CLOSED --- Z-Wave 500 Series Beta

[gdingus]

Received the 500 series Z Wave dongle a while back and had time to install it yesterday.  At first everything seemed fine. All wired devices showed up after query.  Then later in the afternoon, started getting responses from Alexa that Z Wave devices were not responding though they actually did turn on or off.  Insteon devices not affected.  Bringing up the AC, I had quite a few devices that had no comms.  Tried to heal network and AC froze up before completed.  Tried again, completed successfully.  Then started getting messages about Z Wave devices and no communication.  Some devices actually unresponsive that were earlier.  Today decided to reinstall old dongle.  Looks like back to normal, though waiting to see if anything goes south with time.  I did do full back up of Z Wave network, am running 5.0.13A (installed 3 weeks ago), did disable query at start.  I plan on trying the new dongle again but wondered if anyone had similar issues.  It seems like most installs from comments here have gone fairly smoothly.    

[kohai]

6 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

No. Zwave automatically downgrads to the lowest firmware. I'd still get it as some features would still be applicable such as lower battery life, firmware upgrades, and features

So, if you have even 1 zwave (non-plus) in your network does the entire z-wave network default to zwave (non-plus)?  

[kohai]

5 hours ago, gdingus said:

Received the 500 series Z Wave dongle a while back and had time to install it yesterday.  At first everything seemed fine. All wired devices showed up after query.  Then later in the afternoon, started getting responses from Alexa that Z Wave devices were not responding though they actually did turn on or off.  Insteon devices not affected.  Bringing up the AC, I had quite a few devices that had no comms.  Tried to heal network and AC froze up before completed.  Tried again, completed successfully.  Then started getting messages about Z Wave devices and no communication.  Some devices actually unresponsive that were earlier.  Today decided to reinstall old dongle.  Looks like back to normal, though waiting to see if anything goes south with time.  I did do full back up of Z Wave network, am running 5.0.13A (installed 3 weeks ago), did disable query at start.  I plan on trying the new dongle again but wondered if anyone had similar issues.  It seems like most installs from comments here have gone fairly smoothly.    

There's another thread talking about Alexa and her recent behavior saying thing's aren't responding when they actually do what she says.  That issue may be separate from the other issues you experienced.

[lilyoyo1]

29 minutes ago, kohai said:

So, if you have even 1 zwave (non-plus) in your network does the entire z-wave network default to zwave (non-plus)?  

That is correct. Some features will still be available though (those not based on routing). With that said, it's still worth an investment (especially for sensors). 

[asbril]

1 hour ago, lilyoyo1 said:

That is correct. Some features will still be available though (those not based on routing). With that said, it's still worth an investment (especially for sensors). 

Am I correct that Zwave Plus devices that connect directly to ISY and those that transit through other Plus devices would work with Zwave 500 Series features ? In other words, assuming that I only have Non-Plus devices at far end of my mesh, the Plus devices closer to ISY fully operate as Plus devices ?

[lilyoyo1]

Technically if a device talks directly to the controller, it would have the features. However if any device on the path is not zwave plus then all devices are downgraded for that articular path. 

I could be interpreting their information wrong but the way I read it, zwave defaults to the lowest firmware of that route to avoid conflicts. 

[Michel Kohanim]

@gdingus, 

I am so very sorry to hear. Have you tried positioning ISY vertically with LEDs facing down? If the Z-Wave heal completes and if you still have problems, then it seems that the routes are not recreated properly.

With kind regards,
Michel

[asbril]

9 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Technically if a device talks directly to the controller, it would have the features. However if any device on the path is not zwave plus then all devices are downgraded for that articular path. 

I could be interpreting their information wrong but the way I read it, zwave defaults to the lowest firmware of that route to avoid conflicts. 

I think that we are saying the same thing. I was just wondering whether I can slowly replace old Zwave devices and gradually take advantage of the new features or having to replace them all-in-one (expensive and probably not worth it). I'd love to have better performance of my sensor devices......

[lilyoyo1]

You won't get better performance until everything is replaced. With that said how is your performance lacking right now?

