Athlon Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 I'm at 5.0.14 and I also have the Z-Wave module. Today's one day Smarthome sale on sensors got me to thinking. Which sensor should I get? My goal is to have my Echo's make an announcement if either of my two garage doors are left open for more than 30 minutes. Currently, I have no home automation devices on them, nor do I need to auto open or close them. I'm leaning toward the 2843-222. Are they impacted by cold temps? Link to comment
paulbates Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 I use those on doors and windows and they work great. I typically see more than a year on battery life, but that depends how much the door / window is opened or closed. Temps: Though not these specifically, I use other insteon devices and battery wireless sensors outside in Michigan year round. They've seen -20F in the past. Based on that experience I would deploy these in the cold. This next week will potentially be a change to set that bar lower... Installation: I use the iolinc with magnetic sensors designed for a garage setup. For this application, the sensor unit can take quite a beating and sometimes the mounting locations are not ideal. I would still use the iolinc if starting over today. The iolinc is single band, however I've had mine in my garage since 2011 along with a keypad key that lights up when the door is open, and pressing the keypad key operates the door. Paul Link to comment
jec6613 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Yes impacted by cold temps, and you'd have to rig up some sort of janky connection to make them sense the door since they're too insensitive for a garage door. The garage door IOLinc is much better. Link to comment
Athlon Posted January 25, 2019 Author Share Posted January 25, 2019 Wow - you guys are quick! Thank you for the advice. Too bad they're not on sale like the others are - may get those anyway... You are both talking about the 74551? Link to comment
mwester Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 I'll be different. Avoid Insteon-based solutions -- instead consider the use of a z-wave tilt sensor, or for a complete solution, a z-wave garage door opener device. Link to comment
Athlon Posted January 25, 2019 Author Share Posted January 25, 2019 13 minutes ago, mwester said: I'll be different. Avoid Insteon-based solutions -- instead consider the use of a z-wave tilt sensor, or for a complete solution, a z-wave garage door opener device. Why? Do you have a specific product recommendation? Link to comment
mwester Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 As for why, well, it's because it's my belief that Insteon has no long-term future as a company or as a technology -- the current owners show no interest in new market areas nor in cooperating with partners, and the current technology remains tied to the zero-crossing point of the AC waveform, accurate detection of which is becoming extraordinarily difficult given modern high-efficiency power supplies and lighting. I use an older version of the GoControl/Linear GD00Z-4 garage door controller. It's a proper garage door controller, unlike the Insteon solution, and offers a secure comms connection as well as the recommended audible and visual alert signal before closing the door. The GD00Z unit uses a tilt sensor on the door itself to detect when the door is open -- there are other companies (such as Enerwave) who offer just the tilt-sensor as a z-wave device if you don't need to open/close the garage door. Link to comment
lilyoyo1 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Here we go again. Year 7 of insteon's demise. I guess if something is said long enough eventually someone can say they were right. There is no perfect automation system. All have their own problems and risks. If you have many zwave devices right now and want control of the door then I would go with with Mwester and use the zwave option as I agree it is a better option. However, if status is all that your looking for and you're already using insteon, then the 2450 with a sensor such as https://www.smarthome.com/seco-larm-sm-226l-3-magnetic-garage-door-contact-switch.html would be the better option. Link to comment
kclenden Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 3 hours ago, mwester said: As for why, well, it's because it's my belief that Insteon has no long-term future as a company or as a technology The point made by mwester is valid for any technology, since eventually all technology is replaced. But everyone defines "long-term" differently. Is it five years? Ten years? Longer? Should you still buy your music on CDs? Movies on DVD or BlueRay? Should you buy SATA devices? USB devices? How about a Tivo DVR? Everyone will answer those questions differently. The fact that mwester has concerns about Insteon is relevant. When there are enough mwesters, Insteon will go the way of IDE devices, but the same can eventually be said of all technology, whether home automation related or not. Link to comment
mwester Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 It's not a matter of the technology being replaced. It's a matter of Insteon being single-sourced and proprietary, and then failing to keep up with the rest of the world. IMO, if a company wants to be closed and proprietary, that's up to them -- but to be successful, that demands that they take the sole burden of ensuring that their devices work as the technology around them changes (e.g. LED lighting, switching power supplies, etc). In other words, if my Sony BlueRay player sucks, I can go buy another brand that works better in my home. I can do that with Z-Wave. But, if my Insteon PLM dies every two years, for example, I'm stuck with buying a new one, 'cause they don't care, and I have no other source to go to. So, yeah, if all you want is seven-year-old technology, that works with seven-year-old lighting, then the seven-year-old Insteon technology is great! Except for the PLM, which you'll have replaced at least three times in that seven years... Link to comment
