Insteon Hub simply doesn't work right

[francorosso]

 I just joined this forum and I'm wondering how to deal with my Insteon issues.  I have about 30 devices, all switchlinc dimmers and lamplincs, acquired over a period of years, so many are old and some are brand new.  For years I used Houselinc software with a powerlinc modem and it all worked well, after getting past the learning curve.  All my troubles started when I "upgraded" to the Hub and the iPhone app/Insteon for hub software on my pc. Nothing works correctly, and I've been trying to get things right for at least two years.  My Hub died and they sent me a new one and it doesn't seem to help.  My guess is that many of my older Switchlincs simply aren't compatible with the Hub. I've done factory resets on all my switches, to clear out previous programming, I've kept all the old communication boosters that I bought years ago and left them plugged into outlets , I've tried another software (Powerhome, bless him for helping me but way too complicated for me I just don't have time to learn it).  I've resisted replacing so many expensive devices that work fine otherwise, especially because I'm suspicious that the hub/app/pc software still may not work.  Although I have been able to create scenes, it takes hours of painstaking effort to create a scene, long waits followed by repeated "manual linking" before the scene is created, and once it is, the ramp rates and light levels don't work according to what I programmed. Some banks of lights will ramp instantly even though everything is programmed at 2 seconds, some will go to different light levels than I programmed, and some just won't communicate even though they are in the same gangbox with another switch that does communicate.  I always enjoyed programming scenes when things worked as they were supposed to, it was almost like magic when I could touch one switch and have a scene with about 15 different lights all work correctly!

I'm done with this and looking for alternatives to make this work/control my scenes or just punt insteon completely.  Has anyone else experienced what I have and what are your suggestions?  I'd prefer not to replace all my switches but If I can't control them I will do whatever I need to do.

 

Frank

[paulbates]

Hi and welcome to the UDI Forums!

First, you do not need to get rid of older devices. I started at the beginning of Insteon as a way off of X10. Many of my Insteon devices are > 10 years old and still work as designed.

One thing to note is that older devices can hold on to left over links and potentially even have corrupted link tables and configurations... brown outs, power blips and lightening strikes have contributed to that in my case over the years. Factory resetting is the best way to deal with that.

I started with Homeseer and switched to the ISY 4 years ago. I cut every thing over to the ISY one room/function at a time.  My suggestion is to go with the ISY and 2413S PLM.

• Proceed one room / function at a time: factory reset the subset of devices and add them to the ISY.
• Create ISY scenes and programs.
• When you're comfortable that the room/function is working, move on and cutover additional rooms/functions until you're done. 

I've been very happy with the ISY's support of my long term investment in Insteon, and have few problems with my insteon network

Paul

[larryllix]

While I concur with PaulBates above, you may have some signal issues affecting your Insteon signals and driving you mad. These can be hard to find but there are procedures to make it somewhat easier. It will take some logical deductions and a bit of work to isolate the problems. Some have found problems and used filterLincs to restrict certain noise from getting into their systems. I use Insteon and have no extenders, active bridges, signal boosters or any other devices to assist Insteon signal.

My home contains two large  120Vac Outback inverters located right beside my ISY994 and PLM. Multiple Insteon dual-band devices probably help my system signals. I still use a few X10 plug-in modules that the PLM also supports but they are not capable of operating at the far opposite end of the house from the PLM. I use them for temporary Christmas lighting where guarantee  of operation is not as critical.

I also experienced Homeseer II for about a month and wasn't happy with it's operation before purchasing an ISY994. Most of my dreams and wishes are fulfilled with my ISY/Insteon/Hue/MiLight/MagicHome/CAO Tags/Alexa/Google Home,  system. I experience very few signal failures. I even use a KPL switch as a combination keypad.