[asbril]

11 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

You won't get better performance until everything is replaced. With that said how is your performance lacking right now?

With more than 60 Zwave devices I have an excellent mesh network. My only problem are the various sensors, giving frequent comm error messages and giving seconds delay to activate the light that is linked in my programs. It may just be that I have the wrong sensors. Any suggestion ?

[jratliff]

I installed my new dongle about a week ago. I was on 5.0.13A. ISY placed vertical with LEDs down. Query at restart was off. Did not do a heal initially.

• Schlage locks - I have always had reliability issues with 3 of 4 of them. Those persisted with the new dongle. So everything seems to work for me the same as before. 
  I decided to try an exclude / include on two of them. One is just messed up, wouldn't take the programming code so I tried a factory reset 3 times and it still won't take the programming code or default/any user codes. Oddly it seems to be working fine with the ISY! I was able to add user code back in from ISY and it seems to work fine.
  The second one wouldn't exclude at its present distance from the ISY. I tried a heal for the heck of it but no change.  I moved the ISY right next to it. Exlcuded and included instantly. Seemed much faster than I recall happening in the past. It has worked well for the past week, so better than before. I'm going to try the same with the last lock today.
• Trane ZWave Thermostat - this continues to works well with ISY. A new node popped up with the new dongle - ZW Multilevel Sensor that lists Barometric pressure with no value.
• Somfy ZWave to RF blind controller - works fine as before.
• Aeotec Siren and Gen 6 range extender securely included - work fine but I didn't notice any difference getting my locks to work any differently. They are found and used in routing.

So overall everything is working fine, locks better than before but not sure it that's due to the dongle or excluding and reincluding the one lock and messing with the other.
I did notice that 3 of the locks always show this when requesting Link Details from them individually:
Mon 08/06/2018 14:02:35 : [ZW-SHOW         ] ----------------------------------------------
Mon 08/06/2018 14:02:41 : [ZW-TX-FAILED] enc=Ok uid=32.0 cmd=0x85.05 ASSOCIATION
Mon 08/06/2018 14:02:48 : [ZW-TX-FAILED] enc=Ok uid=32.0 cmd=0x85.05 ASSOCIATION
Mon 08/06/2018 14:02:55 : [ZW-TX-FAILED] enc=Ok uid=32.0 cmd=0x85.05 ASSOCIATION
Mon 08/06/2018 14:02:55 : [ZW-SHOW         ] Node  32 - Lock_Patio cannot retrieve association groups
Mon 08/06/2018 14:02:55 : [ZW-SHOW         ] 
Mon 08/06/2018 14:02:55 : [ZW-SHOW         ] ----------------------------------------------
Mon 08/06/2018 14:02:55 : [UZW-CMD 38      ] Show Node Links : ZW032_1

Whereas the 4th lock which is also the newest and closest to the ISY shows this:
Mon 08/06/2018 13:56:44 : [ZW-SHOW         ] ----------------------------------------------
Mon 08/06/2018 13:56:47 : [ZW-SHOW         ] Node  31 - Lock_Front has 1 association group
Mon 08/06/2018 13:56:50 : [ZW-SHOW         ]    Associations for group 001 of ZW031_1 Lock_Front
Mon 08/06/2018 13:56:50 : [ZW-SHOW         ]    Max Associations = 2 
Mon 08/06/2018 13:56:50 : [ZW-SHOW         ]       - Node   1 - [This ISY] 
Mon 08/06/2018 13:56:50 : [ZW-SHOW         ] 
Mon 08/06/2018 13:56:50 : [ZW-SHOW         ] ----------------------------------------------
 

Despite that error the locks are working fine, trigger and respond to programs consistently, and update right away in the admin console so I'm happy with everything thus far.

[BONeil]

Migration was quick and easy. Not a single problem so far. 

[lilyoyo1]

3 hours ago, asbril said:

With more than 60 Zwave devices I have an excellent mesh network. My only problem are the various sensors, giving frequent comm error messages and giving seconds delay to activate the light that is linked in my programs. It may just be that I have the wrong sensors. Any suggestion ?

