The PLM Saga Continues

[smokegrub]

Thanks, will try.

[smokegrub]

Before I had opportunity to try this program all my programs disappeared again! I saved a backup with the former ISY software prior to the ISY software switch to the Z-wave version when all the programs were visible. Should I restore that backup? Will that resolve the problems with the battery devices? By the way, I tried the program on two separate battery devices and got the message "Bad Request".

Edited January 2, 2018 by smokegrub

[Teken]

Before I had opportunity to try this program all my programs disappeared again! I saved a backup with the former ISY software prior to the ISY software switch to the Z-wave version when all the programs were visible. Should I restore that backup? Will that resolve the problems with the battery devices? By the way, I tried the program on two separate battery devices and got the message "Bad Request".

 

No, do not attempt to perform a *Remote* restore as this will cause you all kinds of headaches. As noted being on site and local is not only best practices its something you need to be present for.

 

If you remote boot the system let me know if the programs are still missing.

 

Some considerations to keep in mind and try in no specific order of importance;

 

- Disable any firewall & anti virus to see if this behavior is still present or fixed

- Ensure the Java software is the latest release

- Always ensure both UI & Firmware match under the AC Help -> About

- Try opening the AC in another computer system to see if the same behavior is seen or not

- Programs: There are times where *Tight Loop* programs can cause the system to hang and this may cause different tabs to be missing or slow to load

- What is the Upload / Download speed of the ISP at the remote site?? If its still using dial up or DSL it may be too low.

 

Please cross off the items listed above and report back success vs failure . . .

Edited January 2, 2018 by Teken

[smokegrub]

- Disable any firewall & anti virus to see if this behavior is still present or fixed

- Ensure the Java software is the latest release

- Always ensure both UI & Firmware match under the AC Help -> About

- Try opening the AC in another computer system to see if the same behavior is seen or not - Can't do

- Programs: There are times where *Tight Loop* programs can cause the system to hang and this may cause different tabs to be missing or slow to load

- What is the Upload / Download speed of the ISP at the remote site?? If its still using dial up or DSL it may be too low. - >70 mbps

 

A reboot did not bring the programs back.

 

I will know this evening is\f the programs are still running even though they are invisible in the ISY.

 

Looks like I will just have to wait 4 months to get things set straight again.

 

Thanks for all your attempts to help.

 

Do you think UDI could possibly help if I ask them to remote in?

Edited January 2, 2018 by smokegrub

[Teken]

- Disable any firewall & anti virus to see if this behavior is still present or fixed

- Ensure the Java software is the latest release

- Always ensure both UI & Firmware match under the AC Help -> About

- Try opening the AC in another computer system to see if the same behavior is seen or not - Can't do

- Programs: There are times where *Tight Loop* programs can cause the system to hang and this may cause different tabs to be missing or slow to load

- What is the Upload / Download speed of the ISP at the remote site?? If its still using dial up or DSL it may be too low. - >70 mbps

 

A reboot did not bring the programs back.

 

I will know this evening is\f the programs are still running even though they are invisible in the ISY.

 

Looks like I will just have to wait 4 months to get things set straight again.

 

Thanks for all your attempts to help.

 

Do you think UDI could possibly help if I ask them to remote in?

 

They could certainly have more insight based on the error logs and help explain why the programs don't appear. Just to be clear are you saying once you select the programs tab on the left side no programs are listed? Or are you saying when you select a program from the list the IF, THEN, ELSE, sections appear to have blank selections / values / options? 

[smokegrub]

They could certainly have more insight based on the error logs and help explain why the programs don't appear. Just to be clear are you saying once you select the programs tab on the left side no programs are listed? Or are you saying when you select a program from the list the IF, THEN, ELSE, sections appear to have blank selections / values / options? 

 

When I select the Programs Tab there are no programs listed.

[Teken]

If you select any other tabs in the AC does every other page open and is populated like email, general, etc?

 

Are you on 4.6.2 firmware?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[smokegrub]

If you select any other tabs in the AC does every other page open and is populated like email, general, etc?

 

Are you on 4.6.2 firmware?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

All the tabs properly display except for summary and details. I have no variables.

 

Thus, only those sub tabs associated with the programs tab are dysfunctional.

[Teken]

Do you have the same experience when using another computer system to access and view the ISY AC?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mustang65]

I have an ISY that is located more then 300 miles from my primary residence. 

Since the average life expectancy of the Insteon PLM is about 2 years, have you looked into installing a backup PLM? You could plug each of the PLM's in to its own Insteon or Zwave On/Off module.  I just tested the PLM plugged into the Insteon On/Off module and it automatically activated the garden sprinklers using the program. I had better reset the program start time.

 

I believe you mentioned that you can still control the modules manually through the Admin remotely, but the program does not. As for the communications ports, they can be paralleled by using a 1 Female port to 2 Female Port connector (see link below). The disconnected 2nd PLM will not have any effect the working PLM, that is of course unless the defective PLM is shorting out its leads (not likely).  You can always test this out when you visit the remote location. If the defective PLM does in fact cause issues with the leads, you may want to use a circuit that uses low voltage DPDT relays to switch the RJ45 leads, activated by an Insteon low voltage On/Off module.

