Space Heater Not Working with SwitchLinc/ApplianceLinc

[elite-rob]

Hello Everyone,

I just installed a Ceiling Mount space heat (https://www.amazon.com/Comfort-Zone-CZQTV5M-Ceiling-Quartz/dp/B002R686FQ).

Now I'm trying to connect it up to a KeypadLinc.

I added an older ApplianceLinc (#2456S3) and plugged in the heater to the controller outlet.

Based on what I can see in my ISY console, the KeypadLinc is properly turning the outlet on or off.

However, even when it's "on", the heater doesn't actually turn on. Pulling the power cord does nothing.

I then swapped out the ApplianceLinc for an older LampLinc (#2456D3). Same result. No luck turning on the heater. It seems to respond to the KeyPad linc, but doesn't actually work with the heater.

Does the heater have some sort of special requirement that I'm missing, which is why it won't work with SwitchLinc/ApplianceLinc?

Any other ideas?

Thanks!

[hart2hart]

Hello Everyone,
I just installed a Ceiling Mount space heat (https://www.amazon.com/Comfort-Zone-CZQTV5M-Ceiling-Quartz/dp/B002R686FQ).
Now I'm trying to connect it up to a KeypadLinc.
I added an older ApplianceLinc (#2456S3) and plugged in the heater to the controller outlet.
Based on what I can see in my ISY console, the KeypadLinc is properly turning the outlet on or off.
However, even when it's "on", the heater doesn't actually turn on. Pulling the power cord does nothing.
I then swapped out the ApplianceLinc for an older LampLinc (#2456D3). Same result. No luck turning on the heater. It seems to respond to the KeyPad linc, but doesn't actually work with the heater.
Does the heater have some sort of special requirement that I'm missing, which is why it won't work with SwitchLinc/ApplianceLinc?
Any other ideas?
Thanks!

Realize these are elementary questions but provides a starting point to help.


Do you have a lamp to plug into appliancelinc switchlinc combination to confirm it’s working?

Does heater work when plugged into standard outlet?

[elvisimprsntr]

Connecting an electric space heater up to Insteon control is such a bad idea I don’t know where to begin. This may be even more idiotic than using Insteon for garage door control. Just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should. Be sure to ask your local fire department and insurance agent if this is a good idea. I loose all hope for humanity when I read threads like this.

 

 

[lilyoyo1]

I definitely would not have hooked it up to a dimmer

[jec6613]

56 minutes ago, elvisimprsntr said:

Connecting an electric space heater up to Insteon control is such a bad idea I don’t know where to begin. This may even more idiotic than using Insteon for garage door control. Just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should. Be sure to ask your local fire department and insurance agent if this is a good idea. I loose all hope for humanity when I read threads like this.

It's fairly common to use an ApplianceLinc or other relay in Insteon to respond to call for heat/call for cool from their thermostats, particularly for auxiliary heat and A/C.  Provided there's another fail safe(s) involved and it's in a place that it could safely run all day if somebody left it on (you know, like people do normally with these things) there's not really an issue.  It's sure as hell more secure than most smart thermostats, anyway.

[elvisimprsntr]

It's fairly common to use an ApplianceLinc or other relay in Insteon to respond to call for heat/call for cool from their thermostats, particularly for auxiliary heat and A/C.  Provided there's another fail safe(s) involved and it's in a place that it could safely run all day if somebody left it on (you know, like people do normally with these things) there's not really an issue.  It's sure as hell more secure than most smart thermostats, anyway.

Ask the guy who burned down his house when he connected up his daughters halogen desk lamp to Insteon. She left the window open and a random all on command turned on the lamp. The wind blew the drapes and/or paper on the hot halogen lamp and burn down his house, or at least part of it.

If you still think it’s a good idea to hook up an electric space heater to Insteon, good luck getting anything out of your insurance company after they claim negligence on your part. And god forbid should any injury or death come to your family or a guest in your home.

[jec6613]

2 hours ago, elvisimprsntr said:

Ask the guy who burned down his house when he connected up his daughters halogen desk lamp to Insteon. She left the window open and a random all on command turned on the lamp. The wind blew the drapes and/or paper on the hot halogen lamp and burn down his house, or at least part of it.


If you still think it’s a good idea to hook up an electric space heater to Insteon, good luck getting anything out of your insurance company after they claim negligence on your part. And god forbid should any injury or death come to your family or a guest in your home. 

 

I've never experienced a random all on command (nor do I think they'd even work on the newer 2012 onward protocol devices), but that's why I specified where it could safely run all day.  This one looks like something bolted to the ceiling, and normally non-mounted space heaters have tip sensors for exactly that issue.

If it happened because his daughter's halogen lamp was in a location where drapes and/or paper could cause it to catch on fire, given a child's proclivity for leaving things turned on that's a much bigger problem and would have possibly happened some day anyway.

[Techman]

7 hours ago, elite-rob said:

Hello Everyone,

I just installed a Ceiling Mount space heat (https://www.amazon.com/Comfort-Zone-CZQTV5M-Ceiling-Quartz/dp/B002R686FQ).

Now I'm trying to connect it up to a KeypadLinc.

I added an older ApplianceLinc (#2456S3) and plugged in the heater to the controller outlet.

Based on what I can see in my ISY console, the KeypadLinc is properly turning the outlet on or off.

