In Event Viewer, does a TX-I1 with no ACK (sporadically) Mean Bad PLM?

[iannecj]

I am suddenly getting problems where my programs which rad sensors and turn on lights arent working.  Reading this forum in many cases it seems this is signal intergity issues but I am wodnering if I have a differnt issue.

Should I always see an ACK from the PLM in Event viewer when I send a manual command through the ISY main page and see the TX-I1?

When I send commands mannual from the main page in ISY....if I do get and ACK...I almsot always get an SRX.  

Around 60% of the time, I do not get the ACK.  ONly the TX-I1 row is event view and of course, the device doesn't change state.

Is Bad PLM the only thing that can explain this?

 

[iannecj]

Here are some examples of my failures from event viewer...one is a failure of the device to respond but the other failures I am not sure about, can anyone help diagnose?

 

Casita3 Lamplync Tests 2E-A7.64
On Failure
Thu 09/20/2018 08:42:37 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 2E A7 64 0F 13 00
Thu 09/20/2018 08:42:37 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 64.0F.13 00 11 FF 06          LTONRR (FF)

Casita3 Lamplync Tests 2E-A7.64
OFF Sucess
Thu 09/20/2018 08:45:51 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 2E A7 64 0F 13 00
Thu 09/20/2018 08:45:51 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 2E.A7.64 0F 13 00 06          LTOFFRR(00)
Thu 09/20/2018 08:45:51 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 2E.A7.64 33.5E.0F 2B 13 00    LTOFFRR(00)
Thu 09/20/2018 08:45:51 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 2E.A7.64-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Thu 09/20/2018 08:45:51 PM : [D2D EVENT   ] Event [2E A7 64 1] [ST] [0] uom=0 prec=-1
Thu 09/20/2018 08:45:51 PM : [  2E A7 64 1]       ST   0

Casita3 Lamplync Tests 2E-A7.64
On Sucess
Thu 09/20/2018 08:46:36 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 2E A7 64 0F 11 FF
Thu 09/20/2018 08:46:36 PM : [INST-ACK    ] 02 62 2E.A7.64 0F 11 FF 06          LTONRR (FF)
Thu 09/20/2018 08:46:37 PM : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 2E.A7.64 33.5E.0F 2B 11 FF    LTONRR (FF)
Thu 09/20/2018 08:46:37 PM : [Std-Direct Ack] 2E.A7.64-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2
Thu 09/20/2018 08:46:37 PM : [D2D EVENT   ] Event [2E A7 64 1] [ST] [255] uom=0 prec=-1
Thu 09/20/2018 08:46:37 PM : [  2E A7 64 1]       ST 255'

Casita3 Lamplync Tests 2E-A7.64
Off Failure
Thu 09/20/2018 08:47:40 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 2E A7 64 0F 13 00
Thu 09/20/2018 08:47:40 PM : [UNKNOWN     ] 02 A7 

Casita3 Lamplync Tests 2E-A7.64
Off Failure
Thu 09/20/2018 08:48:13 PM : [INST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 2E A7 64 0F 14 00

[Techman]

30 minutes ago, iannecj said:

I am suddenly getting problems where my programs which rad sensors and turn on lights arent working.  Reading this forum in many cases it seems this is signal intergity issues but I am wodnering if I have a differnt issue.

Should I always see an ACK from the PLM in Event viewer when I send a manual command through the ISY main page and see the TX-I1?

When I send commands mannual from the main page in ISY....if I do get and ACK...I almsot always get an SRX.  

Around 60% of the time, I do not get the ACK.  ONly the TX-I1 row is event view and of course, the device doesn't change state.

Is Bad PLM the only thing that can explain this?

 

Run the diagnostics on the Lamplinc. - Show device link tables, then compare. 

Does the result show any mismatched links?

What type of load is plugged into the lamplinc?

 

[iannecj]

Before I saw this instruction I read another post eslewhere that suggested delete and relink and plug into outlet with PLM.

 

I was in the process of doing that when I read this.

-I cant re-add the devices...I start linking in ISY hit the setup button but ISY never seems lamp link.

-There is not device plugged into lamplinc

-Other devices I have all over house exibit similar behavor with a TX but no ACK.

-When I try to do diagnostics on another device that exhibits similar behavior (2477S)...I select diagnostics....then show device links table...and I get a system busy, then a % bar, but at about 10% I get "Failed reading device link"

[iannecj]

11 minutes ago, Techman said:

Run the diagnostics on the Lamplinc. - Show device link tables, then compare. 

Does the result show any mismatched links?

What type of load is plugged into the lamplinc?

