....

 

".................The main consideration is the Z-Wave controller - if the controller is not Z-Wave Plus enabled than all devices added to that controller's network will default to acting as Z-Wave. This is because Z-Wave Plus is back-wards compatible with Z-Wave devices, when it is installed with Z-Wave devices it behaves just like a Z-Wave device as those existing devices have no way to communicate with it using Z-Wave Plus commands.........................."

That is correct AND that is not the point of my posting that link for Stu.

[asbril]

That is correct AND that is not the point of my posting that link for Stu.

I know Gary, I was just looking for your wisdom and knowledge

[G W]

I know Gary, I was just looking for your wisdom and knowledge

One has to be careful how one refers to registered trademarks.

 

Gen5 is a registered trademark of BioTek Instruments, Inc.

GEN 5 is a registered trademark of Glock, Inc.

GEN5 s a registered trademark of JCM American

 

So one has to be careful how one reads a press release put out be a company. Aeotec refers to their 5th generation of products as Gen5 and GEN5 but they neither own the trademark nor the exclusive rights to Z-Wave Plus or the Z-Wave 500 series chip set.

 

"With the new Z-Wave Plus certification program, the Z-Wave Alliance is introducing a series of packaging logos that will be located on every Z-Wave Plus certified product, informing the consumer this product incorporates the enhanced capabilities of the Next Gen, Z-Wave 500 series."

 

Just beware of the hype you read from some companies.

 

There is a lot of GOOD and a lot of misleading information on Internet websites. I suggest one start reading here: https://www.zwavezone.com/z-wave-plus-upgrade/ and here: https://z-wavealliance.org/

 

Maybe when Michal has time, he can post more information.

[G W]

Personally, I feel that the Aeotec marketing department is purposely misleading the public to make the company seem more relevant than it is.

 

Aeotec makes some great products so I don't understand why the company would post knowingly wrong and misleading information on its website.

[lilyoyo1]

One has to be careful how one refers to registered trademarks.

 

Gen5 is a registered trademark of BioTek Instruments, Inc.

GEN 5 is a registered trademark of Glock, Inc.

GEN5 s a registered trademark of JCM American

 

So one has to be careful how one reads a press release put out be a company. Aeotec refers to their 5th generation of products as Gen5 and GEN5 but they neither own the trademark nor the exclusive rights to Z-Wave Plus or the Z-Wave 500 series chip set.

 

"With the new Z-Wave Plus certification program, the Z-Wave Alliance is introducing a series of packaging logos that will be located on every Z-Wave Plus certified product, informing the consumer this product incorporates the enhanced capabilities of the Next Gen, Z-Wave 500 series."

 

Just beware of the hype you read from some companies.

 

There is a lot of GOOD and a lot of misleading information on Internet websites. I suggest one start reading here: https://www.zwavezone.com/z-wave-plus-upgrade/ and here: https://z-wavealliance.org/

 

Maybe when Michal has time, he can post more information.

This is why I can't jump fully into zwave. I feel like I have to study up on it to much. With insteon, I just have to know if it will accomplish the task. I feel with zwave not only do you have to check out the device but all the extra stuff with it and how it integrated.

[mwester]

This is why I can't jump fully into zwave. I feel like I have to study up on it to much. With insteon, I just have to know if it will accomplish the task. I feel with zwave not only do you have to check out the device but all the extra stuff with it and how it integrated.

 

Odd -- I had much the same feeling about Insteon when I started with it.  PLM?  What the heck is that?  Why can't I use a hub?  Which hub?  And I have to know if I need a serial vs USB PLM?  And this thing called an  "ISY" only works with a thing called a "PLM", but not the "USB" "PLM"???  And what the bleep is this other comms thing called "X10"?  Do I need that?  Who is UDI?  How are they related to "SmartHome"?  And is "SmartHome" part of "SmartLabs", or the other way around?  Who do I call if my PLM won't ISY to my USB and my X10 seems to be broken???