If they are linked to your devices via programs then there will be a delay since it goes to the ISY then the ISY talks to the device. If that delay is 3-4 seconds then that would be different. I use the fibaro motion sensors which I love. I recently picked up a couple of the dome motion sensors to play with. I must say, I had low expectations but I think I like them better than the fibaro.

[asbril]

1 minute ago, lilyoyo1 said:

linked to your devices via programs

Thanks lilyoyo1, your comment seems to imply something that I had heard before, which is that a sensor can be directly  linked to another device without a ISY program. Is that indeed the case ?

As far as my current delays (with ISY programs) it is usually 3-5 seconds and that can be too much when I want a light switch on when someone enters the home....

[lilyoyo1]

10 minutes ago, asbril said:

Thanks lilyoyo1, your comment seems to imply something that I had heard before, which is that a sensor can be directly  linked to another device without a ISY program. Is that indeed the case ?

As far as my current delays (with ISY programs) it is usually 3-5 seconds and that can be too much when I want a light switch on when someone enters the home....

Youre welcome. My pleasure. Yes you can directly link them to another device. Create a scene and add both devices to the scene with your sensor as a controller. My half bathroom sensors are linked to my insteon switches in that way (Still needs the isy since it's a mixed scene).

Since you have all zwave, this will speed up the communication as you take out the middle man. You do have less control over how things operate vs. programs but it's much faster. I do it for my half baths because I don't have windows in them and want the lights on each time someone enters. The other devices are via programs but it's more like a 1-2 second Max before things respond.

 

[asbril]

2 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Youre welcome. My pleasure. Yes you can directly link them to another device. Create a scene and add both devices to the scene with your sensor as a controller. My half bathroom sensors are linked to my insteon switches in that way (Still needs the isy since it's a mixed scene).

Since you have all zwave, this will speed up the communication as you take out the middle man. You do have less control over how things operate vs. programs but it's much faster. I do it for my half baths because I don't have windows in them and want the lights on each time someone enters. The other devices are via programs but it's more like a 1-2 second Max before things respond.

 

Pls allow me another question.....  If I put a sensor as controller in a scene and a light as responder, is there a way for that light to go off after a set time ? Alternatively, would the light go off when the sensor resets itself ?  Thanks

[rccoleman]

11 minutes ago, asbril said:

Pls allow me another question.....  If I put a sensor as controller in a scene and a light as responder, is there a way for that light to go off after a set time ? Alternatively, would the light go off when the sensor resets itself ?  Thanks

That would depend on the capabilities and settings of your sensors. My motion sensors default to sending an ‘off’ command after 2 min, but I reconfigure them to only send ‘on’ when they see motion and never ‘off’. This keeps the lights on as long as I’m in the room, and I use a program to start a timer to turn the lights off whenever they turn on. That way, you get the best-instant on with a more flexible ‘off’ program.

Edit: and to be clear, there’s no way to code any sort of timer logic into the scene itself. It’s just going to react to what your motion sensors do.  

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, asbril said:

Pls allow me another question.....  If I put a sensor as controller in a scene and a light as responder, is there a way for that light to go off after a set time ? Alternatively, would the light go off when the sensor resets itself ?  Thanks

Ask away. We're all here to help each other besides our usual debates. Lol. 

My sensors are set up to send only On commands. The motion sensor itself doesn't turn them off. I have a simple program written that turns the lights off for me. 

If control motion is switched off and is not switched on wait 5 minutes turn off.

[Byron]

Installed the new dongle yesterday. I had some sort of issue upgrading from 5.0.12 to 5.0.13A before the dongle got here and lost all of my z-wave devices. Included them all back on the new one, then upgraded to 5.0.13B. Everything seems fine so far. I'm not noticing any increased range. Everything that worked before still works fine, the exception is the Everspring temp/humidity sensor in the freezer that never worked and still doesn't but I'm sure it's because it's in the freezer. Good job, and really liking 5.0.13!