 

See my post above Techman...and thanks so much for looking in on this

[Techman]

12 hours ago, iannecj said:

See my post above Techman...and thanks so much for looking in on this

It's possible that you have noise on the power line that's interfering with the Insteon signals.  Take a look at this troubleshooting guide.

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=INSTEON:_Troubleshooting_Communications_Errors

 

 

[iannecj]

On 9/21/2018 at 9:48 AM, Techman said:

It's possible that you have noise on the power line that's interfering with the Insteon signals.  Take a look at this troubleshooting guide.

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=INSTEON:_Troubleshooting_Communications_Errors

 

 

Thanks, Techman...got the same advice from Michel in UD support  but these were not correct.  Smarthome said bad PLM right off but PLM out of warranty.

A PLM replacement (after the following sequence on website and doing a restore) solved all the issues.

Right away I could see in event view PLM always responded to a TX-I1 with an Ack which was different from old behavior.  

So to recap, the failure behavior is:

(1.) sporadic behavior...manual commands working some times from ISY others not, programs sporadic too...doesn't matter how close device is to PLM

(2.) devices, even those on the same outlet as PLM, cant be added nor can their links table be shown.

(3.) diagnostics PLM of works and shows PLM connected

(4.) in event viewer for device comms, a manual on or off command will instantly see the INST-TX-I1 go out but the PLM will not respond with ACK a large percentage of the time.

My old PLM was bought  in 2015 and was 2413S V2.0 1444

 

 

 

[Brian H]

When you send a command to the PLM. It should ACK if the command is valid or NAK if it was not ready to process or was an incorrect command.

 

[Techman]

iannecj,

Contrary to what Smarthome said, it's possible that your PLM ran out of memory. It was built in November, 2014, the older PLM's had less memory than the current model.  The issues you describe, especially not being able to add a device sounds more like an out of memory issue than a PLM failure.

If I remember correctly, when you delete a device from a PLM it does not free up the PLM memory space it occupied,  Doing a restore PLM frees up that memory.

Smarthome was, and maybe still is, having a problem with the PLMs failing, it was usually a failure in its power supply.

The newer PLMs have improved power supplies, more memory, updated firmware, and an improved RS232 interface. Replacing your PLM should give you a bigger bang for your buck.

 

 

[Brian H]

All the 2413S PLM units that I have seen. Have the same sized link database of 1000 links. The one being pushed by Smarthome now says >2000 links but I have seen no one actually owning or reporting one. They have made improvements on the power supply and serial daughter board. Over the hardware revisions.

I know my V2.4 still is the 1000 link database and memory chip part number as my V1.0 . I would hope they would give the so called improved one a higher revision number than V2.4.

The early 2412S has 412 link database and the later ones  touted as >2000.

[iannecj]

4 hours ago, Brian H said:

When you send a command to the PLM. It should ACK if the command is valid or NAK if it was not ready to process or was an incorrect command.

 

Yes Thanks Brian H...I was looking for this answer in my original post....when folks didn't address whether the PLM should respond I started to wonder if this behavior could be either bad PLM or bad network comms in the house.  Seems like no response at all from PLM means bad PLM.

[iannecj]

3 hours ago, Techman said:

iannecj,

Contrary to what Smarthome said, it's possible that your PLM ran out of memory. It was built in November, 2014, the older PLM's had less memory than the current model.  The issues you describe, especially not being able to add a device sounds more like an out of memory issue than a PLM failure.

If I remember correctly, when you delete a device from a PLM it does not free up the PLM memory space it occupied,  Doing a restore PLM frees up that memory.

Smarthome was, and maybe still is, having a problem with the PLMs failing, it was usually a failure in its power supply.

The newer PLMs have improved power supplies, more memory, updated firmware, and an improved RS232 interface. Replacing your PLM should give you a bigger bang for your buck.

 

 

I dont think so in my case...(the memory thing I mean...Agree on better modem)

Before buying new PLM, I factory reset my old one and then followed the website instructions on PLM replacement as if it were a new one including the final restore step.

Devices where back but comms still sporadic and most of the attempts to ttalk to PLM resulted in no ACK or NAK as before the reset/restore.

Also, I only have about 15 devices but those are my lights on schedule around property and it was a real pain in a$$ to manually turn on off.

So I dont think it has to do with link memoery.

Once the new PLM went in per website procedure and modem restore done it was 99% back to good.  I did have to relink a few devices and rebuild a program for some reason but from the get go the new PLM ALWAYS gives ACK.

 

I write all this so as to help some other person someday...and thanks all that consulted on this issue.