jec6613 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 1 hour ago, mwester said: It's not a matter of the technology being replaced. It's a matter of Insteon being single-sourced and proprietary, and then failing to keep up with the rest of the world. IMO, if a company wants to be closed and proprietary, that's up to them -- but to be successful, that demands that they take the sole burden of ensuring that their devices work as the technology around them changes (e.g. LED lighting, switching power supplies, etc). In other words, if my Sony BlueRay player sucks, I can go buy another brand that works better in my home. I can do that with Z-Wave. But, if my Insteon PLM dies every two years, for example, I'm stuck with buying a new one, 'cause they don't care, and I have no other source to go to. So, yeah, if all you want is seven-year-old technology, that works with seven-year-old lighting, then the seven-year-old Insteon technology is great! Except for the PLM, which you'll have replaced at least three times in that seven years... I think something missing here is that, generally, Insteon is at least on par if not beyond many of their competitors. There's nothing like the Keypads, for instance, and the dimmers are only matched in Z-Wave by Leviton (and even then not quite matched), which come in at the same price point. The newest Insteon dimmers are really second only to Lutron, for instance, and have been updated even over the last two years and are now thinner and even higher quality than the ones I put in when I first bought my house. It's not perfect, but if you want a bulletproof reliable system, they're still top notch and slowly but surely moving the bar forward. Personally though, I have a primary Insteon system, but recognize that Z-Wave also provides unique devices that Insteon doesn't (and vis versa), so I have the Z-Wave module installed as well. Not really used yet, but the next big expansion is into Z-Wave with smart locks and enough outlets to support a decent network. Link to comment
larryllix Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 IMHO Insteon has put out top notch equipment for the basics, and their original releases, like plug in modules and light switches. Insteon protocol is one of the best, or the best, out in the common masses so far. However, Insteon's battery operated devices are some of cheapest junk I have seen. It seems like there is a divided attitude inside the Insteon manufacturing team and it is killing the company. No matter who has been in charge of the company it seems there is some factor or hidden person that doesn't want to allow quick progress. Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk Link to comment
lilyoyo1 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 3 hours ago, mwester said: It's not a matter of the technology being replaced. It's a matter of Insteon being single-sourced and proprietary, and then failing to keep up with the rest of the world. IMO, if a company wants to be closed and proprietary, that's up to them -- but to be successful, that demands that they take the sole burden of ensuring that their devices work as the technology around them changes (e.g. LED lighting, switching power supplies, etc). In other words, if my Sony BlueRay player sucks, I can go buy another brand that works better in my home. I can do that with Z-Wave. But, if my Insteon PLM dies every two years, for example, I'm stuck with buying a new one, 'cause they don't care, and I have no other source to go to. So, yeah, if all you want is seven-year-old technology, that works with seven-year-old lighting, then the seven-year-old Insteon technology is great! Except for the PLM, which you'll have replaced at least three times in that seven years... This sole proprietor stuff is so much b.s unless you plan on using multiple brands of switches in your home you'll still be in the same boat. At least come up with some other argument. Especially considering the ISY supports both protocols so that's a moot point anyway. With every bulb in my home being led and many other users on here using led bulbs with Insteon I do think that is an incorrect statement about them only being used with older lighting systems. Even at 7 year old technology as you claim, many basic features that insteon has that truly matter are still not available in zwave switches. Just because something looks shiny and new doesn't mean it's better. Zwave had improved over the last few years but they still have room for improvement. None of this matters however. The op asked for a cost effective solution. Pushing him towards a solution that will most likely cost him hundreds of dollars for a 60 dollar solution simply due to opinion doesn't make sense Link to comment
Athlon Posted January 26, 2019 Author Share Posted January 26, 2019 Gentlemen, interesting debate. I'll likely go with the IO Link as I'm familiar with the Insteon line and have had very good luck with it over the years. The Z-wave alternative would be a close second for me (at a similar price point). The good news is I have an ISY which supports both, as well as a bunch of TP-Link stuff I have. If either should fail, or go the way of the dodo bird, I'll still be covered. Link to comment