-Byron

[scotnor]

On 7/19/2018 at 5:50 PM, blueman2 said:

Scott, I too have the Intermatic MultiWave pool controller.  But I was able to get Intermatic to install v39 firmware, which is fully compatible with z-wave.  So I now have full control over all functions, including variable speeds, all relays, temperature settings, etc.  Just FYI.  

My journey with the pool controller has ended.  Intermatic has refused to help me with this controller, so unfortunate that this has become a $400 brick.  They are not and will never be zwave compatible for the public. 

[Scott847]

On 8/6/2018 at 1:12 PM, jratliff said:

I installed my new dongle about a week ago. I was on 5.0.13A. ISY placed vertical with LEDs down. Query at restart was off. Did not do a heal initially.

• Schlage locks - I have always had reliability issues with 3 of 4 of them. Those persisted with the new dongle. So everything seems to work for me the same as before. 
  I decided to try an exclude / include on two of them. One is just messed up, wouldn't take the programming code so I tried a factory reset 3 times and it still won't take the programming code or default/any user codes. Oddly it seems to be working fine with the ISY! I was able to add user code back in from ISY and it seems to work fine.
  The second one wouldn't exclude at its present distance from the ISY. I tried a heal for the heck of it but no change.  I moved the ISY right next to it. Exlcuded and included instantly. Seemed much faster than I recall happening in the past. It has worked well for the past week, so better than before. I'm going to try the same with the last lock today.
• Trane ZWave Thermostat - this continues to works well with ISY. A new node popped up with the new dongle - ZW Multilevel Sensor that lists Barometric pressure with no value.
• Somfy ZWave to RF blind controller - works fine as before.
• Aeotec Siren and Gen 6 range extender securely included - work fine but I didn't notice any difference getting my locks to work any differently. They are found and used in routing.

So overall everything is working fine, locks better than before but not sure it that's due to the dongle or excluding and reincluding the one lock and messing with the other.
I did notice that 3 of the locks always show this when requesting Link Details from them individually:
Mon 08/06/2018 14:02:35 : [ZW-SHOW         ] ----------------------------------------------
Mon 08/06/2018 14:02:41 : [ZW-TX-FAILED] enc=Ok uid=32.0 cmd=0x85.05 ASSOCIATION
Mon 08/06/2018 14:02:48 : [ZW-TX-FAILED] enc=Ok uid=32.0 cmd=0x85.05 ASSOCIATION
Mon 08/06/2018 14:02:55 : [ZW-TX-FAILED] enc=Ok uid=32.0 cmd=0x85.05 ASSOCIATION
Mon 08/06/2018 14:02:55 : [ZW-SHOW         ] Node  32 - Lock_Patio cannot retrieve association groups
Mon 08/06/2018 14:02:55 : [ZW-SHOW         ] 
Mon 08/06/2018 14:02:55 : [ZW-SHOW         ] ----------------------------------------------
Mon 08/06/2018 14:02:55 : [UZW-CMD 38      ] Show Node Links : ZW032_1

Whereas the 4th lock which is also the newest and closest to the ISY shows this:
Mon 08/06/2018 13:56:44 : [ZW-SHOW         ] ----------------------------------------------
Mon 08/06/2018 13:56:47 : [ZW-SHOW         ] Node  31 - Lock_Front has 1 association group
Mon 08/06/2018 13:56:50 : [ZW-SHOW         ]    Associations for group 001 of ZW031_1 Lock_Front
Mon 08/06/2018 13:56:50 : [ZW-SHOW         ]    Max Associations = 2 
Mon 08/06/2018 13:56:50 : [ZW-SHOW         ]       - Node   1 - [This ISY] 
Mon 08/06/2018 13:56:50 : [ZW-SHOW         ] 
Mon 08/06/2018 13:56:50 : [ZW-SHOW         ] ----------------------------------------------
 

Despite that error the locks are working fine, trigger and respond to programs consistently, and update right away in the admin console so I'm happy with everything thus far.

I'm getting the same error messages you are on some of your Schlage locks. Following are all details for the lock. Z-Wave node #3 shows as a Siren but it's actually an Aeotec Doorbell.