 

Operation:

If you think that the PLMs is failing, turn off that PLM remotely and activate the backup PLM.

 

PARTS:

1 - (1..2..3)Backup PLMs

2 -(1) Dreamvasion® Network Adapter 1 RJ45 Female port to 2 Female Ports CAT 5/CAT 6 LAN Ethernet Socket Splitter Connector Adapter

3 - (2) RJ45 cables (since one already is in use)

Edited January 3, 2018 by Mustang65

[Teken]

 

Since the average life expectancy of the Insteon PLM is about 2 years, have you looked into installing a backup PLM? You could plug each of the PLM's in to its own Insteon or Zwave On/Off module.  I just tested the PLM plugged into the Insteon On/Off module and it automatically activated the garden sprinklers using the program. I had better reset the program start time.

 

I believe you mentioned that you can still control the modules manually through the Admin remotely, but the program does not. As for the communications ports, they can be paralleled by using a 1 Female port to 2 Female Port connector (see link below). The disconnected 2nd PLM will not have any effect the working PLM, that is of course unless the defective PLM is shorting out its leads (not likely).  You can always test this out when you visit the remote location. If the defective PLM does in fact cause issues with the leads, you may want to use a circuit that uses low voltage DPDT relays to switch the RJ45 leads, activated by an Insteon low voltage On/Off module.

 

Operation:

If you think that the PLMs is failing, turn off that PLM remotely and activate the backup PLM.

 

PARTS:

1 - (1..2..3)Backup PLMs

2 -(1) Dreamvasion® Network Adapter 1 RJ45 Female port to 2 Female Ports CAT 5/CAT 6 LAN Ethernet Socket Splitter Connector Adapter

3 - (2) RJ45 cables (since one already is in use)

 

 

The problem going this route is that the ISY Series Controller must enroll the 2413S PLM into its system. The Insteon hardware is than linked to both the controller and 2413S PLM.

 

Your proposal is a novel one but suspect the final outcome will be a mixed bag in deployment and operations.

[Mustang65]

Can it be enrolled remotely?

[paulbates]

'Hot swapping' PLMs won't work unfortunately. The design of insteon is companion links between devices, sharing their specific insteon addresses. Each PLM has a unique 3 octet insteon address that is programmed into the all insteon devices it controls. 

 

With ISY, there is a 1:1 between one specific PLM insteon address and its controlled devices. If you "swap in" a new PLM with out a manual "restore modem" from the admin console, the devices on the insteon network won't have that PLM's address link and will not respond to programs. In addition, this is complicated by the need to manually put insteon wireless devices in set mode, one at a time to update their insteon addresses.

 

I do keep a spare PLM on a shelf by the ISY, ready to "restore modem" when the current one dies. Keeping a  backup on hand a good back up plan.

 

Paul

[Teken]

Can it be enrolled remotely?

 

There are portions where a person needs to be physically there to complete some of the tasks. In case you're not aware the only reason the 2413S PLM exists is that lone piece of hardware is the repository of all the hardware links in the Insteon network.

 

Ideally what Smartlabs should have done in its Insteon concept and topology is to make the 2413S PLM like a dumb AP / RE. Where it doesn't require knowing its Insteon MAC address but they didn't.

 

Technically what you're suggesting has been done before but the outcome has been a mixed bag and on a small Insteon network. If someone was to enroll two identical 2413S PLM and left one in the example as you stated unpowered and ready to go and had all the 1:1 links as the primary unit. The very first steps would be to be using the ISY Series Controller firmware that does not declare a fault where the 2413S PLM is missing or can't be contacted.

 

That is a very easy fix simply by installing the appropriate firmware.

 

Next, in your example you would need to time a few things to happen which is to power down the primary PLM. Bring the secondary PLM on line at this point lets assume everything operates as expected primary is off line, secondary is on line. Now you need to reboot the ISY Series Controller so it see's the secondary PLM.

 

At this point its really a mixed bag whether the system will come up with out declaring a fault. Lets assume its *Good to go* you still need to complete a PLM restore so all the links are properly associated to the Insteon network. Which of course doesn't even address the fact you need to be present to initiate the update for legacy battery operated devices.

 

That isn't something that can be done remotely and I can tell you from years of doing this a PLM restore isn't something you want to be doing hundreds of miles away with out some kind of solid remote connectivity and ability to cycle power outside of the Insteon network.

 

I've done this very thing myself with varying results from 100% success to utter failure as a proof of concept. 

 

I know in my setup that I could accomplish 90% of the overall task where the system would be 95% solid. But for those who have a mission critical system this isn't something to take lightly as the results can be pretty bad depending upon the dependencies.

 

Its a great idea worth testing out if its something that someone wants to prove out in a isolated manner. 

[paulbates]

Ideally it would work by letting me, personally, order a back up PLM with my current PLM's address already burned in. Then I believe Don's idea would work perfectly, as long as it was updated when devices and scenes were changed

 

They've done that in the past for hubs, sending a new one with the address of the old one, but that was once 4 years ago, never heard about it again.