Athlon Posted January 26, 2019 Author Share Posted January 26, 2019 Looks like Smarthome is having another sale today - 50% off Insteon stuff. I have two garage doors, so I need two 74551s. Question - will installing these allow me to still use our existing remotes? I would think so, but want to be sure. My guess is when I use an existing remote, the IOLink will know whether a door is opened or closed and report that activity to my ISY. Link to comment
paulbates Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 31 minutes ago, Athlon said: Looks like Smarthome is having another sale today - 50% off Insteon stuff. I have two garage doors, so I need two 74551s. Question - will installing these allow me to still use our existing remotes? I would think so, but want to be sure. My guess is when I use an existing remote, the IOLink will know whether a door is opened or closed and report that activity to my ISY. Yes. I was able to wire the IOlincs relay across the contacts to the door control in the garage and was able to mount the sensor near by. We use the openers wireless remotes in our cars normally. The contacts "click" the door control as if you were pressing it manually (see note below). The sensors read and report if the door is in position. For me, that's "down". If its not down, a keypad key lights up... if it is down, its off. As a note, some door controllers do not have easily accessible contact only sensors any longer. You will want to check the manual, or post a link to the pdf for the doors manual and i'll take a look Paul Link to comment
Athlon Posted January 26, 2019 Author Share Posted January 26, 2019 Thanks Paul. This is a picture of what I have: (I can take a better photo if needed.) Link to comment
paulbates Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 I had to do a double-take.. is that a craftsman? If yes, I have that one. I attached the IOlinc relay (NO & Comm terminals) across the screws on the back of the manual door control... the big button you hit manually to activate the door. Paul Link to comment
Athlon Posted January 26, 2019 Author Share Posted January 26, 2019 2 minutes ago, paulbates said: I had to do a double-take.. is that a craftsman? If yes, I have that one. I attached the IOlinc relay (NO & Comm terminals) across the screws on the back of the manual door control... the big button you hit manually to activate the door. Paul It's a Chamberlain - looking for the manual right now... I suppose I could figure out which two wires go to the large button (open/close door) and connect the IOLink to those, rather than the smaller buttons that control the lights. Link to comment
Athlon Posted January 26, 2019 Author Share Posted January 26, 2019 Here's the manual - they talk about wiring on page 16. https://www.chamberlain.com/catalogresourcesv3/en-us/shared/files/tucmanuals/114a4256.pdf Link to comment
paulbates Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 Its been 8 years since I set it up, but it looks remarkably like mine. I remember attaching the iolinc's relay here, where it says "terminal screws": My garage had a 3 gang outlet right near there so the iolinc could be plugged in, wired to the nearby door control and I installed the magnetic sensors nearby. Paul Link to comment
paulbates Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 If you want to be sure before you order, take the cover off, and use a short piece of wire across the contacts, it should activate the door. That simulates what the iolinc will do. Link to comment
Athlon Posted January 26, 2019 Author Share Posted January 26, 2019 Yeah - the button to control the doors is large, lit and has 3 buttons in it - 2 control the lights. My 3 gang outlets are in the ceiling near the motor (picture I posted). I'll wire the IOLink in parallel to the 2 wires coming from the large button (the one that controls the door), and put the sensors where suggested near the top center of the doors. I can plug the IOLink into the ceiling where the motors are plugged in now. Thank you for your help - I just ordered them. Link to comment
larryllix Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 After about 6 years of my old garage door opener I added another just before Christmas. Suddenly my Insteon problems got worse and things in the house were acting very badly. After replacing my PLM I realised the timing indicated the new battery backed up DC motor GDP was making a lot of powerline noise. After doing some experiments I discovered the older ac motor GDO was making some powerline noise as well. After plugging both units into a different circuit, I ordered and installed two filterLincs and my Insteon system works without any comm problems again. Moral of the story is a new DC motor unit, and an ac motor unit, both made a mess out of my ISY HA. Strange that both technologies produced so much noise. Beware of GDOs. Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk Link to comment
kclenden Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 15 hours ago, larryllix said: After about 6 years of my old garage door opener I added another just before Christmas. Suddenly my Insteon problems got worse and things in the house were acting very badly. Thanks for posting this. I replaced my GDO a couple months ago and have noticed some degraded Insteon traffic. Not degraded enough to get me off my butt to do some troubleshooting, but enough to be annoying. I didn't even give it a thought when I replaced the old GDO with a battery backed up GDO that I was potentially introducing a signal sucker or noise maker. Guess that says something about how well my Insteon network has functioned that I don't even give a second thought when introducing ridiculously obvious electronic troublemakers. Anyway, I have an extra FilterLinc lying around so I think I'll use it for the GDO and see if the degradation is mitigated. Link to comment
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