Mon 08/13/2018 04:22:08 PM : [ZW-SHOW         ] ----------------------------------------------
Mon 08/13/2018 04:22:08 PM : [ZW-SHOW         ] ZW 008 Schlage Door Lock
Mon 08/13/2018 04:22:08 PM : [ZW-SHOW         ] ZW008_1 uid=8 type=4.64.3 mid=59 tid=25409 pid=20548 model=2
Mon 08/13/2018 04:22:08 PM : [ZW-SHOW         ]    -  x22  V1   APPLICATION_STATUS
Mon 08/13/2018 04:22:08 PM : [ZW-SHOW         ]    -  x72  V1   MANUFACTURER_SPECIFIC
Mon 08/13/2018 04:22:08 PM : [ZW-SHOW         ]    -  x7A  V2   FIRMWARE_UPDATE_MD
Mon 08/13/2018 04:22:08 PM : [ZW-SHOW         ]    -  x98  V1   SECURITY
Mon 08/13/2018 04:22:08 PM : [ZW-SHOW         ]    -  x86  V1   VERSION
Mon 08/13/2018 04:22:08 PM : [ZW-SHOW         ] - Secure
Mon 08/13/2018 04:22:08 PM : [ZW-SHOW         ]    -  x5D  V2  ANTITHEFT
Mon 08/13/2018 04:22:08 PM : [ZW-SHOW         ]    -  x85  V1  ASSOCIATION
Mon 08/13/2018 04:22:08 PM : [ZW-SHOW         ]    -  x20  V1  BASIC
Mon 08/13/2018 04:22:08 PM : [ZW-SHOW         ]    -  x80  V1  BATTERY
Mon 08/13/2018 04:22:08 PM : [ZW-SHOW         ]    -  x70  V1  CONFIGURATION
Mon 08/13/2018 04:22:08 PM : [ZW-SHOW         ]    -  x62  V2  DOOR_LOCK
Mon 08/13/2018 04:22:08 PM : [ZW-SHOW         ]    -  x71  V3  NOTIFICATION
Mon 08/13/2018 04:22:08 PM : [ZW-SHOW         ]    -  x63  V1  USER_CODE
Mon 08/13/2018 04:22:08 PM : [ZW-SHOW         ]    -  xEF  V0  MARK
Mon 08/13/2018 04:22:08 PM : [ZW-SHOW         ] 
Mon 08/13/2018 04:22:08 PM : [ZW-SHOW         ] Last working route from ISY to Node   8 - ZW 008 Schlage Door Lock
Mon 08/13/2018 04:22:08 PM : [ZW-SHOW         ]    - Node   3 - ZW 003 Siren
Mon 08/13/2018 04:22:08 PM : [ZW-SHOW         ] 
Mon 08/13/2018 04:22:08 PM : [ZW-SHOW         ] Node   8 - ZW 008 Schlage Door Lock has the following neighbors
Mon 08/13/2018 04:22:08 PM : [ZW-SHOW         ]    - Repeater - Node   2 - ZW 002 Siren
Mon 08/13/2018 04:22:08 PM : [ZW-SHOW         ]    - Repeater - Node   3 - ZW 003 Siren
Mon 08/13/2018 04:22:08 PM : [ZW-SHOW         ]    - Repeater - Node  17 - ZW 017 Energy Meter
Mon 08/13/2018 04:22:08 PM : [ZW-SHOW         ] 
Mon 08/13/2018 04:22:15 PM : [ZW-TX-FAILED] enc=Ok uid=8.0 cmd=0x85.05 ASSOCIATION
Mon 08/13/2018 04:22:22 PM : [ZW-TX-FAILED] enc=Ok uid=8.0 cmd=0x85.05 ASSOCIATION
Mon 08/13/2018 04:22:29 PM : [ZW-TX-FAILED] enc=Ok uid=8.0 cmd=0x85.05 ASSOCIATION
Mon 08/13/2018 04:22:29 PM : [ZW-SHOW         ] Node   8 - ZW 008 Schlage Door Lock cannot retrieve association groups
Mon 08/13/2018 04:22:29 PM : [ZW-SHOW         ] 
Mon 08/13/2018 04:22:29 PM : [ZW-SHOW         ] ----------------------------------------------