 

Ok, that was a little bit fun -- but I'm just pointing out that the learning curve for ISY/Insteon is just as steep and treacherous as Z-Wave, and also fraught with trademarks and company names and TLAs, which I suspect are just as often misused as they are in the ZWave world.  From the inside, our little Insteon world feels very comfortable, but I expect it's the same alphabet soup and terminology quagmire as every other technology.

 

JMO.

[larryllix]

Yeah but in Canada, and the rest of the world, Zed-Wave is even pronounced different.

 

Sent from my SGH-I257M using Tapatalk

[lilyoyo1]

Odd -- I had much the same feeling about Insteon when I started with it.  PLM?  What the heck is that?  Why can't I use a hub?  Which hub?  And I have to know if I need a serial vs USB PLM?  And this thing called an  "ISY" only works with a thing called a "PLM", but not the "USB" "PLM"???  And what the bleep is this other comms thing called "X10"?  Do I need that?  Who is UDI?  How are they related to "SmartHome"?  And is "SmartHome" part of "SmartLabs", or the other way around?  Who do I call if my PLM won't ISY to my USB and my X10 seems to be broken???

 

Ok, that was a little bit fun -- but I'm just pointing out that the learning curve for ISY/Insteon is just as steep and treacherous as Z-Wave, and also fraught with trademarks and company names and TLAs, which I suspect are just as often misused as they are in the ZWave world.  From the inside, our little Insteon world feels very comfortable, but I expect it's the same alphabet soup and terminology quagmire as every other technology.

 

JMO.

I can see what you mean. However, that's only about choosing a controller which is the learning curve for any protocol. For the most part, when you choose a device, you know exactly what you will get. However with zwave, you have to choose what devices supports scenes and scene type, which devices support secure repeating vs which supports beaming at all. Instant status, etc. Now you have the Gen5 vs Gen6 (which as Gary pointed out is BS). Does Zwave+ mean Gen5 and all that it brings or which features are supporting. Which features does a particular device support at any given level. Figuring out how to take advantage of the benefits that are out there etc. 

 

All that plus more simply makes zwave a bigger hassle. While you may have to do research on a controller in the beginning (that's needed regardless of protocol) with zwave, depending on a persons needs, that research extends to every device they look at buying. 

[G W]

Here is an official comment by Michel

 

 

 

http://forum.universal-devices.com/index.php?/topic/19892-Z-Wave-Plus&do=findComment&comment=205313

 

[kohai]

I can see what you mean. However, that's only about choosing a controller which is the learning curve for any protocol. For the most part, when you choose a device, you know exactly what you will get. However with zwave, you have to choose what devices supports scenes and scene type, which devices support secure repeating vs which supports beaming at all. Instant status, etc. Now you have the Gen5 vs Gen6 (which as Gary pointed out is BS). Does Zwave+ mean Gen5 and all that it brings or which features are supporting. Which features does a particular device support at any given level. Figuring out how to take advantage of the benefits that are out there etc. 

 

All that plus more simply makes zwave a bigger hassle. While you may have to do research on a controller in the beginning (that's needed regardless of protocol) with zwave, depending on a persons needs, that research extends to every device they look at buying. 

 

I've actually avoided insteon even though it would solve one problem I have because the PLM dies every 2 years.  I think each is wonky in their own way. 

[G W]

Here is the official statement from the Z-Wave Alliance. No where is there mention of it being called "Gen5" or "GEN5" but instead 'Next Gen' Z-Wave hardware platform, also know as 500 Series or 5th Generation Z-Wave.

 

Aeotec is not only infringing on trademarks but putting out bad and confusing information.

 

https://z-wavealliance.org/z-wave_plus_certification/

 

[stusviews]

I've actually avoided insteon even though it would solve one problem I have because the PLM dies every 2 years.

 

So does the portal.

