Does Z-Wave utilize ISY's mesh network and powerline?

[mmb]

I'm looking to purchase a Z-Wave door latch but connectivity is a concern for me. 

Can someone from UDI confirm how the ISY communicates with Z-Wave devices  - mesh network or powerline or both?

Thanks in advance!

mike

[danbutter]

Zwave is a mesh network only.

You will likely need something else in your network other than just a lock and the isy. Unless the room the Isy is in has the door you want the lock on.

It should be a powered device so it can repeat the signal. Battery devices do not function as repeaters.

Read around the forum and you'll find all this info and more.

[Techman]

1 hour ago, mmb said:

I'm looking to purchase a Z-Wave door latch but connectivity is a concern for me. 

Can someone from UDI confirm how the ISY communicates with Z-Wave devices  - mesh network or powerline or both?

Thanks in advance!

mike

You'll need the Zwave dongle for your ISY which enables the ISY to communicate on the Zwave network. Zwave is RF only.  Zwave and Insteon are two different protocols. Both are mesh networks but operate on different frequencies.  The Zwave dongle for the ISY has a limited range so you'll probably also need a zwave repeater. Take a look at the Aeotec site, https://aeotec.com/z-wave-repeater

 

 

[lilyoyo1]

I'd recommend getting at least 2zwave repeating type devices. More may be necessary but I feel 2 should be a minimum anyone has

[mmb]

Thanks everyone, I'll buy the dongle and repeater to get started...

mike

[robin71]

I wanted to install a Kwikset Z-wave deadbolt after upgrading my ISY. After much research I purchased 2 Aeotec sirens which have proven to be excellent Z-wave repeaters and I’ve had no problems with comm issues whatsoever. I haven’t been able to change any of the siren parameters, but it’s not a biggie to me. While a siren might not be as useful as a lamp module most of the time, it serves as an inexpensive addition to a DIY house alarm.


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[wdhille]

Can I ask what type of door latch you bought? I have four of the Schlage Z-Wave locks and frankly don't like them. They work great if they are a few feet from the ISY, or maybe one hop away at best, but in my network I need to jump to a building 50 feet away and after almost one year I've decided the Z-Wave is just unreliable. When I increased the size of the mesh to improve reliability, the existing devices start to not communicate on a random basis. Where I'm at now I have one "repeater" device between the lock and the ISY and it seems to work ok. I first make sure the link between the ISY and the first repeater is rock solid. Then I'll heal the network to get the basement lock online and the other two that are maybe 25 feet away at best. 

So just this week I ordered a WiFi (not ISY/Insteon compatible) lock that I hope I can assign a fixed IP and have it connect to one of the AP's in the outside shop. 

So just in case folks were wondering if I tried to increase the size of my Z-Wave mesh.... I ended up removing all these devices, repairing the links, and then "healing" again, which now heals much quicker without these 9 repeaters.... If the Insteon devices were as bad at communicating as the Z-Wave I'd have tossed all this stuff in the trash long ago....!!!!

Good luck, please let us know how it goes with your lock. 

Wayne

[robin71]

I went with a Kwikset 914.

All the things I considered before purchasing (in case anyone cares).
1. All my existing locks were Kwikset and I liked the fact they make it easy to rekey to match the other locks.
2. It seemed the simplest after reading some of the reviews on the touchscreen models. The 914 is not a touchscreen.
3. According to the ANSI specs, the Kwikset isn’t as strong of a grade as the Schlage offerings, however, I don’t think that’s going to matter much if someone is that determined to break into your house.
4. Kwikset seemed to me to be less problematic among users on these forums

Good Luck!


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[Techman]

The Zwave dongle in the ISY has a limited range, about 20 feet. It's best to have a repeater close to the ISY and one close to your door locks.

The newer ISY Zwave dongle using the series 5 chip should have better coverage as I believe the RF output is higher.

[asbril]

On 10/24/2018 at 11:25 AM, lilyoyo1 said:

I'd recommend getting at least 2zwave repeating type devices. More may be necessary but I feel 2 should be a minimum anyone has

The above comments are all right, but I am a proponent of using  Zwave plug-in devices rather than  the Aeotec repeaters. The reason is that a plug-in device works as a repeater and you can also use to control a lamp or something else.

