Basic config - add a button to trigger a scene

[pooderbill]

Just getting started using the Admin console.

I have 3 inline dimmers and one 8 button keypad.

I created a scene that has the dimmers and keypad.

How do I make button 2 trigger this scene?

 

And then how to make button 2 toggle the scene on and then all dimmers off?

And how to change from toggle to just trigger the scene on?

 

I watched the Linking/Scenes video but it fails to document how to make a specific button trigger a scene.

 

[larryllix]

Just treat your scene the same as you would a device.

 

If

....control button 2 is switched On

 

Then

.... set Scene On

 

Else

....--

 

To toggle a scene a more complex method is required using a variable or even setting the button to toggle mode so that it sends an On and Off.

I like to keep all trigger devices to On only and use ISY program software to control the toggle.

[oberkc]

I created a scene that has the dimmers and keypad

 

Keypads (as a whole) cannot be part of a scene.  However, individual buttons on a keypad CAN be part of a scene.  Which button on the keypad is in your scene currently?  Is it the primary (button A)?  Are any of the devices in your scene identified as a controller?

 

How do I make button 2 trigger this scene?

 

I am not sure exactly what you are trying to accomplish, but you could add the button2 to the scene, as controller.  This would result in the ability to simply turn the scene on/off via that button.

 

And then how to make button 2 toggle the scene on and then all dimmers off?

And how to change from toggle to just trigger the scene on?

 

I am unclear what you are trying to accomplish.  You want a press of button2 to turn on the scene, followed immediately by turning off some of the devices in the scene?!  I am confused.

[pooderbill]

The goal is to use button A to turn toggle all the dimmers on and off with each button push. Scene 1 has button A and 3 dimmers. It correctly toggles all dimmers on/off with each button push. Scene 2 has button B and 3 dimmers. Pushing button B does nothing with the dimmers. The button light flashes when pressed and the green activity light flashes at the bottom of the keypad. Similarly, button C and D are in Scene 3 and 4, each scene has the light level different, but they do nothing when pushed. Currently, only button A works as desired.

 

The goal is to program the keypad so each button will turn on a different scene, with button A is a push on/push off toggle.
And ideally, I'd like any other button light that is on to turn off when a new scene is triggered.

[stusviews]

Buttons can be scene controllers or responders. If a button is an ISY scene controller, then it's also a scene responder. You usually have a choice when you add the button to a scene. Buttons can be a controller of one and only one scene, but can be a responder to many scenes.

 

In order for a button to turn a scene on or off it must be a controller. Controllers appear in red, responders show in blue.

 

The goal is to program the keypad so each button will turn on a different scene, with button A is a push on/push off toggle.
And ideally, I'd like any other button light that is on to turn off when a new scene is triggered.

 

What you are asking for is referred to as "mutually-exclusive buttons." You will need a scene for each button, with one button as the controller and all the other buttons as responders. If the button is a secondary button, then you'll also need to add the device being controlled to the scene. Set the controller button to ON, the device being controlled to On and all the other buttons being controlled to Off.

 

All-in-all, you'll need eight separate scenes, one for each button.

[oberkc]

Pushing button B does nothing with the dimmers.​

 

Keep in mind one possibility: are the dimmer responder levels set to zero?  Do you know how to identify whether buttons B, C, and D are in the respective scenes as "controllers"?  Are they controllers (versus responders)?

The button light flashes when pressed

I understand that this is an indicator that the button has sensed a failure to communicate with a linked device.  A flashing light could also indicate that the button is in "non-toggle" mode.  Do you know how to check for that?  What happens to the button backlight after the flashing ceases?

 

And ideally, I'd like any other button light that is on to turn off when a new scene is triggered.

​I am unsure whether eight scenes are required.  Are the three dimmers in each of the four scenes the same physical devices?  If so, you could, theoretically, accomplish what you want with a single scene.  But, before we get to that, lets figure out why your current setup is not working.

[pooderbill]

So I deleted the buttons from every scene and started over. I was dragging a button device to the new scene. Apparently there were some leftover states and now button B turns on that scene but also button H light turns on. I always added the devices checking the clear old programs.  think I need to do a factory reset on all the dimmers and the button. But they mounted in ceiling wiring boxes so pushing dimmer buttons isn't an option. How do you hard reset the 2334 8button and the 2471DA1 dimmers with the ISY994? What's the best practice to add devices to a scene? Drag each one from the My Lighting inventory?

 

I don't understand what a button responder is. I thought the responder is the button's LED light.

[stusviews]

The button can be a controller of another Insteon device. Press the button to turn the other device on, press the same button to turn the other device off. In this case, the button is both a controller of the scene and also a responder, if the scene has a another controller, too. The LED only indicates the last command sent, lit if the last command sent by pushing the button was an On and unlit it the last command sent by pushing the button was an Off.