[lilyoyo1]

On 11/27/2018 at 9:05 AM, francorosso said:

 I just joined this forum and I'm wondering how to deal with my Insteon issues.  I have about 30 devices, all switchlinc dimmers and lamplincs, acquired over a period of years, so many are old and some are brand new.  For years I used Houselinc software with a powerlinc modem and it all worked well, after getting past the learning curve.  All my troubles started when I "upgraded" to the Hub and the iPhone app/Insteon for hub software on my pc. Nothing works correctly, and I've been trying to get things right for at least two years.  My Hub died and they sent me a new one and it doesn't seem to help.  My guess is that many of my older Switchlincs simply aren't compatible with the Hub. I've done factory resets on all my switches, to clear out previous programming, I've kept all the old communication boosters that I bought years ago and left them plugged into outlets , I've tried another software (Powerhome, bless him for helping me but way too complicated for me I just don't have time to learn it).  I've resisted replacing so many expensive devices that work fine otherwise, especially because I'm suspicious that the hub/app/pc software still may not work.  Although I have been able to create scenes, it takes hours of painstaking effort to create a scene, long waits followed by repeated "manual linking" before the scene is created, and once it is, the ramp rates and light levels don't work according to what I programmed. Some banks of lights will ramp instantly even though everything is programmed at 2 seconds, some will go to different light levels than I programmed, and some just won't communicate even though they are in the same gangbox with another switch that does communicate.  I always enjoyed programming scenes when things worked as they were supposed to, it was almost like magic when I could touch one switch and have a scene with about 15 different lights all work correctly!

I'm done with this and looking for alternatives to make this work/control my scenes or just punt insteon completely.  Has anyone else experienced what I have and what are your suggestions?  I'd prefer not to replace all my switches but If I can't control them I will do whatever I need to do.

 

Frank

In addition to what's been said already, the insteon hub wasn't designed for older devices. It'll work with them but it works best with modern insteon devices.

Since you've used multiple systems with your devices, I wouldn't be surprised if you have many left over links as PaulBates mentioned. It's imperative that you factory reset your devices before adding them to the ISY (or any system you choose). Failure to do so can turn any good system to a terrible one. This is especially true with powerful controllers such the ISY or homeseer. 

[silverton38]

Some of the older devices will not work with the hub. Remotinc (original) and controlling for example.

I would strongly recommend buying an ISY and using your existing PLM (from Houselinc). You can find refurbished ISYs really cheap on the net and I would suggest getting the Zwave version (future options). The learning curve is small and you will never switch after moving over.

I still work with the hub in a few cases but when the hub fails (and they all do) I switch those uses oner to an ISY. You may still have a PLM failure (I have had many) but I do not recall ever having an ISY failure. I have 17 of them and 2 hubs right now. They only time I removed an ISY is when they upgraded to this recent model (a few years back).

On a separate note: I would only use Dual Band devices on your network. I have been switching people over from the old (wireline only) devices to the dual band. The reliability is so much better. I strive for 100%.

 

 

[francorosso]

Thanks for the replies so far. Guys I don't even know WHAT an ISY is. I thought it was software. Where can I read up on my new project?

And WRT factory reset of all my switches let me make sure I get it-just follow the insteon procedure of air-gapping the set button, correct?

[larryllix]

Typically, Insteon devices that wired into the house wiring have an air gap method of factory resetting them. Battery devices use a battery disconnect andcreconnect while holding the linking button down.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

[oberkc]

4 hours ago, francorosso said:

Thanks for the replies so far. Guys I don't even know WHAT an ISY is.

That statement caught me by surprise, given that you are on a forum for the ISY-994.  

 

On ‎11‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 9:05 AM, francorosso said:

Powerhome, bless him for helping me but way too complicated for me I just don't have time to learn it

And a statement like that gives me some caution towards recommending an ISY-994.  I have never used powerhome, so I cannot compare this to the ISY-994, but be aware that there IS a learning curve for the ISY-994.  I would imagine that most would describe it as harder to learn than the hub.