However, even when it's "on", the heater doesn't actually turn on. Pulling the power cord does nothing.

I then swapped out the ApplianceLinc for an older LampLinc (#2456D3). Same result. No luck turning on the heater. It seems to respond to the KeyPad linc, but doesn't actually work with the heater.

Does the heater have some sort of special requirement that I'm missing, which is why it won't work with SwitchLinc/ApplianceLinc?

Any other ideas?

Thanks!

 

Your heater is drawing 1500 watts,  about 12 1/2 amps. That may be exceeding the rating on an on/off module or appliance link. Check the modules specs to see what the maximum current capacity is for a resistive load (which is what the heater is).

If you try to use it on a lamplinc you'll damage the module.

[Brian H]

The older power line only 2456D3 LampLinc. You blew its internal fuse on the AC line input. If it turned On with the heater connected.  As it is a 5S4A four amp slow blow fuse. With wire leads, between the AC Line input prong and the PC Boards AC line input.

[simplextech]

If you have the z-wave card the Zooz ZSE15 is designed for heavy appliance loads and can handle 15amps.  I have several of these in use for various functions and one is for a space heater that I use when I go out to the garage in the work area.

[Brian H]

I checked a 2635-222 On/Off and 2456S3 {V1.3 & V4.1} ApplianceLinc. They both indicate 15 Amps Resistive. So they should be OK.

The 2456D3 and 2457D2 LampLincs are 300 watts and would be overloaded by the hearer. The 2456D3 has a fuse and it would be blown. Can't say about a 2457D2.

Have you tried the Insteon modules with another load to see if they are going On? Have you tried the heater in an AC outlet to verify it is not working. Double check the modules where not linked so that an On command to the scene does not turn the module Off.

[io_guy]

On 1/27/2019 at 3:37 PM, elvisimprsntr said:

 

Ask the guy who burned down his house when he connected up his daughters halogen desk lamp to Insteon. She left the window open and a random all on command turned on the lamp. The wind blew the drapes and/or paper on the hot halogen lamp and burn down his house, or at least part of it.

If you still think it’s a good idea to hook up an electric space heater to Insteon, good luck getting anything out of your insurance company after they claim negligence on your part. And god forbid should any injury or death come to your family or a guest in your home.

 

I do this in two separate applications.  The difference being both devices have built-in thermostats to ensure over-temperature protection.  The 240V heater actually goes through a proper Aube relay.  The purpose of my automation is to:

• Disable their use when I'm not at home
• Reduce use when electricity rates are high (time-of-use)
• Get better temperature control of the one heater which only has an analog thermostat

Without a thermostat/sensor protection between the ISY and the heater I agree with elvis, may be a bit of insurance risk.

[elite-rob]

Thanks for all the posts, and apologies for the late reply on my part.

I should add some context, especially in light of all the people in this thread saying that connecting the heater via Insteon is silly and going to burn my house down.

The heater turns on/off with a manual switch (pull cord).

In general, I always try to remember to turn it off after use.

However, I was trying to be extra cautious in the event that it is accidentally kept 'on'.

So, my idea was to use the Insteon integration to have a program that automatically turns the power to the heater OFF at various times during the day.

This way even if the heater itself is turned on, the outlet it's plugged into would be turned off....so the unit would be off.

My goal is to use this as a fail-safe to ensure the heater doesn't stay on forever without me realizing.

The concept of it randomly turning on doesn't really apply because ideally the actual heater is being turned off.... so if an 'on' command was sent, the heater is still off.

I hope that makes sense.

If anyone has any clever ideas on the best way to execute this, I'd love some direction.

I can tell you that when the heater is plugged directly into an outlet it works perfectly.
And, the Insteon ApplianceLinc and LampLinc did work when I tested it with other devices (just not the heater).

I had a hunch this was related to the heavy load of the heater, but this is all a tad too technical for me. I was just hoping I could plug it in and have it work...but it's never that easy.

I'm open to any ideas for my "turn off heater fail safe" concept here..... happy to purchase whatever devices I may need.

Cheers.

[Brian H]

What happens if you turn the 2456S3 On with the heater connected turned Off with it manual switch. Then use the manual On/Off switch on the heater  to turn it On with the 2456S3 already On?

 

[paulbates]

A few more questions to help debug

• The appliance module has a relay in it that is used to switch the power. There should be an audible "click" when its turned on and off, either locally on the button of the appliance module, or remotely with the ISY or insteon device. Did you / do you hear that when:
  • The heater is plugged in?
  • When the heater is not plugged in? If you don't hear that, the module is likely damaged
     
• Did the appliance module become hot or make and kind of noises when it was on and the heater plugged in and turned on? 
   
• I'm not clear about the initial current draw of a spaceheater, but wondering that even though the appliance module is within the running specs, its being overwhelmed at startup. Can you set the heater to its lowest setting with the pull string, and try again? 

Please don't even test a lamplinc for anything other than lights. A spaceheater is far beyond its design. I would be suspicious of the one used to test the spaceheater and throw it out. 

Paul

[smokegrub]

My comment is, no doubt, premature given it appears you need more testing, but I use a relay to safely provide power to an electric water heater. The relay is turned on and off using an Insteon module. The relay I use is in a panel box adjacent to the water heater. That may not work for you but then again others here may be able to guide you to another relay that is less obtrusive should you have to use that option. I am always cautious of amperage demands when using Insteon switches.