Heating Question

[DrLumen]

I know there are quite a few people from up north here and have a question about heating.

 

I have a heat pump with electric aux heat and emergency heat. The question being, has anyone found a heating or power advantage to having 2 electric heat stages? Seems like it would be the same with 6kw running longer as opposed to 16kw running for a short time. Perhaps it may be analogous to a slow bake or use of a blow torch? A slow rise allows buildup of a type of thermal storage as opposed to many short bursts?

 

Any comments or thoughts?

[Teken]

I know there are quite a few people from up north here and have a question about heating.

 

I have a heat pump with electric aux heat and emergency heat. The question being, has anyone found a heating or power advantage to having 2 electric heat stages? Seems like it would be the same with 6kw running longer as opposed to 16kw running for a short time. Perhaps it may be analogous to a slow bake or use of a blow torch? A slow rise allows buildup of a type of thermal storage as opposed to many short bursts?

 

Any comments or thoughts?

 

In my humble opinion what turns on is secondary to the basics of how tight is the envelope, is the home well insulated, does the home have sufficient mass / density, what comfort level do you want to maintain?? 

[sjbauer]

The two stages of aux heat can help keep ones demand charges lower if one is on a electric plan that has a demand charge.

 

 

 

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[larryllix]

The two stages of aux heat can help keep ones demand charges lower if one is on a electric plan that has a demand charge.

 

 

 

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Where does residential energy metering support demand billing structures in North America?

 

What is the demand period? 

What is the demand period style? Logarithmic, sliding window, block interval? How fine is the sliding click?

 

These techniques can all be played with something smart like ISY to do  peak splitting techniques and load rotational schemes.

[sjbauer]

Where does residential energy metering support demand billing structures in North America?

 

What is the demand period?

What is the demand period style? Logarithmic, sliding window, block interval? How fine is the sliding click?

 

These techniques can all be played with something smart like ISY to do peak splitting techniques and load rotational schemes.

In western SD we have some of the REAs as well as other electric providers that have demand billing in addition to the kw charge. If you are on the demand billing plan, the normal per kw charge is less, but a person pay also for the demand which is normally calculated over a 15 minute intervals during high demand times which are different for winter vs summer.

 

 

 

 

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[larryllix]

In western SD we have some of the REAs as well as other electric providers that have demand billing in addition to the kw charge. If you are on the demand billing plan, the normal per kw charge is less, but a person pay also for the demand which is normally calculated over a 15 minute intervals during high demand times which are different for winter vs summer.

 

 

 

 

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I assume the energy figures where meant as kWh.

 

I think Scott told me that he has a choice, in Washington state, to enter a demand type structure or straight energy consumption billing, also.

 

In Ontario Canada that was never approved for residential billing, only industrial and commercial billing rates but every government has a "better" idea to make it so cheap we cant afford it anymore.

 

This could ISY people a good challenge to control their peaks. In our industrial billing you create a peak and the demand charge lasts for another 11 months. Well worth watching.

[DrLumen]

In my humble opinion what turns on is secondary to the basics of how tight is the envelope, is the home well insulated, does the home have sufficient mass / density, what comfort level do you want to maintain?? 

 

The EE is probably standard/code for a house 10 years old. Other than a sliding door that is soon to be replaced, the rest is relative and can/will not be changed. As to comfort level, at least 68F.

 

Where does residential energy metering support demand billing structures in North America?

 

What is the demand period? 

What is the demand period style? Logarithmic, sliding window, block interval? How fine is the sliding click?

 

These techniques can all be played with something smart like ISY to do  peak splitting techniques and load rotational schemes.

 

From my understanding, TIme Of Use billing is getting prevalent in California. Going from what I have heard from others, the TOU billing was from noon until 5pm. However, with more people going solar, CA net metering requirements and them realizing that 'peak' was when most people aren't home. They are shifting the TOU billing to 5pm-9pm as it is the actual peak for AC yet outside the peak solar generation band.

[DrLumen]

The two stages of aux heat can help keep ones demand charges lower if one is on a electric plan that has a demand charge.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

That's a good point. As I'm currently not on demand or TOU billing here, I had forgot about that. Thanks for the reminder.

 

[DrLumen]

I assume the energy figures where meant as kWh.

 

I think Scott told me that he has a choice, in Washington state, to enter a demand type structure or straight energy consumption billing, also.

 

In Ontario Canada that was never approved for residential billing, only industrial and commercial billing rates but every government has a "better" idea to make it so cheap we cant afford it anymore.

 

This could ISY people a good challenge to control their peaks. In our industrial billing you create a peak and the demand charge lasts for another 11 months. Well worth watching.

 

It is the same here for commercial and industrial. Every POCO is different though so I try not to make general statements.

[larryllix]

The EE is probably standard/code for a house 10 years old. Other than a sliding door that is soon to be replaced, the rest is relative and can/will not be changed. As to comfort level, at least 68F.

 

 

From my understanding, TIme Of Use billing is getting prevalent in California. Going from what I have heard from others, the TOU billing was from noon until 5pm. However, with more people going solar, CA net metering requirements and them realizing that 'peak' was when most people aren't home. They are shifting the TOU billing to 5pm-9pm as it is the actual peak for AC yet outside the peak solar generation band.

TOU billing is not demand billing though. Many areas are going to TOU billing, but demand billing is usually reserved for commercial / industrial metering only.

 

In the past, demand metering was much more expensive but with the advent of digital energy meters, demand figures are just another piece of software and an accurate timer clock. TOU is usually done on a central clocked system.

[apostolakisl]

The EE is probably standard/code for a house 10 years old. Other than a sliding door that is soon to be replaced, the rest is relative and can/will not be changed. As to comfort level, at least 68F.

 

 

From my understanding, TIme Of Use billing is getting prevalent in California. Going from what I have heard from others, the TOU billing was from noon until 5pm. However, with more people going solar, CA net metering requirements and them realizing that 'peak' was when most people aren't home. They are shifting the TOU billing to 5pm-9pm as it is the actual peak for AC yet outside the peak solar generation band.

I have seen lots of peoepl from CA publish the same.  I didn't see them getting a kw peak charge, but rather kwh during peak cost way more.  I have seen numbers approaching $.40/kwh.  Insane!

 

I suspect that if/when electric cars actually make up a significant part of the market, everyone will see some sort of peak/off peak billing plus minus peak kw demand.  The thing with charging your car is that it can use insane amounts of watts to rapid charge.  Like well over 100,000 watts.  If everyone starts doing that in the middle of the day, there will be issues.

[DrLumen]

TOU billing is not demand billing though. Many areas are going to TOU billing, but demand billing is usually reserved for commercial / industrial metering only.

 

In the past, demand metering was much more expensive but with the advent of digital energy meters, demand figures are just another piece of software and an accurate timer clock. TOU is usually done on a central clocked system.

 

Yeah, I used to work for a property management company with a variety of property types. For commercial buildings, the first thing I would do is call the POCO to have the demand reset. As it was usually a new billing account they would reset it without much discussion. It did help as the old owners/management and maybe some deadbeat tenants were kicked to the curb lowering the demand potential - at least for a while.