Driveway sensor recommendation

[LFMc]

Well, it finally happened to me. Someone walked up my drive through my open gate, opened my unlocked truck and stole my 8 year old, not recently backed up laptop (probably worth $50 on ebay) that wasn't supposed to be in my truck. Too many coincidences to not get my attention. Ok, I leave my auto gate open, but I always lock my truck (I can blame this one on my wife) and I have a Blue Iris camera pointing right at the truck with a trigger for my yard lights. But he managed to not trigger them. If I boost my sensitivity, I get 100's of false triggers, so I lost my laptop instead. 

Soooo, I have been contemplating way too long on putting in  a driveway sensor that triggers when anything comes thru my open gate, car or pedestrian. To do so, I need a minimum range of 30 feet. I only have power on one side, but if I have too, I can add power to the other. It would just be a lot more work than I want to do. Of course it needs a dry contact, NC or NO to hook up to my Insteon IO link. The advantage of the driveway sensor is to have more accuracy for triggering cameras, lights, etc. with a lot less false alarms.  I assume also this would need to be a photoelectric IR beam and not a buried sensor, besides my concrete drive would limit me from burying it and I think they don't work on pedestrian traffic. 

Does anyone have a driveway sensor suggestion of something that works well for them? 

[lilyoyo1]

I know seco larm has some outdoor ir sensors that you could use

 

http://www.seco-larm.com/E-9680-10B25

Edited April 29, 2019 by lilyoyo1

[LFMc]

18 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

I know seco larm has some outdoor ir sensors that you could use

http://www.seco-larm.com/E-9680-10B25

Thanks, I have been looking at this brand, but had forgotten about this model. 25' distance is on the edge for me, but it might be worth a try.

[kissfan]

Dakota is the brand you seek.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DennisC]

https://www.guardlinesecurity.com/products/guardline-500-ft-wireless-driveway-alarm?variant=1772214190090&keyword=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIv_KutLf24QIVBiSGCh0magRuEAQYGiABEgKYS_D_BwE

This is what I use.

[LFMc]

14 hours ago, DennisC said:

https://www.guardlinesecurity.com/products/guardline-500-ft-wireless-driveway-alarm?variant=1772214190090&keyword=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIv_KutLf24QIVBiSGCh0magRuEAQYGiABEgKYS_D_BwE

This is what I use.

thanks, but as I mentioned in my needs, I have a motion detector via Blue Iris cameras and it is next to impossible to tune them to be highly sensitive and not have lots of false positives. Now I want to augment BI with a beam type sensor to have a trigger that can eliminate almost all false positives without eliminating the true positive event. 

[simplextech]

15 minutes ago, LFMc said:

thanks, but as I mentioned in my needs, I have a motion detector via Blue Iris cameras and it is next to impossible to tune them to be highly sensitive and not have lots of false positives. Now I want to augment BI with a beam type sensor to have a trigger that can eliminate almost all false positives without eliminating the true positive event. 

The GuardLine products support external 12v relay connections (IOLink or other contact sensor).  You can use this to then integrate the driveway sensor with a device in ISY.

[DennisC]

In my case, I use the relay output to my Elk system. I get very few false alarms. All you need to do is maintain the batteries. Mine lasted 6 to 7 months.

[palayman]

On 4/30/2019 at 10:12 AM, LFMc said:

thanks, but as I mentioned in my needs, I have a motion detector via Blue Iris cameras and it is next to impossible to tune them to be highly sensitive and not have lots of false positives. Now I want to augment BI with a beam type sensor to have a trigger that can eliminate almost all false positives without eliminating the true positive event. 

I'm using some Hikvision cameras.  Like you say, motion detection creates too many false alarms.  However, I set up the line crossing mode and this works really well.  Not many false alarms except for the occasional cat or opossum taking a stroll around the porch.

[LFMc]

5 minutes ago, palayman said:

I'm using some Hikvision cameras.  Like you say, motion detection creates too many false alarms.  However, I set up the line crossing mode and this works really well.  Not many false alarms except for the occasional cat or opossum taking a stroll around the porch.