 

The button can be a scene responder. Sending Off from another Insteon device to the button will turn the button's LED off and sending an On from another Insteon device will turn the button On. This will affect the button's LED only, not any of it's links--unless you are sending the commands to a scene with other members, and not just to the button.

 

Insteon devices require that a Factory Reset be be done only by manually pressing buttons. This is a security issue and prevents any one who hacks in to reset your device(s) or add them to their system/control. There is no 100% secure system. Even major financial institutions get hacked, but needing physical access is a reasonably good security measure for lighting control

[oberkc]

Apparently there were some leftover states and now button B turns on that scene but also button H light turns on.​

 

Did you ever manually (following the instructions in the manual for these two devices) link these?

I always added the devices checking the clear old programs.​

 

Yes, normally I would expect this to clear out the old links, if any.  When you click on button H in the device list, does it show it to be a member of any scene?

What's the best practice to add devices to a scene? Drag each one from the My Lighting inventory?

 

I use dragging.  I use rt-click>>>add to scene.  Both seem to work well for me.  

[oberkc]

I don't understand what a button responder is. I thought the responder is the button's LED light.

 

stusviews offered a thorough explanation.  To that I will add:

 

- within a scene, responders show as blue text, controllers as red

- each responder can be defined with a level (on level and ramp rate) defining how it will react to a given controller device

[pooderbill]

Keypad and dimmers working OK.

 

One item needs clarification:

I've been watching the red/green LED on the keypad to make sure each button completes its controller task.

However, when I moved the keypad and dimmer set to another location, the buttons work OK but there is a red LED flash.

Which I believe is due to an expected response. 

I figured out that the ISY941 and PLM are not at the new building. Adding the ISY and PLM brings back the green status.

 

I thought the devices can be programmed and run without the ISY/PLM.

Is that not true?

[stusviews]

Yes, the ISY is not required to create Insteon scenes. All scenes can be created manually according to each devices' Owners Manual.

 

BTW, an Insteon scene is simply when one or more Insteon device(s) is a controller of one or more other Insteon devices. An Insteon device can be a controller of one and only one scene, but it can be a responder to hundreds of scenes.

 

OTOH, the ISY is required to create programs (conditionals).

[MWareman]

BTW, an Insteon scene is simply when one or more Insteon device(s) is a controller of one or more other Insteon devices. An Insteon device can be a controller of one and only one scene, but it can be a responder to hundreds of scenes.

 

Expanding a little. A scene does not even have to have a controller device. All scene members can be responders (though I think you need a controller like an ISY to configure responder only scenes...)

 

I like to think of Insteon scenes like lighting scenes on a stage. It’s just a group of devices where you have predefined the on level of each member. Triggering the scene causes all its member devices to change to the predefined level.

[asbril]

Expanding a little. A scene does not even have to have a controller device. All scene members can be responders (though I think you need a controller like an ISY to configure responder only scenes...)

 

I like to think of Insteon scenes like lighting scenes on a stage. It’s just a group of devices where you have predefined the on level of each member. Triggering the scene causes all its member devices to change to the predefined level.

I use all responder-scenes for each room so that I can have fewer icons in my Mobilinc. I can click on that Mobilinc icon and then control individual devices in the scene.

[pooderbill]

So I need to ask the last question again.

 

The ISY is on my local network and all the dimmers and the keypad behave normally.

Specifically, the keypad status light (at the bottom of the keypad) blinks green for all scene triggers.

As I understand the Insteon dimmer and keypad design, all the scenes are stored in the devices.

So the keypad and dimmers will still function without the ISY/PLM turned on.

 

So I moved the dimmers and keypad to another building but without taking the ISY and PLM.

The keypad triggers each scene BUT the status LED flashes red at the end of the scene.

 

I am guessing that something in the keypad is trying to talk to the ISY.

Is this by design? Does the red status light indicate a failure to talk to the ISY?

If this is always the case, then the status LED can't be used to verify communication failures with the dimmers.

[stusviews]

The LED indicator is functioning correctly. There is a communication problem. So yes, links are stored in the device. But if the device is moved to a different location, although the links are intact, the route has changed between the controller and its responders.

[oberkc]

As I understand the Insteon dimmer and keypad design, all the scenes are stored in the devices.

Keep in mind, however, that there is always one device that is part of every "scene": the PLM.  Yes, links records between various devices are stored in those devices so your keypads and dimmers would still work, but they may give indication of a communication problem if the PLM is experiencing problem or is gone.  That could explain your flashing red LED.

 

If your intent is to create a bunch of scenes in a bunch of devices using the ISY, then to move the devices elsewhere without the ISY/PLM, you should consider one final action before moving the devices: FILE>>>DELETE MODEM (PLM).  This will remove the PLM from the link records of the individual devices.