There are several Zwave plug-in devices on the market. Just make sure that it says that it includes a repeater (as they may all do anyway) and that it is Zwave Plus.

As others have mentioned, the more (non-battery) Zwave devices you have, the better your mesh network.

[lilyoyo1]

21 minutes ago, asbril said:

The above comments are all right, but I am a proponent of using  Zwave plug-in devices rather than  the Aeotec repeaters. The reason is that a plug-in device works as a repeater and you can also use to control a lamp or something else.

There are several Zwave plug-in devices on the market. Just make sure that it says that it includes a repeater (as they may all do anyway) and that it is Zwave Plus.

As others have mentioned, the more (non-battery) Zwave devices you have, the better your mesh network.

I agree with you on that one. I'd rather have a device that can serve dual purposes rather than a one trick pony. 

[wdhille]

Guys:

 

Thanks for the comments. I agree, more Z-Wave devices should be better.... but when I had the all the devices (Z-Wave repeaters) you see in my initial post in the mesh, things slowed down on the Z-Wave end tremendously and became more flakey with the locks. 

So.... two more thoughts.

1) Does the kwikset insist on talking to their "cloud", or can I control it from my internal LAN if I deny the kwikset access to outside internet on the other side of the firewall?

2) Maybe I should put  a second ISY-PRO W/ZW in the remote shop? I'm not sure how much effort that would be, and it would seem like overkill since I can control all my Insteon devices in that shop  with the existing ISY using their PLM/RF technology. 

Wayne

[Techman]

The zwave repeaters/devices should be based on the series 5 chip which has improved security, a 67% greater wireless range and 250% faster communication speed over the series 3 chip (per Aeotec specs).

https://aeotec.com/z-wave-repeater

All zwave products that are not battery operated will act as repeaters.

 

[asbril]

14 minutes ago, Techman said:

250% faster communication

If not mistaken, the faster speed supposes that the rest of your mesh network devices has the same series 5 chip.

[lilyoyo1]

As Asbril pointed out, the benefits of 5 series only matter when all devices are of the same series.

Either way, his issues has nothing to do with what his repeaters are but the network itself. To many people used older devices for many years for him to be having the issues that he is having. 

 

[lilyoyo1]

3 hours ago, wdhille said:

Guys:

 

Thanks for the comments. I agree, more Z-Wave devices should be better.... but when I had the all the devices (Z-Wave repeaters) you see in my initial post in the mesh, things slowed down on the Z-Wave end tremendously and became more flakey with the locks. 

So.... two more thoughts.

1) Does the kwikset insist on talking to their "cloud", or can I control it from my internal LAN if I deny the kwikset access to outside internet on the other side of the firewall?

2) Maybe I should put  a second ISY-PRO W/ZW in the remote shop? I'm not sure how much effort that would be, and it would seem like overkill since I can control all my Insteon devices in that shop  with the existing ISY using their PLM/RF technology. 

Wayne

What kwikset lock are you using that talks to the cloud? Are you using the Kevo now with the kwikset bridge?

[wdhille]

More good questions. 

1) how do I know what Z-Wave chipset is in my ISY and other devices? My ISY is one year old next month. I used the Inovelli repeaters with the Schalge locks (still have three locks online now) and same question WRT chip set. 

2) Sorry for the confusion on the kwikset locks. I don't know if they insist on connecting to the "cloud", but I'm trying to see if they do before I buy one. For sure, this lock will not work unless is connects to the cloud. Array 23503-125 Barrington WiFi Connected Door Lock 

I returned it within 24 hours. It connectd fine to  my network, but since I didn't let it phone home it would not allow me to configure/control it. POS. 

 

Thanks

Wayne

[Techman]

If your ISY is 1 year old then it would have the series 3 chip. A newer ISY dongle is now available that has the series 5 chip but it requires that you also use the latest ISY series 5.xx firmware which is still in beta release.

Most of the Aeotec zwave products are now using the series 5 chips. You would have to look at the specs on your other zwave devices to see what chips they're using.

 

[wdhille]

Techman: OK, thanks for the good advice. I've been holding off on the 5.xx firmware due to it sounds like I might need to rebuild everything. Hope that is not the case. I'm strongly leaning to buying another ISY, putting it in the shop (I have Ethernet/Cat 6) and maybe then migrate to that ISY. 

Thanks

Wayne