I agree and I am using Hikvisions also, great cameras, except for my front camera is a Foscam. I'm going to replace it with an HD Hikvision also. I tried zones previously but the problem is the field of view is just too narrow at that distance. Only a few degrees to cover if someone is trying to avoid the camera, plus the background of the gate is a road with cars passing by regularly. I really like the Blue Iris software. But you can adjust til the cows come home and it won't be as good, in my case, as multiple infrared beams.  So I'm going to use a belt and suspenders.  Of course it doesn't stop someone from crawling over the wall. lol. 

[KeviNH]

On 4/30/2019 at 10:12 AM, LFMc said:

thanks, but as I mentioned in my needs, I have a motion detector via Blue Iris cameras and it is next to impossible to tune them to be highly sensitive and not have lots of false positives.

That's my experience with every visible light camera I've installed outdoors -- in-camera motion in particular is just too prone to false-positives to rely on it for alerting.

OTOH, disk space is so cheap now that (assuming hardwired PoE powered cameras), it just makes sense to enable 24x7 recording and then only send an alert based on more reliable triggering inputs.

What I have done is set my NVR to record constantly, but also enabled the camera (could also do it in NVR) motion detection and setup "HTTP alert"  to run an ISY program each time the video analytics motion detection triggers.    This gives me several options to ignore false alarms, for example to only react if ISY has also seen input from a PIR motion sensor or driveway alarm, or even make it less likely to react if the weather module says current conditions are windy!

 

On 4/29/2019 at 1:55 PM, kissfan said:

Dakota is the brand you seek.

Dakota has dropped many of their more HA-friendly products from the lineup, but still makes a reliable "vehicle sensor" (buried magnetic field probe coil) which could possibly even detect the gate being swung open.

Edited May 2, 2019 by KeviNH
Dakota

[UD2)17rrh]

Have you or anyone been able to integrate a Guardline Motion Sensor system into your ISY setup?  If so I would be curious to know how.  Many thanks.

[simplextech]

35 minutes ago, UD2)17rrh said:

Have you or anyone been able to integrate a Guardline Motion Sensor system into your ISY setup?  If so I would be curious to know how.  Many thanks.

Not yet into the ISY, however a typical integration is through the receiver dry contact connections.  Wire those to either a IOlinc or to a Open/Close sensor to then send the open/close event to the ISY.

[UD2)17rrh]

2 hours ago, simplextech said:

Not yet into the ISY, however a typical integration is through the receiver dry contact connections.  Wire those to either a IOlinc or to a Open/Close sensor to then send the open/close event to the ISY.

Would you mind clarifying?  I have an IO linc but I am not certain how to accomplish the wiring.  Essentially I want the Guardline receiver to trigger a motion event to the I/O linc and then programming to send an Insteon signal after that.  Is that possible?  Many thanks.

[simplextech]

8 minutes ago, UD2)17rrh said:

Would you mind clarifying?  I have an IO linc but I am not certain how to accomplish the wiring.  Essentially I want the Guardline receiver to trigger a motion event to the I/O linc and then programming to send an Insteon signal after that.  Is that possible?  Many thanks.

Which model of Guardline do you have?  

I ask because "most" have 12v contacts accessible via an access port on the bottom of the receiver.  These can be used to connect to a sensor.  This sensor either an IOLinc or an open/close door sensor can then send the Insteon signal to the ISY to use in programs.  There are usually multiple contacts to support multiple guardline sensors.  You'll need to refer to the Guardline manual for which contacts go to which sensor ID.

The IOLinc and the Insteon Open/Close sensor both have "Sensor Inputs".  The IOLinc also has a  output which won't be used in this scenario.  

Connect the Guardline receiver with proper wiring (22? 20?g if I remember currently... standard security wiring) from the terminals on the receiver to the matching terminals on the sensor input on the IOLinc or the open/close sensor.  This should be done AFTER you have added the device to your ISY and verified it's communicating.  Then unplug, remove battery and wire the Insteon device.  Then perform a test activation by triggering the guardline sensor.  The ISY node should open/close with the Guardline sensor status.  The IOLinc has lots of configuration options that I haven't even touched on but for this purpose shouldn't be necessary as only the sensor input is being used.