Having said all that, I am with Paulbates here.  I also have a significant number of older insteon devices.  I have never had a compatibility issue with any of them.  Ironically, the only insteon device that I am aware of with any concerns of compatibility is a newer insteon device: the latest motion sensor and even that one works for me.  There is no need to abandon your insteon devices if you are willing to go with the ISY. 

[silverton38]

30 minutes ago, oberkc said:

That statement caught me by surprise, given that you are on a forum for the ISY-994.  

 

And a statement like that gives me some caution towards recommending an ISY-994.  I have never used powerhome, so I cannot compare this to the ISY-994, but be aware that there IS a learning curve for the ISY-994.  I would imagine that most would describe it as harder to learn than the hub.

Having said all that, I am with Paulbates here.  I also have a significant number of older insteon devices.  I have never had a compatibility issue with any of them.  Ironically, the only insteon device that I am aware of with any concerns of compatibility is a newer insteon device: the latest motion sensor and even that one works for me.  There is no need to abandon your insteon devices if you are willing to go with the ISY. 

I think the latest Beta has taken care of the new motion sensor issues. 

If you used Homelinc then I do not think it is a huge learning curve. 

[francorosso]

On 11/28/2018 at 8:43 PM, oberkc said:

That statement caught me by surprise, given that you are on a forum for the ISY-994.  

 

And a statement like that gives me some caution towards recommending an ISY-994.  I have never used powerhome, so I cannot compare this to the ISY-994, but be aware that there IS a learning curve for the ISY-994.  I would imagine that most would describe it as harder to learn than the hub.

Having said all that, I am with Paulbates here.  I also have a significant number of older insteon devices.  I have never had a compatibility issue with any of them.  Ironically, the only insteon device that I am aware of with any concerns of compatibility is a newer insteon device: the latest motion sensor and even that one works for me.  There is no need to abandon your insteon devices if you are willing to go with the ISY. 

I spent many years with Houselinc and although there was a learning curve, once I was comfortable with it I was happy.  I can learn anything if I want, the issue with Powerhome is just that the in-program help isn't complete.  He's a wonderful guy and willing to provide help over the phone but I couldn't continue that way. The fact that I wasn't aware of what the ISY is isn't an indicator that I'm a dumbass if that's what you meant. I came to this forum looking for alternatives to the Insteon HUB which completely ruined everything I had with Houselinc and a PLM.  The ISY-994 alternative sounds promising and as soon as we get thru the holidays I'll be all over it.   

Thanks for the help.

 

Frank

[Michel Kohanim]

@francorosso,

Welcome to the forum. The reason you didn't know ISY existed is because we are all bunch of perfectionist, anti-marketing, and introvert geeks. I guess we have to start working on our social skills.

With kind regards,
Michel

[oberkc]

I Did not intend to imply that you were dumb. Rather, you indicated a lack of time. It will take a little time to learn the isy994 but I think you will be thrilled with it once you get past the initial learning curve.  There have been some who have complained over the years about the amount of time it takes to learn the isy994. I was just trying to be fully open.

[francorosso]

I'm getting ready to buy an ISY994ZW and I need to confirm that my old 2412 PLM will work with it.  The Universal Devices website says that the ISY requires a 2413.  I'm hoping they don't mention the 2412 just because it's no longer available and not because it's incompatible.

Frank

[oberkc]

I believe it works with older PLMs.  However, I also believe it must be a serial PLM.  Is yours the 2412 (USB) or 2412S (Serial port)?

[francorosso]

1 minute ago, oberkc said:

I believe it works with older PLMs.  However, I also believe it must be a serial PLM.  Is yours the 2412 (USB) or 2412S (Serial port)?

Crap, mine's a USB.  2412UH

[oberkc]

Time for a new one, it looks like.

 

 

[francorosso]

BUT!  I just dug through my old stuff and I also have a 2412N PLM which uses a ethernet connection.  Hopefully this will do the trick!