[kowaj]

I ended up changing some of my outside lights over to Z-wave bulbs to get to my detached garage and I have one GE on off module that turns on some decorative lights as well.  

[Irakandjii]

According to Aeotech and the Z-Wave Alliance, Gen 5 and Gen 6 are exclusively Aeon Labs products so I doubt any other brand has that chip, thus not the range. As I indicated in an earlier post, placing the Gen  6 repeater inside the garage will probably have little impact on the range. Using a different brand probably won't be nearly as effective.

 

LoL sorry I wrote this before I went through the entire thread ... some of it is redundant.   

 

As I understand it, it is the Sigma Designs 500 series chip that is exclusive to Sigma designs as a manufacturer.  Sigma Designs is in the like an Intel or Arm in they exclusively manufacture the chip and sell to as many others as possible.  Aeon Labs has built the Aeotech Brand /  product family based on the 500 series chips and since they are early adopters some devices are exclusive in the marketing sense because they are first to market.  Not because they cannot be replicated.   Aeon publishes complete product specifications on their site which is counter intuitive to device exclusivity.  Aeon Labs does have and exclusive firmware stack to support the series 500 products.  This article clearly shows the advantages of the series 500  https://aeotec.com/z-wave-500-series-module-chip I would assume any ISY firmware to support a 500 series chip would also be exclusive.

 

I cannot find any source that indicates the series 500 Sigma Designs chips are exclusive to any manufacturer, if so, I would be interested to see it.

 

I am really hoping for a Sigma Designs series 500 SoC chip (SoC System on a Chip) finds its way into the ISY Dongle.  Or that ISY will support a series 500 USP or Serial Dongle .. for example:

 

https://z-wave.sigmadesigns.com/design-z-wave/modules/

 

https://z-wave.sigmadesigns.com/design-z-wave/controller-development-kits/

 

 

I saw the post that ISY will be incorporating all I have wished for.  

[asbril]

So does the portal.

?????

[mwester]

He's conflating the portal's two-year subscription with the PLM's apparent two-year life expectancy.   Of course, they are in no way similar beyond the time period involved.

[KeviNH]

Z-Wave® and Z-Wave Plus® are registered trademarks of Sigma Designs.
 
 

 

I assume GE uses the Sigma Designs "500" chipset for their 14xxx Z-Wave+ products, so this should have good range and work well as a beaming/repeater.

According to Aeotech and the Z-Wave Alliance, Gen 5 and Gen 6 are exclusively Aeon Labs products so I doubt any other brand has that chip, thus not the range. As I indicated in an earlier post, placing the Gen  6 repeater inside the garage will probably have little impact on the range. Using a different brand probably won't be nearly as effective.

 

The "500" series chipset for Z-Wave Plus are not exclusive to Aeotec, nor does Aeon Labs LLC hold a trademark on "500 series".
 
 

So one has to be careful how one reads a press release put out be a company. Aeotec refers to their 5th generation of products as Gen5 and GEN5 but they neither own the trademark nor the exclusive rights to Z-Wave Plus or the Z-Wave 500 series chip set.

I believe every "Z-Wave Plus" certified product is currently built using either Sigma's 500 series chips, or the pin-compatible Mitsumi products, (licensed from Sigma, google "WML-C84" for details).   Aeon Labs doesn't have exclusive use of the chips nor the phrases/trademarks.

[G W]

Z-Wave and Z-Wave Plus are registered trademarks of Sigma Designs.

 

 

 

The "500" series chipset for Z-Wave Plus are not exclusive to Aeotec, nor does Aeon Labs LLC hold a trademark on "500 series".

 

 

I believe every "Z-Wave Plus" certified product is currently built using either Sigma's 500 series chips, or the pin-compatible Mitsumi products, (licensed from Sigma, google "WML-C84" for details). Aeon Labs doesn't have exclusive use of the chips nor the phrases/trademarks.

Actually, trademarks of Silicon Labs.

 

Hopefully that will lead to some improvements.