 

[DennisC]

12 hours ago, UD2)17rrh said:

Have you or anyone been able to integrate a Guardline Motion Sensor system into your ISY setup?  If so I would be curious to know how.  Many thanks.

I am doing this but instead of using an I/O Linc, I'm using an Elk security system. The Elk makes it easy to bring non-supported items in to the ISY.

However, an I/O Linc should work just fine.

[UD2)17rrh]

On 9/6/2019 at 11:07 PM, simplextech said:

Which model of Guardline do you have?  

I ask because "most" have 12v contacts accessible via an access port on the bottom of the receiver.  These can be used to connect to a sensor.  This sensor either an IOLinc or an open/close door sensor can then send the Insteon signal to the ISY to use in programs.  There are usually multiple contacts to support multiple guardline sensors.  You'll need to refer to the Guardline manual for which contacts go to which sensor ID.

The IOLinc and the Insteon Open/Close sensor both have "Sensor Inputs".  The IOLinc also has a  output which won't be used in this scenario.  

Connect the Guardline receiver with proper wiring (22? 20?g if I remember currently... standard security wiring) from the terminals on the receiver to the matching terminals on the sensor input on the IOLinc or the open/close sensor.  This should be done AFTER you have added the device to your ISY and verified it's communicating.  Then unplug, remove battery and wire the Insteon device.  Then perform a test activation by triggering the guardline sensor.  The ISY node should open/close with the Guardline sensor status.  The IOLinc has lots of configuration options that I haven't even touched on but for this purpose shouldn't be necessary as only the sensor input is being used.

 

Thanks for the reply but I want to be sure what I am going to do is correct.  I have a Guardline 500 Ft. Range Outdoor Sensor with the corresponding Guardline receiver.  That receiver has the following terminals:

-, +, NC, COM, NO.

The I/O linc has:

5V, Gnd, Sensor, N/C, N/O, COM.

I am not certain what to connect to what and don't wish to damage either component.  Help appreciated.

 

[apostolakisl]

Have you considered using two cameras with blue iris?  With polyglot, you can have a blue iris node on your ISY allowing camera motion events to trigger ISY.  You can easily write a program that requires both cameras to be in motion alert positive mode before ISY then triggers a notification alarm alerting you.  Between that, and good placement of the camera/field of view/blue iris motion sensitivity/location I would think you could get a very high sensitivity/specificity.  Things like a bug flying in front of the camera will no longer be an issue.  You could even add a third camera.  Nice thing about this solution is that you hardly need to buy anything or do much work.  You only need the camera and a place to plug it in.  You might need a raspberry pi if you don't already have polyglot on your ISY.

Edited October 7, 2019 by apostolakisl

[UD2)17rrh]

8 hours ago, apostolakisl said:

Have you considered using two cameras with blue iris?  With polyglot, you can have a blue iris node on your ISY allowing camera motion events to trigger ISY.  You can easily write a program that requires both cameras to be in motion alert positive mode before ISY then triggers a notification alarm alerting you.  Between that, and good placement of the camera/field of view/blue iris motion sensitivity/location I would think you could get a very high sensitivity/specificity.  Things like a bug flying in front of the camera will no longer be an issue.  You could even add a third camera.  Nice thing about this solution is that you hardly need to buy anything or do much work.  You only need the camera and a place to plug it in.  You might need a raspberry pi if you don't already have polyglot on your ISY.

Thanks for the idea but the issue here is distance from my wifi.  The capability of the Guardline sensor to cover that distance is the benefit.

[apostolakisl]

1 hour ago, UD2)17rrh said:

Thanks for the idea but the issue here is distance from my wifi.  The capability of the Guardline sensor to cover that distance is the benefit.

Was speaking to the OP who has wifi cameras already.  Didn't realize the thread was old.