[paulbates]

 

So I moved the dimmers and keypad to another building but without taking the ISY and PLM.

The keypad triggers each scene BUT the status LED flashes red at the end of the scene.

 

I am guessing that something in the keypad is trying to talk to the ISY.

Is this by design? Does the red status light indicate a failure to talk to the ISY?

If this is always the case, then the status LED can't be used to verify communication failures with the dimmers.

 

Its a weak diagnostic that means "I have a  problem", but no real info on specifically where the problem is.

 

To expand a little on Stu's explanation, specifically a red flash is an indicator of Group(scene) Cleanup. If it flashed Red, that means any one of the linked devices' acknowledgements was not heard back from in the acceptable time frame / number of retries. To Oberkc's point, it could be the PLM, or it could be one of the switches.

 

The other subtlety is that the scene command may have made it from the commanding switch to the linked device, and the device activated, but the acknowledgement didn't make it back.. and it will flash red anyway. And, the more devices that are linked, the more likely a collision/timeout will occur and that the scene will work but the acknowledgement doesn't make it back (at least in my experience)

 

You can tweak the retries on some switches, but my suggestion is to address the communication issues (bridging / filtering) and use that as a last resort.

 

Paul

[oberkc]

Oberkc's point, it could be the PLM, or it could be one of the switches.

 

I understand from pooderbill post that the PLM is not at the current location:

 

 

So I moved the dimmers and keypad to another building but without taking the ISY and PLM.

 

 

Given this, it is a near-certainty that the PLM is not responding to the cleanup request.  I also understand that temporarily moving the PLM to the new site cleared the problem:

 

 

I figured out that the ISY941 and PLM are not at the new building. Adding the ISY and PLM brings back the green status.

 

 

Given all this, it seems very possible in my mind that clearing the PLM links from the devices will solve the flashing red light problem.

[Sub-Routine]

As oberkc wrote you can use Delete Modem to remove the links from the devices.

 

If you would like to use your ISY at more than one location

 

For each site:

1. Install the ISY and PLM.

2. Link all the devices and create your scenes.

3. Backup your ISY using a file name such as 'Building X'.

4. Select Remove Modem.

 

When all the activity is over you can unplug the PLM and ISY and the devices will function as expected without the red error indicator.

 

When you want to make changes to those devices install the ISY and PLM at Building X.

 

1. Restore your ISY backup.

2. Select Restore Modem.

3. Make the changes you desire.

4. Backup the ISY.

5. Click on Remove Modem.

 

An alternative would be to leave a PLM installed at each site.

Then you would Restore ISY and Backup ISY when you move the ISY between sites and skip the Remove and Restore Modem commands (which are time consuming).

[pooderbill]

My plan is to do most of the programming at site-1 and then move everything to site-2 (including the ISY and PLM). The current ISY has a fixed IP on the site-1 subnet. Do I change the IP address before I shutdown and move everything to the new site-2 network? Or is there a way to talk to the ISY at site-2 and then change the IP address?

My concern is that the ISY Finder is not very dependable  and I have to search many times to locate the ISY. Getting the Admin console to start is a real issue as I need it to run each time. Are there any diagnostic logs that show why the ISY finder fails to find anything? 

[oberkc]

is the IP address of your router the same at both places?  Do you use the ISY to establish the fixed address, or a reservation on your router?  All things being equal, I would keep the same address for the ISY.

I am unware of logs showing failure of ISY finder.  I know that I don't have any problem with it.

[Sub-Routine]

It would be best to set the ISY to use DHCP before you move it. Configuration/System/Network Settings. Also check the box marked UPnP.

With my limited experience with routers it seems most of them will remember any device ever connected to it and reuse the same address each time it is connected. That allows PCs to be shut down/restarted, laptops and phones come and go, etc.

If you are using Windows you should be able to use an address in the Finder of http://ISY. Then it won't matter what it's address is.

[pooderbill]

No, the two networks are not the same, one is 192.168.1.x and the other is 192.168.44.x so DHCP before the move seems to be the easiest.
Then I can change to a fixed address at site-2.

I do have a lot of failures with ISY finder. I sometimes have to reboot the PC to find the ISY.
And thanks for the tip about http://ISY
It may be the most reliable way to get the admin console started.

[MrBill]

The best practice is not to set a static IP on the device itself but to set up a "reservation" via the router.  When the ISY announces to the DHCP server "here I am, my MAC address is xx:yy:zz:aa:bb:cc may I please have an IP address?" the router will check the reservation list and say "Oh yes I know this device, I have your special requested IP it is ____" and then the ISY always gets the same IP. 

Hard-coding IP's in a device is bad practice for the very reason you are asking this question.  DHCP reservations also avoid address conflicts, where two devices are inadvertently assigned the same IP address.