[oberkc]

I am not as hopeful as you

 

[francorosso]

Oh well I guess I will get another Christmas present for myself


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[larryllix]

31 minutes ago, francorosso said:

Oh well I guess I will get another Christmas present for myself


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

atta boy!

[Brian H]

5 hours ago, francorosso said:

BUT!  I just dug through my old stuff and I also have a 2412N PLM which uses a ethernet connection.  Hopefully this will do the trick!

No the Ethernet 2412N will not work with an ISY994i.

The 2412S if you had one would probably work and it supplies unregulated 12 VDC in the serial cable to power a ISY994i. It is power line only Insteon messaging and has a slower speed processor and link database  memory. A new 2413S would probably be best.

 

[francorosso]

On 12/22/2018 at 1:08 PM, oberkc said:

I believe it works with older PLMs.  However, I also believe it must be a serial PLM.  Is yours the 2412 (USB) or 2412S (Serial port)?

My PLMs are not the right ones.......So I've been shopping for an ISY/PLM bundle but I'm unsure which ISY994 to buy.  Any advice?  This will be for my home, about 30 Insteon devices, mostly switches, and a tilt sensor. I have about 30 scenes(had, since they don't work anymore). Is the ISY994i my best bet?  CURRENTLY,  I don't use IR for anything related to home automation and I don't have any Z wave devices.  The money isn't an issue, I guess I just wonder if the Z wave and IR are something that I may regret not getting. And I am a sucker for tech and home automation.  

[larryllix]

1 hour ago, francorosso said:

My PLMs are not the right ones.......So I've been shopping for an ISY/PLM bundle but I'm unsure which ISY994 to buy.  Any advice?  This will be for my home, about 30 Insteon devices, mostly switches, and a tilt sensor. I have about 30 scenes(had, since they don't work anymore). Is the ISY994i my best bet?  CURRENTLY,  I don't use IR for anything related to home automation and I don't have any Z wave devices.  The money isn't an issue, I guess I just wonder if the Z wave and IR are something that I may regret not getting. And I am a sucker for tech and home automation.  

Just start with the basic ISY994i. Adding the NR, X10, Pro is easy and doesn't really cost more doing it that way. These are just internal software switches that enable those modules.

ZWave board can be just plugged in later if desired.

[paulbates]

2 hours ago, francorosso said:

My PLMs are not the right ones.......So I've been shopping for an ISY/PLM bundle but I'm unsure which ISY994 to buy.  Any advice?  This will be for my home, about 30 Insteon devices, mostly switches, and a tilt sensor. I have about 30 scenes(had, since they don't work anymore). Is the ISY994i my best bet?  CURRENTLY,  I don't use IR for anything related to home automation and I don't have any Z wave devices.  The money isn't an issue, I guess I just wonder if the Z wave and IR are something that I may regret not getting. And I am a sucker for tech and home automation.  

If you are not using IR for automation today, chances are you won't be looking for it tomorrow. As time goes on, home entertainment devices are moving more towards network / BT based communications. ISY V5 Firmware supports Jimbo's Harmony nodeserver, where the ISY can communicate directly with the Logitech Harmony Hub over your LAN. I got the IR version of the ISY with thoughts of IR control.. however the best place for my ISY  and PLM was in the basement next to my electrical panel. Using IR would have meant setting up a whole house IR repeater system. I'm not against that, but during that time I've purchased remotes and entertainment devices that communicate via my local LAN and I didn't want to invest in or support an IR system

My recommendation is an ISY z-wave Pro + PLM... if you get IR, that's ok. That would not be a regrettable choice. Its becoming more likely that you'll find something z-wave you want in the coming years, and then your ISY is ready to go and won't need to be swapped out or opened up. I would contact UDI to see how to get the newest Zwave card that is shipping, not the previous model. 

Paul

[oberkc]

Of course, larryllix is correct.  Zwave and ir can be added later.  Still, I dont find the price that big of a factor an would get zwave, at least, now.  Adding it later just seems like one of those things we never get around to doing.  Let them do the work of installing the board and software.