[Blackbird]

https://www.schneider-electric.com/en/product/XUX0ARCTT16/photo-electric-sensor---xux---multi---sn-0..40m---24..240vac-dc---terminals/

I use 3 of these connected to separate I/O Lincs.  I have one covering my garage, entire back yard and front yard.  The beams are setup about waist height. If the beam is broken, I get a notification.  Only false positives I had was a very heavy blizzard, a cat climbing up my fence blocking the reflector and a bird that just happened to pass exactly through the beam(caught both on camera).  Power only required on one side and a reflector on the other (11M range with reflector).  I highly recommend this setup.  Motion sensors are useless if you don't want false positives.

Edited October 10, 2019 by Blackbird

[apostolakisl]

On 4/29/2019 at 11:10 AM, LFMc said:

Well, it finally happened to me. Someone walked up my drive through my open gate, opened my unlocked truck and stole my 8 year old, not recently backed up laptop (probably worth $50 on ebay) that wasn't supposed to be in my truck. Too many coincidences to not get my attention. Ok, I leave my auto gate open, but I always lock my truck (I can blame this one on my wife) and I have a Blue Iris camera pointing right at the truck with a trigger for my yard lights. But he managed to not trigger them. If I boost my sensitivity, I get 100's of false triggers, so I lost my laptop instead. 

Soooo, I have been contemplating way too long on putting in  a driveway sensor that triggers when anything comes thru my open gate, car or pedestrian. To do so, I need a minimum range of 30 feet. I only have power on one side, but if I have too, I can add power to the other. It would just be a lot more work than I want to do. Of course it needs a dry contact, NC or NO to hook up to my Insteon IO link. The advantage of the driveway sensor is to have more accuracy for triggering cameras, lights, etc. with a lot less false alarms.  I assume also this would need to be a photoelectric IR beam and not a buried sensor, besides my concrete drive would limit me from burying it and I think they don't work on pedestrian traffic. 

Does anyone have a driveway sensor suggestion of something that works well for them? 

 

I know this is old, but it got me thinking and I did a little research into Blue Iris.  What you need to do is use the "objection detection" and set it up for zone crossing.  It will allow you to set sensitivity very high and still avoid false alarms.  There is a great youtube video on it.  Basically, you set maybe 3 zones, and a 4th that includes everything.  Then you set it up to only trigger when something travels from one zone to another.  You can set your contrast and size to very sensitive so it catches everything that moves and starts tracking it.  The reason for the "everything" zone is so it continues to track an object while it is in the space between zones.  Otherwise you would have to draw your zones with perfect lines connecting each other, not overlapping and not skipping any pixels.  The everything zone is not one of the zones you include in the from/to movement.  

 

Edited October 10, 2019 by apostolakisl

[UD2)17rrh]

On 10/9/2019 at 8:39 PM, Blackbird said:

https://www.schneider-electric.com/en/product/XUX0ARCTT16/photo-electric-sensor---xux---multi---sn-0..40m---24..240vac-dc---terminals/

I use 3 of these connected to separate I/O Lincs.  I have one covering my garage, entire back yard and front yard.  The beams are setup about waist height. If the beam is broken, I get a notification.  Only false positives I had was a very heavy blizzard, a cat climbing up my fence blocking the reflector and a bird that just happened to pass exactly through the beam(caught both on camera).  Power only required on one side and a reflector on the other (11M range with reflector).  I highly recommend this setup.  Motion sensors are useless if you don't want false positives.

Interesting. Can you tell me more about how you wire these to the I/O linc?  Is it a case of wiring a common terminal to the same on the I/O linc and nc to nc on the I/O linc?  Thanks. 

[Blackbird]

I use the GRND and S of the I/O linc to go to the COM and NC of the sensor.  GND(I/O Linc) to COM(Sensor) and S(I/O Linc) to NC(Sensor).  I used  a transformer for the power of the sensor.  Output:24Vac 750mA

Edited October 18, 2019 by Blackbird

[Blackbird]

Its weatherproof but I built an enclosure for it.