 

[rccoleman]

I just had a really weird thing happen.  My various Z-Wave locks, motion sensors, etc. have been working fine with the new dongle and 5.0.13C for a while, but today they all stopped working.  The event viewer log for each one showed the ISY trying to wake it up, it failed to get a response, retried a few times, and gave up.  I rebooted my ISY and that brought the non-secure devices back (a temp sensor and my motions sensors started working), but my three Kwikset locks still failed with the same symptom.  I did a "Show all info" on each one and all returned what looked like good data, but it said that the last known route couldn't be found for each one.  I manually pulled the power on the ISY for 30s or so, powered it back on, and it was still giving inaccurate route info.  I restored the Z-Wave backup that I made the last time I added a device, rebooted the ISY, and now everything is working again (including proper route information for my locks).

So, I recommend making a Z-Wave backup right now if you haven't already, but I don't really know what happened in my case.

@Michel Kohanim Is there something interesting that I can look for in my error log?  There's a lot in there and I can't really tell what's important.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi rccoleman,

I think one of the repeaters in your setup stopped working. It would have been great had you done a Heal Network to see what is failing.

With kind regards,
Michel

[rccoleman]

23 minutes ago, Michel Kohanim said:

Hi rccoleman,

I think one of the repeaters in your setup stopped working. It would have been great had you done a Heal Network to see what is failing.

With kind regards,
Michel

I considered that and did a heal, but it didn’t help. I then unplugged and plugged back in the sirens that act as repeaters, re-ran the heal, and it still didn’t help. Hopefully all of that is still in the log. I’ll see if I can find anything.  Heals tend to show a number of failures because almost all of my Z-Wave devices are battery-operated and fail to wake up for the heal. I have several gen 5 sirens that form the mesh and don’t see a connectivity problem outside of this instance. 

Edit: I do see the heal attempts in the log and error log, but no indication of any device failures.  Is any interesting information Event Viewer lost by rebooting the ISY later?  Event Viewer history goes back to when I opened the admin console last night, after I had everything working again.  If I could log Event Viewer messages to my syslog server, it would make it a lot easier to capture these failures.

The heal shows up in my error log like this:

Thu 2018/08/16 05:42:07 PM	System	-170001	<s:Envelope><s:Body><u:HealNetwork xmlns:u="urn	
Thu 2018/08/16 05:42:07 PM	System	-170001	[HTTP:0-41]: POST[1]-->/services	
Thu 2018/08/16 05:42:07 PM	System	-170001	<s:Envelope><s:Body><u:GetSystemStatus xmlns:u=	
Thu 2018/08/16 05:42:26 PM	System	-170001	[HTTP:0-29-5] 192.168.1.244:35162->80	

But at the time, it seems to proceed as expected and it completed.  I tried it several times without a change to the "route can't be found" message for only my secure devices.

[gviliunas]

Error when backing up new Z-Wave Dongle.   ISY version 5.0.13C

I installed the new dongle several weeks ago and everything appears to be working. I did test the ability to backup the dongle upon installation and it worked correctly. I also tried this a few days ago and it also worked without error.

Today I excluded and re-added two Zooz smart plugs as secure devices, successfully healed the network and then played with my "The Buttons" parameters to try and make these devices more reliable. Everything appears to still be working. As a last step, I wanted to backup the new dongle. When I did, the operation failed and I received 2 pop-up errors:

Top Pop-up:

      Could not open file:   [/DEF/F6/I1/NLS/EN_US.txt]

Below Pop-up:

      The Z-Wave Dongle has not been backed-up. An error occurred while reading data from the Z-Wave dongle.

I first tried rebooting and then tried power-cycling the ISY but received the same pop-up errors above when attempting to backup ISY.

ISY Error Log.v5.0.13C__Sat 2018.08.18 07.52.14.txt