 

Paul

Edited January 3, 2018 by paulbates

[Teken]

Ideally it would work by letting me, personally, order a back up PLM with my current PLM's address already burned in. Then I believe Don's idea would work perfectly, as long as it was updated when devices and scenes were changed

 

They've done that in the past for hubs, sending a new one with the address of the old one, but that was once 4 years ago, never heard about it again.

 

Paul

 

Ideally, the 2413S PLM would simply use a standard global address say 00:AB:F3:  So no matter when you replaced the PLM it would always have the same Insteon ID. A secondary unique ID could be present too for other requirements for security etc.

[Mustang65]

The better idea would be to allow you to reprogram the PLM's MAC address and avoid all the related  issues

[Teken]

The better idea would be to allow you to reprogram the PLM's MAC address and avoid all the related  issues

 

LOL ~ Yes, but someone thought it was much better to lock down the user.

[Mustang65]

I will have to think about this... Simular to my how to beat the CampGround ISP from blocking modem MAC addresses of those campers that stream movies. I have a USB Wi-Fi modem with a MAC address that can be changed, plugged into a Raspberry Pi acting as a bridge into my RV's Wi-Fi router. Each time they block my MAC, I change it. I know for a fact it is driving the ISP network warden crazy. I only stream video at night between M-F when the network does not have many users.

[paulbates]

The better idea would be to allow you to reprogram the PLM's MAC address and avoid all the related  issues

Yep, that's been suggested and pleaded for, for years. Teken can attest to that. Its a proprietary HW scheme. I've not run into anyone that has "cracked the code" for readdressing a PLM (or any insteon HW). If someone had, I'd be sending them my spare PLM, current PLM address and $$ to do it so I would have something mostly ready to swap.

 

SH did something similar in 2012 when the first hub 1s had a major problems and they had to swap. There was a form to fill out, including your current Insteon address, and a new hub was shipped with the same address. Plug and chug. However, I've seen nothing like that since

 

Paul

Edited January 3, 2018 by paulbates

[Teken]

I will have to think about this... Simular to my how to beat the CampGround ISP from blocking modem MAC addresses of those campers that stream movies. I have a USB Wi-Fi modem with a MAC address that can be changed, plugged into a Raspberry Pi acting as a bridge into my RV's Wi-Fi router. Each time they block my MAC, I change it. I know for a fact it is driving the ISP network warden crazy. I only stream video at night between M-F when the network does not have many users.

 

Don,

 

LOL ~ You're such a pirate, Bravo!

[Teken]

Yep, that's been suggested and pleaded for, for years. Teken can attest to that. Its a proprietary HW scheme. I've not run into anyone that has "cracked the code" for readdressing a PLM (or any insteon HW). If someone had, I'd be sending them my spare PLM, current PLM address and $$ to do it so I would have something mostly ready to swap.

 

SH did something similar in 2012 when the first hub 1s had a major problems and they had to swap. There was a form to fill out, including your current Insteon address, and a new hub was shipped with the same address. Plug and chug. However, I've seen nothing like that since

 

Paul

 

I'm still holding out hope the new guy who bought Smartlabs will bring to market some fresh eyes and how to do business. If we see nothing in ways of new / refreshed hardware besides software crap in 2018.

 

Insteon will be relegated to X-10 history of *Had so much potential*

[smokegrub]

 

Since the average life expectancy of the Insteon PLM is about 2 years, have you looked into installing a backup PLM? You could plug each of the PLM's in to its own Insteon or Zwave On/Off module.  I just tested the PLM plugged into the Insteon On/Off module and it automatically activated the garden sprinklers using the program. I had better reset the program start time.

 

I believe you mentioned that you can still control the modules manually through the Admin remotely, but the program does not. As for the communications ports, they can be paralleled by using a 1 Female port to 2 Female Port connector (see link below). The disconnected 2nd PLM will not have any effect the working PLM, that is of course unless the defective PLM is shorting out its leads (not likely).  You can always test this out when you visit the remote location. If the defective PLM does in fact cause issues with the leads, you may want to use a circuit that uses low voltage DPDT relays to switch the RJ45 leads, activated by an Insteon low voltage On/Off module.

 

Operation:

If you think that the PLMs is failing, turn off that PLM remotely and activate the backup PLM.

 

PARTS:

1 - (1..2..3)Backup PLMs

2 -(1) Dreamvasion® Network Adapter 1 RJ45 Female port to 2 Female Ports CAT 5/CAT 6 LAN Ethernet Socket Splitter Connector Adapter

3 - (2) RJ45 cables (since one already is in use)

 

 

The subject ISY and PLM are 325 miles from my current location and I will not be there for 4 months!

[smokegrub]

I am going to request that UDI remote into the ISY and see if they can sort out what's up. So far, my programs, though not visible, are still running but all but a couple battery sensors are visible in the device tree and they are showing a heartbeat but otherwise "dead". If I can somehow make it four months I will sort things out onsite.

 

Thanks for all the feedback.

Edited January 4, 2018 by smokegrub